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Russwirral
01 January 2016 22:18:16
so far on the 18z:

Less action to the north, more action to the south - ie High pressure to the north remaining resilient, the jet is digging further into France. At this stage (ie more than 4 day) this is exactly the type of progress i wanted to see tonight . Look at the swathe of High pressure to the north? only a case of when not if - that cold starts to arrive properly onto the UKs shores.

Not seen High Pressure on that scale to the north for a long time.

http://max.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20160101/18/129/h850t850eu.png 
Phil G
01 January 2016 22:18:19
Ian will be "pleased" with this.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1569.gif 

Quantum
01 January 2016 22:20:42

This could all trend back again, but it shows that we are still on a cliff edge, an edge that until now was just slightly larger than the ensemble perturbations. 


 


I think the chance of a cold spell is now back at 50:50, and I still think it will go one way or the other.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
doctormog
01 January 2016 22:20:53

Ian will be "pleased" with this.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1569.gif

Originally Posted by: Phil G 


I doubt it http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2016010118/gfs-2-156.png?18 


idj20
01 January 2016 22:22:52

Ah ballcocks. An IMBY overnight channel storm event if that came off . . . but it is a week away, a long time in forecasting terms:



EDIT: You just beat me to it, Phil. You know me so well.


Folkestone Harbour. 
Saint Snow
01 January 2016 22:22:57

Ian will be "pleased" with this.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1569.gif

Originally Posted by: Phil G 


 


I was thinking, "which Ian is he on about? Ferguson? Brown? Who?"


Then opened the link.


Good look with that one (if it comes off), Mr Johnstone 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Russwirral
Saint Snow
01 January 2016 22:26:11

as a result of a slightly more southen Jet - we now play ball with

http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/charts/gfs/18_153_preciptype_old.png?cb=536


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


 


LOL! Look at that arc of rain over north Merseyside/SW Lancs/Manchester 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Quantum
01 January 2016 22:26:27

This is anything but mild.


Netweather GFS Image


Very seasonal in the north with spells of snow, a mix of hail, rain and sleet showers in the south.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Brian Gaze
01 January 2016 22:27:03

Must be very marginal for the GFS to resolve snow from this:



 



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Phil G
01 January 2016 22:29:55


 


 


I was thinking, "which Ian is he on about? Ferguson? Brown? Who?"


Then opened the link.


Good look with that one (if it comes off), Mr Johnstone 


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Yes, "our" Ian.

Phil G
01 January 2016 22:32:01


Ah ballcocks. An IMBY overnight channel storm event if that came off . . . but it is a week away, a long time in forecasting terms:



EDIT: You just beat me to it, Phil. You know me so well.


Originally Posted by: idj20 


Yes chance it will be gone on the next run Ian. But GFS does seem quite persistent plotting a storm near us around this time.


 

Quantum
01 January 2016 22:32:18


Must be very marginal for the GFS to resolve snow from this:


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


850hpa temps are so misleading, people often just use the -6C benchmark. This is a mistake, -6C is fine under average pressure when the wind is coming from the NW,N or E. But you have to take into account the environment.


1) Low wind speeds: Evaporational cooling will play a role


2) Well below average pressure, 850hpa temperature level is lower so can afford to be warmer.


 


In these circumstances I'd take 2C off which puts as more like an effective 850hpa of -6C which is cold enough for snow. Warm occluded fronts are even worse, if the wind is from the SE bin 850s entirely and rely on other indicators. 


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Brian Gaze
01 January 2016 22:47:35

Here's an interesting chart showing model accuracy since the 1980s.


http://www.emc.ncep.noaa.gov/gmb/STATS/html/aczhist.html



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Jive Buddy
01 January 2016 23:43:47


This could all trend back again, but it shows that we are still on a cliff edge, an edge that until now was just slightly larger than the ensemble perturbations. 


 


I think the chance of a cold spell is now back at 50:50, and I still think it will go one way or the other.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


I think it's more like six of one and half a dozen of the other tbh, but after 15 yrs of model watching, I can say for certain that it will go one way or the other 


It's not over, until the fat Scandy sinks.....

Location: St. Mary Cray, S.E. London border with Kent.
pdiddy
01 January 2016 23:44:50


Here's an interesting chart showing model accuracy since the 1980s.


http://www.emc.ncep.noaa.gov/gmb/STATS/html/aczhist.html



Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Indeed.  Why the up and down nature of the graph?  Is that seasonality - i.e. models do better in summer, less so in winter?

Gandalf The White
01 January 2016 23:53:09


 


Indeed.  Why the up and down nature of the graph?  Is that seasonality - i.e. models do better in summer, less so in winter?


Originally Posted by: pdiddy 


Yes, that's my understanding. I think it's because the forecast accuracy decreases in the summer when patterns become more chaotic, due to the generally weaker jet.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Arbroath 1320
02 January 2016 00:03:04

When you've got a fax chart like this at t96, then anything is possible beyond:

http://www.weathercharts.org/ukmomslp.htm#t96


 


 


 


 


GGTTH
nsrobins
02 January 2016 00:15:59


Here's an interesting chart showing model accuracy since the 1980s.


http://www.emc.ncep.noaa.gov/gmb/STATS/html/aczhist.html


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


No disrespect to some excellent posts these last few days, but that is by far the most interesting graphic I've seen for ages. Two things of note - the gradual upward trend and the persistently superior red line of ECM.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
nsrobins
02 January 2016 00:19:23


When you've got a fax chart like this at t96, then anything is possible beyond:

http://www.weathercharts.org/ukmomslp.htm#t96


 


 


 


 


Originally Posted by: Arbroath 1320 


Anything is possible yes, but some things are less likely 😊


A glance at the 850s for London tells me all I need to know - when the mean does but get below -2 the whole run, it's wellies and raincoats and not snowboots that are needed, at least below the M4.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Russwirral
02 January 2016 00:37:20
ensembles look pretty dire for cold weather until the 7th. very close grouping until then, where had previously been a bit of scatter that held a bit of hope.
Gusty
02 January 2016 05:59:33

Atlantic domination continues. A quick round up of the early model runs, excluding ECM suggests that the Polar Vortex has got bored of its December home near Greenland and has now moved closer to the south of Iceland for the first part of January.


The result is that the advancing and currently very tasty looking cold pool to our ENE



eventually gets overpowered and pushed away NE'wards from whence it came. The jet powers over the UK with some nasty storm systems and relatively high rainfall totals at times in a very mobile set up.


One positive is that the relocation of the PV means that the endless grey TM airmass of December is shunted further south and we stand the chance of some brighter, cleaner days between systems.


After a potentially cold start to the month, especially in Scotland and the NE with a chance of snowfall


Modele GFS - Carte prévisions


it becomes milder everywhere. The risk of frost becomes very small with time too.



Tough times, especially for southern cold weather fans.


 


 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
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Gusty
02 January 2016 06:39:53

The ECM 0z is trickling out and there is a crumb of comfort such that the PV is aligned further south. This prevents the obliteration of the cold pool over Scandinavia. Height rises over Greenland offers some longer term hope for cold air advection from the NE.


We shall see.



Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



Brian Gaze
02 January 2016 07:09:54

GEFS0z looking very poor for the prospects of cold weather, although the op run turns it colder for a few days. 


 



 


Also a height rise from the south looks a distinct possibility and this could cause the rain totals in the north west to stack up again.



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

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