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The Beast from the East
24 February 2016 11:18:12

GFS still keen on the reload. Hopefully the euros will change this evening.


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Azza07
24 February 2016 11:21:34


 


That's not until Friday and will be downgraded.


My question - WHy have the models been so painful inaccurate this winter? I.E When there looks like a potential for a cold spell it always get's downgraded? Is this due to this High pressure in the Azores that won't move? Is this the Jet stream strength why is it? We are all use to downgrades but every run get's downgraded in terms of snow nearer the time? Why are they never upgraded anyone?


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


Good run from the GFS 6z . U never no tallyho it could upgrade ( for once) 😁

nsrobins
24 February 2016 11:30:56


 


Good run from the GFS 6z . U never no tallyho it could upgrade ( for once) 😁


Originally Posted by: Azza07 


It would be a first if it did.


The painful truth for cold weather fans is the air at source (N and NE) just isn't cold enough to overcome modification from ssts a few degrees above average. Instead of -8 or -9 uppers getting it (one parameter of many) this year we need -10 and below and I'm not seeing that at the moment.


The 06GFS is a classic example of this winter's tale - stonking looking synoptics with low pressure and repeat N/NE bursts, but unlikely to deliver widespread wintry conditions as at the surface it's just the wrong side of marginal.
This has been the case on the odd occasions we've had a chance this winter and is likely to continue (based on current situation).


Now, how long will this post take to load and how many repeats will there be?


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
The Beast from the East
24 February 2016 11:32:41

all options shown on the GEFS. High levels of Shannon entropy as the experts would say


Would be good to hear Fergie's latest thoughts


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Gooner
24 February 2016 13:20:41

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/814day.03.gif


Block of sorts is still favoured..................by Noaa anyway


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
24 February 2016 13:22:34

https://nwf.nwstatic.co.uk/forum/uploads/monthly_2016_02/ecm_eps_z500a_nh_11.thumb.png.774b261b77f3afe85246c1e64c9e0541.png


ECM anomaly


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
24 February 2016 13:49:21

The latest Met update has continuing theme of cool / cold unsettled weather, snow for some as fronts push SEwards .


ECM could well have another version later today ?


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


bledur
24 February 2016 14:18:51

It seems the cold spells predicted this winter are only relative to the extraordinarily mild weather which has persisted since early November. It is a cold spell ,but not as we know it.BigGrin


 


Exactly Neil - Glad many of you picked this up - of course we know that there are bound to be some downgrades but the fact that every single one which was initially forecasted or looked a "COLD SPELL" has always been downgraded including January and 2nd Week of February cooler spell. I remember last week the forecast for Sunday was for wintry showers to spread southwards reaching all areas - turns out we had the warmest day of the winter reaching +16.5c here in Exeter and +14c in the south and South east. This Friday was a possibility of rain , sleet and snow for the SW but now Saturday looks bone dry and early next week looks dry and the system for next Tuesday now looks as if it's only going to bring rain/sleet over hills. Anyway it's not a LP it's an occluded front so any of the rain or sleet that does fall will be light and patchy. I know this is off topic but this was what I captured for the week ahead's summary last night: - No mention of any wintry showers let alone snow!?


 


I know this should be in the moan/rant thread but just adding to this:


Earlier this week this was forecasted for Saturday and Sunday: - Despite no realy blocking up north it still had the potential to give something for all of us. But this has taken a more southerly track.



 


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 

some faraway beach
24 February 2016 16:41:36
Fergusson's info never tries to "predict weather". What he does offer is the Met Office's thoughts based on the ensembles of models to which J Public does not have access.

Basically the complete opposite in every way of the reasons Seasonal Bounty is flailing his or her handbag at him.
2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
The Beast from the East
24 February 2016 17:17:24

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2016022412/gfs-0-120.png?12


Interesting GFS


Attempts to build a scandi high, doesn't come off this time, but comes back later


UKMO not good though


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
doctormog
24 February 2016 17:17:53
I would value Ian's input in this thread more than the vast majority of other posters (and I certainly include myself in that other category!). He doesn't have a time machine or crystal ball but he does have many years of experience, professionalism and a very clear concise manner of writing which is easy to understand and balanced in terms of probabilities.

Anyway back on topic and the 12z runs so far continue to paint a cool outlook albeit with limited snow risk.
Essan
24 February 2016 17:41:59

I would value Ian's input in this thread more than the vast majority of other posters (and I certainly include myself in that other category!). He doesn't have a time machine or crystal ball but he does have many years of experience, professionalism and a very clear concise manner of writing which is easy to understand and balanced in terms of probabilities.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 



    And he also provides some useful insights into current MetO thinking



Meanwhile, I see GFS 12 has swapped its high and low pressure at the end of next week ....    Southerlies replace northerlies!


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Gooner
24 February 2016 17:47:57

Cool / cold into March for many from GFS 12z


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
24 February 2016 17:50:07




    And he also provides some useful insights into current MetO thinking



Meanwhile, I see GFS 12 has swapped its high and low pressure at the end of next week ....    Southerlies replace northerlies!


Originally Posted by: Essan 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn26417.gif


Cold feeling


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


doctormog
24 February 2016 18:24:43
A chilly outlook into spring on the GFS ensembles with chart above indicating the warmest day in terms of t850hPa at least

http://meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?ext=1&lat=57.2&lon=-2.3 

http://meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?ext=1&x=306&y=141&ville=Londres 
Gooner
24 February 2016 18:28:07

O/T  Temps from A Deakin for tomorrow IMBY is 4c .............alot lower than was talked about at the start of the week


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


The Beast from the East
24 February 2016 19:11:12

ECM still flat, but an improvement on the 00z


GFS control interesting


http://modeles7.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/runs/2016022412/gens-0-1-252.png


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Gooner
24 February 2016 20:02:28


Plenty of support for the control - infact anyone's guess after March 2nd, cooler - colder looks favourite


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
24 February 2016 22:51:33

FI but certainly some blocked set ups still about




Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
24 February 2016 23:37:42

From IF , who has more of an insight to things than most


 


 The expected pattern into early March heralds prospect of repeated bouts of Am incursions, much akin to the current one, with risk of deeper cyclonicity passing to S/SE of UK at times. 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
24 February 2016 23:39:56

Again from IF


The snow issue is peripheral as far as I'm concerned. The key point of interest here is the colder look into early March: anyone seeing 'mildness' stamped over output is misreading it. I think one issue here is perhaps folk looking solely at EC DET runs, which need proper examination alongside the ensembles. Note for example the 12z DET for Reading... then compare with the EC parallel (9km) run, which is verifying highest of any model. Note the EC-P deterministic running virtually through ENS median (contra operational 16k model). Clear signal for turning chillier again later next week. As for snow, well, I'll let others stress about that...!


https://nwf.nwstatic.co.uk/forum/uploads/monthly_2016_02/Screenshot_2016-02-24-23-23-36-1.png.00b3f683db18abc5d7501a4273342270.png


 


https://nwf.nwstatic.co.uk/forum/uploads/monthly_2016_02/Screenshot_2016-02-24-23-21-37-1.png.a89f65d5cb93c072a8d7ab4ab84b7e23.png


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
24 February 2016 23:45:31

And some more from the informative Ian F


Well, take the two 12z clusters here (to illustrate where EC goes directly beyond the T+240 DET frames cited by others earlier on the thread)... a general rinse-repeat of forecast shenanigans this weekend. And more could follow. 


https://nwf.nwstatic.co.uk/forum/uploads/monthly_2016_02/Screenshot_2016-02-24-23-38-20-1.thumb.png.64a4678fa144aa19f223b0c9751c8bf9.png


 


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Chunky Pea
24 February 2016 23:55:51


 



Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
25 February 2016 00:08:01

What I have Observed and noted is this:


The UKMO is led often by the GFS at 120 and 144hr, but to be honest they shake with their scores on some occasions but beyond that only we have GFS gives us pretty good very often every winter/ spring better idea of what we will get more often correct after 120hrs.


I can clearly say they boast little difference in guessing outcomes at 120-144, they both overdo the depth and intensity and temperature, then backtrack - this shows up in the 168-192hr time frame!!, They tend to compete equally but spotting trends GFS FI leads by a mile...


We have had a very busy winter Jetstream wise, and the gushing out of predicted cold pools and replaced with just neither mild nor very cold setup has delivered a very fair balance with enough windy wet weather some bad, but it like the winters gone - since 1995 I would say, that it was very often colder before and in some periods after it has swayed up and down between cold and snowy to very rainy and stormy to often less very cold and frosty.


The Weather Forecasters and us the Public now are carrying on facing this average less cold less frosty and less snowy winters- this is flowing through across all planet with month by month and year on year rises in Global Mean Temperature and the falls are there they tend to occur during La Nina's - We have had a lot of rises and hence it has changed our current forecast enthusiasm as it is often not much to explain any interesting bits as they are not the regular occurrence - I miss the long cold spells with severe frosts and below freezing max temperatures.  


I look at the Arctic Ice Maps coverage and regularly note in my head that it reads to me saying the cover has sustained in Winter and Spring- that's good but early Summer to Mid Autumn is a long melt period ahem (bearing in mid that after Mid-March the Arctic sea ice melts only slowly hence we often get cold March months(half the time with the other half (50-60%) of which warm mild occurs 30%, other 15-20% being average lol..., but I accept that the ice reaches minimum in around late August- Early to mid September (Varies) but it starts building by Mid October or early November and by March middle it reache it's maximum.


It starts to melt rapidly from about June onwards- The Svalbard Snow Capped Mountains I have watched their webcam for several years now- sorry for being O/T, but from Late October it gets snow Covered!!, and that starts melting come late May or 2nd week June( varies two or three weeks...).


The UKMO and GFS Model forecast I comment here on is often a very good set of chapters and the boring uninteresting useless cool weather occurs when it not supposed to!.


We continue to see our periodic swings every 3-4 years such as waiting for a proper snow event, that does sometimes take a few or a couple years be absent but then I have seen in 2004-2011 that period plenty of short snow cover episodes have occurred.


A lot of this disruption to the norm is because of the Sceuro Bartlett and Azores High and Constant cool not cold Zonal flow, and the NAD Shutdowns have due to recent now fading El Niño not as cold and snow as we had in the Aforementioned in this mentioned snow events that I recall having settled for some 1 to 2 days maximum only for this case in my location.


But regular notable air frosts can and still and Will Do Happrn as Wanstead Park is close by last night it dropped to -3.8, I checked the report at 07:40 a.m., and right now and since 10:30 p.m. It has fallen back to -2.5 deg. C already, there is low frost hollow close to the up and down area - with Wanstead Park Golf Course dotted about in area both at hollow and at upper part near that hollow...


😆😄💤🌤🌫


Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
Gooner
25 February 2016 07:58:35

http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/charts/gefs/gefsens850birmingham0.png?cb


No sign of a warm up


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


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