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Maunder Minimum
29 November 2017 08:51:40


Even I'm feeling some general optimism, particularly for around 6-9th December although that does rely heavily on GFS ensembles although not too worried about UKMO which isn't really in range yet.


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


I shouldn't worry too much about UKMO at the moment - it shows the alignment which delivers down the track - the Atlantic LP further south and pushing WAA up towards western Greenland. It appears that ECM is the model which is not fully in line with developments.


New world order coming.
Rob K
29 November 2017 09:16:53


 


Looks like a good alignment to me - that will build the Greenie HP for sure.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Using the "Live Compare" function there the low is in almost exactly the same spot but is less deep on the UKMO. The GFS has it even deeper if anything but it doesn't break through like the ECM does. 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Tractor Boy
29 November 2017 09:32:13

Even though the ECM flattens out the pattern in the mid-term the op still evolves into something with interest...


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/ECMOPEU00_240_1.png


 


From scanning through the models, one gets that feeling that whatever the jet or the heights over Europe do, areas in the northern latitudes just keep trying to suck blobs of high pressure towards the pole. Even some of those milder GFS ENS have huge areas of northern blocking, albeit coupled with heights over southern Europe. It just feels different, not trying to reset to zonality...but with amplification abound. (Here endeth this highly technical post)


Dave
Farndale, North York Moors
David M Porter
29 November 2017 09:53:38

Even though ECM seems to be somewhat at odds with the other models this morning, it still doesn't appear to be an overly mild run to my eyes at least.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
The Beast from the East
29 November 2017 10:22:29

not such a good northerly on the 06z. looks like it will sink. Cant seem to build proper heights over Greenland. This is the norm in the modern era



"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
roger63
29 November 2017 10:25:55


 


I would have thought that ECM 240 chart would lead to a decent northerly. 


Meanwhike the GFS op run ends the northerly rather sooner but eventually serves up a proper easterly at the end! Lots of eye candy but we are still clueless. 


Originally Posted by: Rob K 

Rob you've picked the highlights Cant help a little excitement!I'd settle for a couple  of days of heavy snow.However it still seems more likely that we will have the classic pattern of early December cold then a breakdown to mild Atlantic before Xmas 

The Beast from the East
29 November 2017 10:26:31

a cold blast but not extreme



"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
tallyho_83
29 November 2017 10:29:07
http://old.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten/fsavneur.html 

Can anyone get the above working after 240 hours? - it seems to go back to July's output model.
Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


The Beast from the East
29 November 2017 10:29:23

Greece and Italy gets the action as usual. The danger is always the pattern sinks and shifts east as we get closer. Another common theme of modern times



"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Russwirral
29 November 2017 10:34:29


Greece and Italy gets the action as usual. The danger is always the pattern sinks and shifts east as we get closer. Another common theme of modern times



 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


 


Aye - the pressure to the west is more of a mid to south orientation, rather than the stella GH variety we have seen on recent runs.


 


Plenty of time for change, but i would say theres more likely hood of this going to Turkey etc based on recent years behavior


Maunder Minimum
29 November 2017 10:35:43


Greece and Italy gets the action as usual. The danger is always the pattern sinks and shifts east as we get closer. Another common theme of modern times


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Couldn't disagree more - the UK stays on the cold side throughout and this is no classic sinker, since the block remains.


It is an odd run though and leaves us in a chilly no-mans land. Just another variation of the theme though, which is one of major blocking. The 850s over Greenland become insanely warm compared with the normal situation. Yes, the States get a cold plunge, but far to the west of the normal situation, so the Atlantic jet does not get fired up as usually happens when the cold spills out of eastern Canada into the north Atlantic.


N.B. If this run came off, North Dakota would become as cold as Siberia. Crazy even Kansas becomes Siberian. Huge plunge of cold air into the Mid-West.


New world order coming.
Rob K
29 November 2017 10:40:37
Yes, the Atlantic doesn't really get through even out to 240 (which we know changes every 6 hours) so it's just a variation on the same theme.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Rob K
29 November 2017 10:41:59

http://old.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten/fsavneur.html

Can anyone get the above working after 240 hours? - it seems to go back to July's output model.

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


That's the old site, it hasn't worked for months! use the TWO chart viewer at https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx


or the Meteociel at http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php


 


Both let you mouse over to change charts.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
roger63
29 November 2017 11:37:05

Yes, the Atlantic doesn't really get through even out to 240 (which we know changes every 6 hours) so it's just a variation on the same theme.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


GEFS 06h shows around 40% of Ens with a milder westerly flow -but given the huge spread more chopping and changing to come. METO forecast suggests cold holding on until mid December.

Hungry Tiger
29 November 2017 11:46:42

There is plenty of intense cold air in the Northern Hemisphere - Far more than usual.


Just heard that Oymyakon in Eastern Siberia was -60C last night. Amazing for November - even for that part of the world.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Brian Gaze
29 November 2017 11:50:59

GEFS 06z update. Still very difficult to make a call on next week.



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Gooner
29 November 2017 12:10:13

Control gives us a very interesting scenario later on in the run


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


moomin75
29 November 2017 12:15:27


Control gives us a very interesting scenario later on in the run


Originally Posted by: Gooner 

The control seems to be consistently showing something interesting. The general feel of the models remains interesting too.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Arbroath 1320
29 November 2017 12:17:00
This morning's GFS runs suggest a rinse and repeat next week (with respect to this week) with a milder weekend in between. So going by GFS 6z, mostly cold and dry for the next week or 2, with the possibility of more Atlantic influenced weather from mid-December driven on by an Azores High and invigorated jet stream - pretty much in line with the Met long term outlook. It could all change of course which is part of the fascination!
GGTTH
Gooner
29 November 2017 12:21:05


The control seems to be consistently showing something interesting. The general feel of the models remains interesting too.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Lets see if pans out then


 


This is miles better than previous years it has to be said


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


tallyho_83
29 November 2017 12:27:08
I wonder when all the seasonal models METO, JAMSTEC, CANSIPS, CFSv2 etc etc will go cold!?

I was just watching Gav's 13th Christmas update and the CFSv2 model run shows persistent zonal westerlies and has done for a while now- it's like it just wants to keep throwing LP systems into the UK and doesn't show any blocking and only transient ridge of HP - very brief.




Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Rob K
29 November 2017 12:35:12


GEFS 06z update. Still very difficult to make a call on next week.



Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


 


The cold cluster seems to be getting less and less, but still the op and control are taking that route. Clearly on a knife edge.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
tallyho_83
29 November 2017 12:36:07

Middle of next week looks interesting if this comes off!? - Perhaps a thunder snow event?
Shows huge temperature gradient across the UK. Temps next Wed start off at 6-8c in the south but fall to -1c to 0c by 6pm that evening!?


 


Netweather GFS Image


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Russwirral
29 November 2017 13:15:47


GEFS 06z update. Still very difficult to make a call on next week.



Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


 


checking the temperature@2m  profile its clear that probably alot of that scatter is probably down to UK being under clear skies/HP as it looks to be on the whole - quite to very chilly.  Avg temp around 4*c for Liverpool


 


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


 


In my eyes this is classic "models cant deal with a blocking high"... but on the whole - thats what will dictate our weather for the next week or 2, rather than historically being the dictated by Low pressure systems


Chunky Pea
29 November 2017 15:09:30

This morning's EC15 still hinting at a more typical SW flow becoming established after day 12, but with a huge amount of scatter, so confidence is such a outcome would be lower than normal (not that it would be very high that far out at the best of times).


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022

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