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DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
26 January 2018 07:17:43

Wednesday 7th Feb for S-day? But keep watching, I's sure it will change


https://www.netweather.tv/charts-and-data/snow-risk


 


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Rob K
26 January 2018 07:58:26
Looking at the GFS ensemble the start of the huge scatter is still the first day or two of February, after which anything could happen. It'll be another two or three days at least before we get a decent idea of where things are heading in the first week of Feb, I think.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Whiteout
26 January 2018 08:26:23


 


It's worth noting that the GFS evolution is rather similar in many ways to that which preceded the 2010 cold spell - which was signalled a long way out (think 10 days+) and eventually came off.


In that instance, the models showed repeated warm advection bursts heading due north, acting in effect as giant waves to mess up the jet stream. Each one made it wobble just a bit more, then bam - an amplified Rossby wave set up and brought most of the UK a remarkable cold spell.


This time around, there's also repeated northwards advection.


The first such attempt has already happened and is in the process of toppling:



There's some rippling of the jet, followed by a northwards burst on day 6: (Note: not due north this time, but enough to draw the Azores High northwards)



That also fails, but the next attempt is an even greater northwards push, on day 10:



This also topples, but in doing so draws a break-away chunk of that upper low SW'wards, which is then trapped. Like a soapy bubble blown across bathwater, the high can't go anywhere else but east - and gives us a textbook Scandi High and easterly setup.


Over on NW, they'd doubtless be going on about wave-breaking and angular momentum pepping up, but you don't need any of that jargon to see what's going on. In effect, it's just like a seesaw with a heavy rock on one end: you push once, nothing happens; push a bit harder and it wobbles, push even harder and the thing flips entirely. And once it flips, it's stuck there for a while!


The key to this is seeing what other models do with that push of heights around 240. GEM doesn't do much (it instead propels it ENE'wards, rather than NNE), whereas ECM this morning had a similar evolution to GFS.


Bear in mind this "push to the north" thing has already started - for once, this isn't entirely pie in the sky stuff, more a case of seeing if the pattern can repeat with increasing amplitude as per ECM/GFS, or whether in the end it all gets shoved away eastwards before it can make the jet kink enough...


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Hi Darren, in all my years on TWO that is one of the most informative posts I have ever read - thank you


Home/Work - Dartmoor
240m/785 ft asl
idj20
26 January 2018 08:37:11


 


Hi Darren, in all my years on TWO that is one of the most informative posts I have ever read - thank you


Originally Posted by: Whiteout 



I second that too, it is a well written article which painted a good mental picture of what could happen. Still feels like we are chasing a rainbow with regards to deep cold/real snow coming our way, though.


Folkestone Harbour. 
Lionel Hutz
26 January 2018 08:45:28




I second that too, it is a well written article which painted a good mental picture of what could happen. Still feels like we are chasing a rainbow with regards to deep cold/real snow coming our way, though.


Originally Posted by: idj20 


One thing that I always value about Darren is that he always remains realistic in his analysis. He doesn't get carried away. As you say, he details what could happen but there's no hype and no promises - just analysis that is very clearly explained.


Lionel Hutz
Nr.Waterford , S E Ireland
68m ASL



hobensotwo
26 January 2018 08:56:17

GEFS 0z are split roughly even on the evolution of a cold spell as we enter in February. Of course we have been here before many times and there remains the high risk that we will chase the rainbow for the next 5 days and then it will disappear. Here are the ensembles for London.


Originally Posted by: Karl Guille 

">http://modeles7.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/runs/2018012600/graphe3_1000_310.8399963378906_135.02000427246094___.gif


Yup, a bit of a cold cluster developing there.


Both Control and OP choosing the cold route.


Hopfully this morning will build on that theme, and not back track.

Solar Cycles
26 January 2018 09:09:32
A week away from model watching and I see the eye candy remains out in FI, which surprisingly is another Easterly. 😂😂😂😂
nsrobins
26 January 2018 09:44:31
https://www.weerplaza.nl/15daagseverwachting/?r=midden&type=eps_pluim 

There must be some easterly options in the EC ensembles going by the De Bilts - a decent cold dp cluster developing.
Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Gandalf The White
26 January 2018 10:08:22

https://www.weerplaza.nl/15daagseverwachting/?r=midden&type=eps_pluim

There must be some easterly options in the EC ensembles going by the De Bilts - a decent cold dp cluster developing.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


If you scroll down to the wind direction chart you can see the cluster of Easterlies starting to develop on 1st with a small group joining on 5th. Still very much a minority outcome with westerlies dominating.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Sasa
  • Sasa
  • Advanced Member
26 January 2018 10:14:59
T126, I doubt this low will slide down the channel to affect the SE corner but rather the usual track and run away towards Scandinavia allowing the high to drift eastwards and collapse over SE Europe. I think this would just give us a 1 perhaps two day northerly with usual suspects benefitting from some snow.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=1&model=gfs&var=1&run=6&time=126&lid=OP&h=0&mv=0&tr=3#mapref 
Kingston Upon Thames
Chiltern Blizzard
26 January 2018 10:50:51
Another very cold op from GFS in FI, especially for the east. Not quite a classic easterly but close.
Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
David M Porter
26 January 2018 11:05:16

What the 00z and 06z GFS runs have shown for around 10 days from now is very reminiscent of what the set-up that was responsible for the snowy spell over northern parts of the UK last week. ECM doesn't seem to be so keen on this idea at the moment, at least not yet.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Rob K
26 January 2018 11:09:00

Another very cold op from GFS in FI, especially for the east. Not quite a classic easterly but close.

Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 


 


Yes, the pressure charts don't look that inspiring but the air is suprisingly cold on recent GFS runs, with -10s getting into the east even without a proper easterly.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Tim A
26 January 2018 11:11:32


What the 00z and 06z GFS runs have shown for around 10 days from now is very reminiscent of what the set-up that was responsible for the snowy spell over northern parts of the UK last week. ECM doesn't seem to be so keen on this idea at the moment, at least not yet.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


I agree a succession of NW outbreaks looks the most likely option but GFS always seems to over amplify things so caution needed. 


I am going up to Loch Lomond area 5 Feb so would much rather cold NW winds.   An easterly would probably produce good sunny conditions up there but I would be gutted if I missed a Feb 91 type easterly here . Very unlikely I would say. 


Tim
NW Leeds
187m asl

 My PWS 
Charmhills
26 January 2018 11:59:20

A chilly set of 06z ems for the East Midlands after the milder blip has passed through.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
NickR
26 January 2018 12:11:15


A chilly set of 06z ems for the East Midlands after the milder blip has passed through.


Originally Posted by: Charmhills 


Only for the East Midlands?


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
Chiltern Blizzard
26 January 2018 12:13:27


A chilly set of 06z ems for the East Midlands after the milder blip has passed through.


Originally Posted by: Charmhills 


Yes, 7, including op, dip to or below -10c.... quite conisistent.  Based on this, I’d say about a 20% chance of  a proper easterly.... Definitely still an outsider, but not the <5% chance that’s usually the case.


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
Charmhills
26 January 2018 12:23:01


 


Only for the East Midlands?


Originally Posted by: NickR 


Yes, given its based in Central England.


If its cold in Central England, its likely to be cold for the majority of the UK.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Gandalf The White
26 January 2018 12:34:18

ECM 00z ensemble shows the op was one of the mildest options at days 9 & 10



The main cluster suggests a possible 3-4 cold spell, beyond which a clear less cold (average temps) develops.


Clearly there’s uncertainty around the position of the block.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Scotty92
26 January 2018 12:35:27

The general consensus of opinion is colder weather on the cards for the early part of February, still a lot of uncertainty. The lunchtime ensembles offering various possibilities into the 2nd week of Feb. 


 


Gandalf The White
26 January 2018 12:36:34


 


Yes, given its based in Central England.


If its cold in Central England, its likely to be cold for the majority of the UK.


Originally Posted by: Charmhills 


I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone make that assertion before.  What you say is possible but certainly not a solid indicator, I don’t think. 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Snow Hoper
26 January 2018 12:37:04

Hope I'm wrong on this, but this feels like another one on those 'what might have been' moments. Got a feeling the next shot of cold in the US will scupper our chances again.


Going to war over religion is like killing each other to see who has the better imaginary friend.


Home : Thorndon, Suffolk.
Gandalf The White
26 January 2018 12:42:39


Hope I'm wrong on this, but this feels like another one on those 'what might have been' moments. Got a feeling the next shot of cold in the US will scupper our chances again.


Originally Posted by: Snow Hoper 


That’s always a possibility but it’s the jetstream pattern that matters, I think, not just the possible cyclogenesis.  


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


picturesareme
26 January 2018 12:48:05


 


Yes, given its based in Central England.


If its cold in Central England, its likely to be cold for the majority of the UK.


Originally Posted by: Charmhills 


Bizarre comment.

Karl Guille
26 January 2018 13:20:26
Ensembles remaining fairly consistent but are nowhere near the reliable timeframe or a majority cold cluster as we speak.
These are the ensembles IMBY!
http://modeles7.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/runs/2018012606/graphe3_1000_218.0399932861328_248.6199951171875___.gif 
St. Sampson
Guernsey

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