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Chiltern Blizzard
25 January 2018 17:50:41
Shame there nothing as good as the Op in the ensembles, but nonetheless, 7 dip to or below -10c so not bad.
Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
25 January 2018 17:54:45

The GFS and GEM and the ICON and UKMO are showing a good spells of wintry showers and cold Northwest winds with SE tracking to Europe NW and N W and NE Europe, pushing SE and also affecting UK and Europe.


The Disrupted NW And N Atlantic Jetstream and also Central N and Western N Atlantic blocking High NE Europe and Arctic Norwegian Sea High Pressure And at times Greenland High looks well established as well.


I await with relaxed AWE and give a wish that the UKMO ECMWF And GFS continue dragging cold SE tracking Low Pressure.


For now take it easy, Nextweek looks cold all week and so does the following 5 days ahem. NW then North And East NE flow, not bad so far but still far ahead. Next week looks much better especially Wednesday Thursday.


๐Ÿ˜€๐Ÿ‘โ›ˆโ˜”๏ธโ„๏ธ๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜‰.


Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge.ย 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
polarwind
25 January 2018 18:08:53

Maybe it will happen and you never know it might even turn out colder with an easterly feed!
Better than seeing a 200hr SW flow at this time of year. Would it count as a mid winter easterly if it happened and would it reset a modern winter era timescale!!

Originally Posted by: ballamar 


How do you mean? 


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Dave,Derby
Brian Gaze
25 January 2018 18:18:28

The only reasonable conclusion from this set of postage stamps is:


1) High pressure is likely to be influential


2) There's a better than average chance of cold conditions


3) Cold could filter in from the north or east but a mild outcome remains quite likely



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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Surrey John
25 January 2018 18:40:09

Direct hit with this one.

Would be my snowiest week for probably 30 years. But at 10 days out I must keep a level head as its all virtual at this stage.

Originally Posted by: hobensotwo 


 


As always we need to wait, I normally sit on the sidelines, but a variation of this scenario keeps coming up somewhere in the ensembles, and is not just a single ensemble.  Experience says good chance of this growing.  The alternatives are flip-flopping all over the place with each run which clearly means the models haven’t got it nailed.  


The odd thing (to me) is they sometimes see this 10-14 days out, then seem to lose it in 7-10 day range, then suddenly seem to realise it is happening.   I suspect the program says low probability in the 7-10 range, thus discounts it, whereas the 10-14 day is more free to go with any scenario.


 


Bradford on Avon, Wiltshire
35m ASL
Whether Idle
25 January 2018 18:50:45

You don't need  bubble bath, or "mounting torques" to know that until there is cross model agreement at t96 you can forget it with winter easterlies.  The last 21 years attest to that.


Meanwhile some useable weather in prospect this weekend will allow me a window of opportunity to tidy up the garden.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Nordic Snowman
25 January 2018 19:02:51

You know winter fatigue has set in when a -13C 850hPa easterly on GFS barely raises an eyebrow ๐Ÿ™‚

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Indeed.


I know I am stating the obvious but I (and many others) will not raise an eyebrow for many more days and many more runs. I would say that the chances are next to nothing right now and even if the GEFS shows increasing support in the days ahead, it really has to be inside the 4-5 day range for a raised eyebrow. Not the case for zonal but for a true E'ly, it really must be within a very short range because we all know that our default weather is from W to E.


Bjorli, Norway

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JACKO4EVER
25 January 2018 19:17:00

I really like Darren’s bubble in the bath simile - much better than CODs and MFIs and the like.
From a simple perspective, I believe the potential for a ‘proper’ easterly has taken another uptick this evening.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


yes an excellent post by Darren and very informative for an amateur like myself. Thanks๐Ÿ‘

Shropshire
25 January 2018 19:42:57


You don't need  bubble bath, or "mounting torques" to know that until there is cross model agreement at t96 you can forget it with winter easterlies.  The last 21 years attest to that.


Meanwhile some useable weather in prospect this weekend will allow me a window of opportunity to tidy up the garden.


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Absolutely, we know what to look for and most importantly , view from past experience of how these set-ups can go wrong. A safer bet of course is cold and snow for Greece /Turkey and MLB for us 


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Chiltern Blizzard
25 January 2018 19:54:42


 


Absolutely, we know what to look for and most importantly , view from past experience of how these set-ups can go wrong. A safer bet of course is cold and snow for Greece /Turkey and MLB for us 


Originally Posted by: Shropshire 


a la 12z ECM!


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
JACKO4EVER
25 January 2018 20:05:44


 


a la 12z ECM!


Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 


quelle surprise 

David M Porter
25 January 2018 20:08:09


You don't need  bubble bath, or "mounting torques" to know that until there is cross model agreement at t96 you can forget it with winter easterlies.  The last 21 years attest to that.


Meanwhile some useable weather in prospect this weekend will allow me a window of opportunity to tidy up the garden.


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Didn't the early Feb 2009 cold spell come about as a result of an easterly, albeit not a long-lasting one?


I could be wrong here and it is 9 years ago after all, but my recollection is that the models were in fairly good agreement beforehand about a pressure rise over Scandinavia towards the end of Jan/ start of Feb 2009.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Hippydave
25 January 2018 20:18:32

Interesting to watch ECM and GFS gradually diverging from T96 onwards. 


Lots needs to go right for the GFS solution to come off, which if nothing else the last 6 weeks or so of model watching would suggest is going to be a tall order.


The GFS ens have also been wobbling in terms of the cold signal from run to run, with the 12z having wandered back to less cold solutions, albeit still a reasonable number.


The HP signal does remain strong though so a more settled regime seems increasingly likely. 


All still to play for from a cold POV and I guess if there's going to be a month the easterly does finally come off February is more likely to be it, given the tendency for the Atlantic to settle down at this time


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
Karl Guille
25 January 2018 20:34:33


">http://modeles7.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/runs/2018012506/graphe3_1000_218.94000244140625_248.4199981689453___.gif

Originally Posted by: hobensotwo 


Are they ens for Channel Islands?


Good support up until ~1st then after that its place your bets!



Yes, here are the Jersey ones from the 12z.


 Diagramme GEFS


Of course with an easterly, you could get snow in Jersey with 850hPA as high as -2!


St. Sampson
Guernsey
Hungry Tiger
25 January 2018 20:37:11


 


It's worth noting that the GFS evolution is rather similar in many ways to that which preceded the 2010 cold spell - which was signalled a long way out (think 10 days+) and eventually came off.


In that instance, the models showed repeated warm advection bursts heading due north, acting in effect as giant waves to mess up the jet stream. Each one made it wobble just a bit more, then bam - an amplified Rossby wave set up and brought most of the UK a remarkable cold spell.


This time around, there's also repeated northwards advection.


The first such attempt has already happened and is in the process of toppling:



There's some rippling of the jet, followed by a northwards burst on day 6: (Note: not due north this time, but enough to draw the Azores High northwards)



That also fails, but the next attempt is an even greater northwards push, on day 10:



This also topples, but in doing so draws a break-away chunk of that upper low SW'wards, which is then trapped. Like a soapy bubble blown across bathwater, the high can't go anywhere else but east - and gives us a textbook Scandi High and easterly setup.


Over on NW, they'd doubtless be going on about wave-breaking and angular momentum pepping up, but you don't need any of that jargon to see what's going on. In effect, it's just like a seesaw with a heavy rock on one end: you push once, nothing happens; push a bit harder and it wobbles, push even harder and the thing flips entirely. And once it flips, it's stuck there for a while!


The key to this is seeing what other models do with that push of heights around 240. GEM doesn't do much (it instead propels it ENE'wards, rather than NNE), whereas ECM this morning had a similar evolution to GFS.


Bear in mind this "push to the north" thing has already started - for once, this isn't entirely pie in the sky stuff, more a case of seeing if the pattern can repeat with increasing amplitude as per ECM/GFS, or whether in the end it all gets shoved away eastwards before it can make the jet kink enough...


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Excellent descriptions and commentary there.


Gavin S. FRmetS.
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Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
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Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
25 January 2018 20:56:32


yes an excellent post by Darren and very informative for an amateur like myself. Thanks๐Ÿ‘


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 

  Agreed!  Darren is one of the posters I look forward to hearing from the most.  He always explains his reasoning and in more understandable terms.


Thank you Darren!


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
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Arcus
25 January 2018 21:17:41


 


quelle surprise 


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


To paraphrase Tel-boy in Heautontimoroumenos, "I am a [model watcher]; nothing [related to models] is strange to me"


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
25 January 2018 21:18:12

Tonight, it appears that Thursday and Friday next week the location track and direction of NW Atlantic PV Low is up for grabs.


There is a link to Norwegian High on Thursday 1st Feb. But PV Low from NE Canada joins over Greenland with the NE USA Nova Scotia SE of NF far NW then far N Atlantic Greenland combined Low’s merge, at T168-192hrs. We see the 31 Jan - 1st Feb Cold NW flow over the UK track to East and N Europe meeting a Low in ENE Europe, while the Norwegian High unlinked from the Central N Atlantic High, And a UK Atlantic High ridges over us turning it less cold, Deep Low over Greenland, two join up there and move east to NW Iceland et all.


๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ™๐Ÿ‘.  Thanks Retron for your well explained post re: 2009-10. 12z GFS looks exactly same as the Cold v Cold snowy spell of 8 day period cold spell Feb. 1991.๐Ÿ˜€.


 


Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge.ย 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
Saint Snow
25 January 2018 21:23:06


< snip >


Originally Posted by: Retron 


 


I love these sort of posts that you (and James, GW, etc) make. Simple language which makes it so clear (not some knob-measuring contest about how many snazzy phrases you can squeeze in, a-la a certain other site)


I know you have far less time on your hands than you once did, and I'm guessing it takes a lot more to get your juices flowing now you're a grown up ) but it'd be great to see more of this kind of posting.



 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
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LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
25 January 2018 22:34:13

Eh, dear Model Watchers.


It appears that I misobserved the silly odd 12z GFS Run, it was clearly being Eye Candy from as early as 120hrs Tuesday 30th January 2018.


I really think that we are better off appraising 12z ECMWF instead.


The GFS versus ECMWF world competition or Europe and N Atlantic guises.  I’ll ignore today’s 12z GFS as it in fact looks very odd indeed. UKMO 120 And 144 And ECMWF are much better than it!!.


Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge.ย 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
Whether Idle
25 January 2018 22:47:24

I believe this is a Murr Sausage here, in some form:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=252&mode=0


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
backtobasics
25 January 2018 23:06:38
Looks more like some cock and ball story to me ๐Ÿ˜› oh do I mean bull ...
tallyho_83
26 January 2018 00:59:08

Potential still there for a cold or bitterly cold easterly to develop around or after 1st week of Feb:


after 1st week:



 



 



 



 


 



 



 



 



 



 



 



 



 



Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Karl Guille
26 January 2018 05:47:49
GEFS 0z are split roughly even on the evolution of a cold spell as we enter in February. Of course we have been here before many times and there remains the high risk that we will chase the rainbow for the next 5 days and then it will disappear. Here are the ensembles for London.
http://modeles7.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/runs/2018012600/graphe3_1000_310.8399963378906_135.02000427246094___.gif 
St. Sampson
Guernsey
nsrobins
26 January 2018 07:16:07
Things gone off the boil a bit today but for those craving eastern promise these wobbles are all part of the chase, or sometimes the start of the slope - which is the NWPโ€™s way of saying โ€˜you didnโ€™t think I was serious, did you?!โ€™
Give it a few more days.
Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO

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