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Andy Woodcock
18 August 2013 11:41:09


Awful output this morning


After days of looking like we'd strike lucky with our holiday in the Lakes, there's been a massive back-track on the models in the last 24 hours.


From dry, warm & sunny to showers & longer spells of rain.


 


Friggin typical.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Hmmm, not sure about that, despite yesterdays MetO MRF that indicated good weather south and bad weather north this mornings sudden change in the models would reverse that split and Cumbria would could be best placed under a easterly flow.


I cant believe the change in the outlook today particularly for the south and GFS is horrendous, where the hell did that low come from and why is the MetO MRF so wide off the mark?


Questions, questions??


I blame the 'Daily Express' as its headline yesterday screamed 'HEATWAVE SET TO ROAR BACK'


Andy


Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
Andy Woodcock
18 August 2013 11:44:48


Good morning. Here is the weekly detailed report on the midnight outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Sunday August 18th 2013.


The General Situation 5-7 days. The models currently show a Westerly flow across the UK carrying a mix of sunshine and showers for all today. The flow weakens over the next 24 hours as pressure rises from the South with just the North at risk of showers tomorrow while the South stays dry and bright. On Tuesday and Wednesday a small depression is shown to move NE across Scotland carrying rain at times across the North and West. This now looks it could spill further South and East on Wednesday with all areas under a lot of cloud with chiefly light rain at times. By Thursday the weather should of become warmer and drier for 24-48 hrs and although there could be quite large amounts of cloud at times across the UK some good sunny spells will develop and it will feel warm or very warm locally. Very late in the week and more likely over the weekend the weather will slide downhill again, this time from the South or SW as Low pressure develops there with thundery rain or showers edging slowly North and East across some parts of the UK in varying degrees next weekend.


GFS shows the Low complex further north to the west of the UK making the breakdown more widespread and affecting most of the UK by next Monday as it slowly moves East over the UK with many areas then becoming cooler and drier again for most of the extended range with High pressure back down to the SW with a tenuous ridge over the UK. NW winds look the most likely option with a lot of dry weather but some occasional rain in the North with temperatures close to average.


The GFS Ensembles show strong support for a warm up in this coming week with a lot of dry and bright weather. There is also now good support for a spell of potentially wet weather in the South next weekend as Low pressure pulls in from the SW or West. Thereafter there is a lot of spread between the members with an array of options ranging from warm and settled to rather cool NW winds and a little rain at times. This weeks spoiler Low to the NW on Tuesday/Wednesday appears to dilute the sunniest conditions away from UK through the middle of this week too.


The Jet Stream shows the flow across the UK splitting this week with one arm travelling North of the UK and as it does so opens the door to a Southern arm which becomes responsible for carrying next weekends unsettled spell across the UK. Beyond that the flow becomes much weaker and diffuse with one arm travelling North over Greenland and another one East over France and Europe.


UKMO closes it's midnight run with Low pressure positioned over the English Channel and Southern England next Saturday with outbreaks of showery and potentially thundery rain in warm and humid conditions while the North sees the best of drier and bright conditions.


GEM on the other hand brings developments to the NW into play next weekend with the short fine spell extended on rather longer in the South in slack winds before cooler and more changeable conditions come down from the NW at the start of Week 2 with outbreaks of rain or showers in cooler Westerly breezes and temperatures close to average by then.


NAVGEM takes the UKMO and GFS type route developing Low pressure close to SW Britain next weekend with outbreaks of rain and showers developing for the South and West following several warm, sunny snd dry days. The North and East would stay rather drier and warm inland in association with High pressure having moved off to the NE by then.


ECM today shows Low pressure too over the English channel or Northern France next weekend, close enough to the South for cloud and outbreaks of thundery rain to develop. In the North things look like staying more favourable under a slender ridge of High pressure stretched across these areas from the Atlantic. Under this pattern it does appear it would stay reasonably warm though in any brightness.


In Summary today our projected fine and very warm spell has been reduced to something more akin to a warm snap this morning. Problems arise from both the onset of the spell and the end as the spoiler Low he models have struggled with for days seems to get hung up over the UK air mass and leads to a lot of cloud and light rain for all midweek with large amounts of cloud now looking likely into the latter end of the week too for some. Nevertheless there should be a couple of reasonably summer like days late in the week before the second problem arise from developments to the South and/or SW next weekend. It looks likely that Low pressure will develop to the SW of the UK early next weekend with a spell of thundery rain or showers in these areas lasting several days. The north may be OK next weekend as a ridge from one source or another holds sway. Further out is anyone's guess this morning as a cocktail of options are shown but it does look disappointingly for many that this weeks and what was a probable longer prospect of good summer weather has been tempered somewhat on the outputs today.


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 


Good summary and plenty of time for the models to flip back. The message however is clear 'Go North Young Man' if you want a fine Bank Hoiday.


Andy


Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
Col
  • Col
  • Advanced Member
18 August 2013 11:55:30


 Good summary and plenty of time for the models to flip back. The message however is clear 'Go North Young Man' if you want a fine Bank Hoiday.


Andy


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


 


And where am I going at the Bank Holiday?


South.


Typical.


 


Col
Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl
Snow videos:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3QvmL4UWBmHFMKWiwYm_gg
Charmhills
18 August 2013 12:09:13

I really couldn't care less about the BH as its been a good summer, the best since 2006, plenty of heat and storms to boot.


Still I wont say no to further convective outbreaks should they arise towards the weekend.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Sevendust
18 August 2013 12:20:41


I really couldn't care less about the BH as its been a good summer, the best since 2006, plenty of heat and storms to boot.


Still I wont say no to further convective outbreaks should they arise towards the weekend.


Originally Posted by: Charmhills 


Agreed - although not much convective here Autumn will change that due to the stored heat of the English Channel 

Essan
18 August 2013 12:26:56

What's so disappointing about thunderstorms?!    


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Sevendust
18 August 2013 12:28:36


What's so disappointing about thunderstorms?!    


Originally Posted by: Essan 


Duane hates them

Gooner
18 August 2013 13:31:54



6z has low pressure slap bang right over us from Saturday to Monday. Bank Holiday curse!


Originally Posted by: Frost Hollow 


As usual


Originally Posted by: ManUtdMatt1986 


 


???? the last couple have been ok, haven't they?


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Polar Low
18 August 2013 14:02:20

Must have been ok Marcus as Anglia TV have had no Bond movie on for the last couple whats the betting one on the next b/h.





6z has low pressure slap bang right over us from Saturday to Monday. Bank Holiday curse!


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


As usual


Originally Posted by: Frost Hollow 


 


???? the last couple have been ok, haven't they?


Originally Posted by: ManUtdMatt1986 

Essan
18 August 2013 14:10:41




6z has low pressure slap bang right over us from Saturday to Monday. Bank Holiday curse!


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


As usual


Originally Posted by: Frost Hollow 


 


???? the last couple have been ok, haven't they?


Originally Posted by: ManUtdMatt1986 



Nah, not had a good bank holiday since Hurricane Charley in '86


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Polar Low
18 August 2013 14:14:27

intresting jap run12z yesterday  does  just enough what a coup for her if it happened like that.


 


spin around the top http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/jma.php?ech=144&mode=1

Gandalf The White
18 August 2013 14:26:40


intresting jap run12z yesterday  does  just enough what a coup for her if it happened like that.


 


spin around the top http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/jma.php?ech=144&mode=1


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


The main models, including GFS/ECM/GEM ensemble means, produce an upper trough in our vicinity by Friday with some sort of associated surface feature.  JMA kills off the upper trough because it produces a high pressure cell to our NW.  I'm not sure that I'd want to put any money on that evolution given it's out of kilter with the others.


We might be lucky and get a slack surface low producing scattered storms.  That would be preferable to frontal systems or troughs spinning slowly around and delivering more organised heavy rain.


At least it should be warm for many.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Frost Hollow
18 August 2013 14:59:50




6z has low pressure slap bang right over us from Saturday to Monday. Bank Holiday curse!


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


As usual


Originally Posted by: Frost Hollow 


 


???? the last couple have been ok, haven't they?


Originally Posted by: ManUtdMatt1986 


Typical for the August one i meant, normally a poor one.

bledur
18 August 2013 15:18:37

well i looked at charts a couple of days ago and saw low pressure moving north from spain at the end of the week and thought that looks a bit thundery for the south. however all the forecasts i saw were for a fine spell through the weekend so i reckoned i had it wrong . still 5-6 days off so could go either way.

Medlock Vale Weather
18 August 2013 16:31:11

12z GFS looks like a downgrade, at least for up here, probably 24C may be the best we get here this week instead of the 27C that was predicted yesterday, still time for things to change though. No heatwave at this point though north of the Midlands.


Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 
Rob K
18 August 2013 18:03:12
Just had a skim through the models... what the heck happened? I know the warm spell was looking shakier on Friday but now it seems to have vanished entirely! Another washout week in Cornwall on the cards by the looks of it.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Steam Fog
18 August 2013 18:08:45
Coming week looks drier than average for most of the country, particularly the SE.

http://www.wxmaps.org/pix/prec4.html 

Warmer than average for most too.

http://www.wxmaps.org/pix/temp4.html 



Steve Murr
18 August 2013 18:34:27

I think the newspapers have overdone the forecast for heat this week, a few nice days for sure but the atlantic will be driving SE again by the weekend & BHOL looks like a showery washout....


 


Still, a few nice days in there. I must admit im looking at at day 16 on the GFS seeing the cold air expanding waiting for the snowcover thread to start- if todays 12z GFS lands then a fair bit of early september snow across northern canada!


 


THe PV looks colder than usual at this time of year!




S

Matty H
18 August 2013 18:36:03

I think the newspapers have overdone the forecast for heat this week, a few nice days for sure but the atlantic will be driving SE again by the weekend & BHOL looks like a showery washout....

Still, a few nice days in there. I must admit im looking at at day 16 on the GFS seeing the cold air expanding waiting for the snowcover thread to start- if todays 12z GFS lands then a fair bit of early september snow across northern canada!


S

Originally Posted by: Steve Murr 



If they were based on the runs prior to yesterday afternoon they'd have only been reflecting what was the outlook at that time.

As you say, still looks pretty decent at times 👍
Charmhills
18 August 2013 18:46:20

The ECM 12z looking warm and humid with some thundery weather likely by Saturday and Sunday.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1202.gif


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1442.gif


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1682.gif


 


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Gooner
18 August 2013 18:46:50

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn14417.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn16817.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn19217.png


 


Not great eh?


some wet stuff about as well


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Stormchaser
18 August 2013 18:57:49

For the BH, it looks like the best we can reasonably hope for is either a very slack trough or one tracking just to the south of the UK.


Either of those still brings some showers, slow moving in the former case.


I see it as a situation where changes in the westerly momentum will have big impacts, so it's still possible that the trough could end up stalling more to the SW as per the 12z UKMO run.


ECM is having none of the cut-off low possibility, instead keeping the system tied in with the westerlies and rushing it through, so leaving us with a NW flow on Monday with the HP ridge starting to build in from the west - probably showery in many places, and frankly I'd rather have the GFS version, which is nice and warm in between the showers.




We all know that the models can have a mare with these HP cells to the NE, so it would not be an act of insanity to hope for the HP to hold it's ground better and/or be a stronger feature. Unfortunately, it's the recent trend towards the HP being less resilliant that makes it seem a lot less likely this time around.


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LeedsLad123
18 August 2013 19:09:13


Depends on where you are - the average max here for August is 20.8C so 20C would be very close to average, and I actually see a small area of 21C in this part of the world. If it's anything like this week, then I won't be complaining.


Whitkirk, Leeds - 85m ASL.
GIBBY
18 August 2013 19:11:18

Good evening folks. Here is the evening look at the midday outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Sunday August 18th 2013.


All models show a Westerly flow across the UK over the next 24 hours with scattered showers in the North and West. Pressure will rise steadily from the SW with High pressure close to SW Britain by this time tomorrow. Through the week High pressure will extend across most Southern and Eastern areas with some very warm and sunny weather developing while Low pressure affects the North and West of the British Isles with outbreaks of rain on Tuesday and Wednesday. Later in the week High pressure extends North to improve conditions for Northern Britain too beyond midweek while pressure falls to the SW late in the week and next weekend with thundery rain or showers extending across at least Southern areas by the end of next weekend.


GFS then shows Low pressure taking control over the long weekend with rain or showers and temperatures slowly on the decline. Through the following week the Low pressure slip slowly North and NE with the showers and rain eventually moving away with it. With pressure higher again down to the SW the weather will slowly revert to a North/South type pattern where the South sees the most dry and bright conditions and the North sees occasional bouts of wind and rain. Temperatures are shown to return  close to average.


The GFS Ensembles tonight show a return to average temperatures from next weekend after a strong warm up for three to four days in the South this week. Occasional rainfall continues on and off throughout for Scottish locations with Southern England locations seeing some too in Week 2.


The Jet Stream pattern shows the flow far less quick to return to more Northern latitudes on tonight's output. Instead it shows a Southern arm becoming the most dominant arm by next weekend close to Southern Britain. thereafter it ridges well North over the Atlantic and sinking SE over the UK in week 2 indicative of high pressure over the Atlantic and a NW feed of air over the UK.


UKMO tonight shows slow moving Low pressure down to the SW with thundery showers over the South and west of England and wales. The North and East will be dry and quite warm with sunny spells at this point.


GEM tonight shows it's own version of bringing more unsettled conditions across from the West next weekend as a trough is shown to cross the UK with showery rain followed by cooler and fresher conditions in a slack NW flow strengthening to a Westerly later as low pressure digs down from the NW.


NAVGEM tonight shows a showery long weekend as low pressure transpires close to the South of the UK next weekend. The North would fair best from this with longer drier spells especially on Bank Holiday Monday.


ECM is not very good for next week too this evening as it carries cloud and showers across the UK over the weekend, heavy and thundery in places. As we move into the new week a cool NW flow will bring further showers on Bank Holiday Monday before a build of pressure once more from the SW settles things down again deeper into the week.


In Summary the weather looks like first improving through this week and then sliding downhill at the all important Bank Holiday weekend. There will be some rain for a time in the NW towards the middle of this week before all areas see a fine and very warm interlude, especially in the South. Following a potentially warm, humid and very showery Bank Holiday weekend week 2 shows some suggestions of a rise of pressure again from the SW but in all honesty thinking about what happens following next weekend is unwise at the moment while the events of next weekend have yet to be pinned down.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Hungry Tiger
18 August 2013 19:26:25


Good evening folks. Here is the evening look at the midday outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Sunday August 18th 2013.


All models show a Westerly flow across the UK over the next 24 hours with scattered showers in the North and West. Pressure will rise steadily from the SW with High pressure close to SW Britain by this time tomorrow. Through the week High pressure will extend across most Southern and Eastern areas with some very warm and sunny weather developing while Low pressure affects the North and West of the British Isles with outbreaks of rain on Tuesday and Wednesday. Later in the week High pressure extends North to improve conditions for Northern Britain too beyond midweek while pressure falls to the SW late in the week and next weekend with thundery rain or showers extending across at least Southern areas by the end of next weekend.


GFS then shows Low pressure taking control over the long weekend with rain or showers and temperatures slowly on the decline. Through the following week the Low pressure slip slowly North and NE with the showers and rain eventually moving away with it. With pressure higher again down to the SW the weather will slowly revert to a North/South type pattern where the South sees the most dry and bright conditions and the North sees occasional bouts of wind and rain. Temperatures are shown to return  close to average.


The GFS Ensembles tonight show a return to average temperatures from next weekend after a strong warm up for three to four days in the South this week. Occasional rainfall continues on and off throughout for Scottish locations with Southern England locations seeing some too in Week 2.


The Jet Stream pattern shows the flow far less quick to return to more Northern latitudes on tonight's output. Instead it shows a Southern arm becoming the most dominant arm by next weekend close to Southern Britain. thereafter it ridges well North over the Atlantic and sinking SE over the UK in week 2 indicative of high pressure over the Atlantic and a NW feed of air over the UK.


UKMO tonight shows slow moving Low pressure down to the SW with thundery showers over the South and west of England and wales. The North and East will be dry and quite warm with sunny spells at this point.


GEM tonight shows it's own version of bringing more unsettled conditions across from the West next weekend as a trough is shown to cross the UK with showery rain followed by cooler and fresher conditions in a slack NW flow strengthening to a Westerly later as low pressure digs down from the NW.


NAVGEM tonight shows a showery long weekend as low pressure transpires close to the South of the UK next weekend. The North would fair best from this with longer drier spells especially on Bank Holiday Monday.


ECM is not very good for next week too this evening as it carries cloud and showers across the UK over the weekend, heavy and thundery in places. As we move into the new week a cool NW flow will bring further showers on Bank Holiday Monday before a build of pressure once more from the SW settles things down again deeper into the week.


In Summary the weather looks like first improving through this week and then sliding downhill at the all important Bank Holiday weekend. There will be some rain for a time in the NW towards the middle of this week before all areas see a fine and very warm interlude, especially in the South. Following a potentially warm, humid and very showery Bank Holiday weekend week 2 shows some suggestions of a rise of pressure again from the SW but in all honesty thinking about what happens following next weekend is unwise at the moment while the events of next weekend have yet to be pinned down.


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 


Cheers Martin - Can't argue with that at all really. I've looked at a few charts as some mates of mine keep saying - what will the holiday weekend be like.


I've had to say to them - can't tell yet.


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


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