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Polar Low
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 8:36:45 PM
doctormog
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 8:41:07 PM

A few go even colder for your part lucky bugger.
http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/two/ensembles/ 
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn481.png  😂

Originally Posted by: Polar Low 



Although I'm looking forward to the snow showers (albeit briefly) it is the wind that is really noteworthy with gusts projected to peak at over 90mph in northern parts for a time and maybe over 70mph funnelling through the Central Belt of Scotland for a time at rip use hour on Thursday.

I would expect the warnings to be upgraded to amber for some of the conditions if the models don't ease off this scenario for Thursday.
Matty H
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 8:50:17 PM


Alright keep you hat on.

Quite a nasty pressure gradient there I wonder if the north east will have any warnings will be issued. http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=48&mode=1&map=1&archive=0 

Originally Posted by: Polar Low 

Apart from the ones issued yesterday by the Met Office and updated today, for both winds and snow at that time point? 🤨

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

Originally Posted by: Polar Low 



Can you please read the forum code of conduct. During winter all users must reference Aberdeen potential in every model output discussion post, or feel the wrath of The Doc [sn_bsmil] Hi Michael [sn_tong]

Looks pretty chilly even for here on Friday. If Fergusson has it right we won't be far off double figures here next week. After that is anyone's guess.






Oh, and snow for The Doc [sn_bsmil]
Quantum
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 8:51:51 PM

Yes but it always snows in Aberdeen even in july. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Polar Low
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 8:53:04 PM

Thinking we will have to learn a new trait for this part in Essex a bit like in summer on here with>>>"it will be nice in any sunshine" in winter it will be "it will be nice in the wind"


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn481.png  😂

Although I'm looking forward to the snow showers (albeit briefly) it is the wind that is really noteworthy with gusts projected to peak at over 90mph in northern parts for a time and maybe over 70mph funnelling through the Central Belt of Scotland for a time at rip use hour on Thursday. I would expect the warnings to be upgraded to amber for some of the conditions if the models don't ease off this scenario for Thursday.

Gooner
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 8:54:28 PM




ECM: "Welcome to hell"


Originally Posted by: Quantum 



One run


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Wasn't just one run. Haven't seen anything of interest for a while, no bearing highs but plenty of bartletts. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


It was ?? How many 12z did you see from ECM


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


doctormog
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 8:55:26 PM
Who's talking about the snow Q (although it does look likely here)?

I'm talking about the potentially very severe weather (winds, coastal flooding etc.) that is largely being overlooked while pages of discussion of an easterly deep in FI that is being shown by a portion of the outcome. 😝

Hello Matt. [sn_bsmil] (I thought that you had removed that bit of the Code?)

Enjoy your BBQ. [sn_blush]
lezrob
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 8:59:15 PM
😁

Interesting to note the run to run inconsistency of ECM.

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 




Been lurking for 7 years... Still know nothing.. Weather fascinates..
Banbury Oxon
GIBBY
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 9:03:56 PM

Good evening folks. Here's how I see the midday outputs of GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM and what they mean for us down on the surface over the next week or two.


All models show a weak cold front moving South across Central areas overnight with a band of outbreaks of rain moving South to reach South Wales and the Midlands by morning. The North will see clearer conditions behind the rain with a frost in places and a few wintry showers over the far North. Through tomorrow the rain progresses through the South while another front approaches the North later. Clearer conditions will give the South more sunshine later in the day while Northern areas become cloudier and breezier later. Through tomorrow night and Thursday a rapidly deepening depression moves East then SE to the North and NE of Britain with gale or severe gale force winds over Northern areas and with a short spell of rain moving quickly SE down over all areas through the day. Very cold air will follow with snow showers in the North and East while Southern and Western areas stay dry, breezy and cold. Then after a frost on Friday night High pressure slips SE over Southern Britain allowing milder air and cloudy conditions from the North Atlantic to filter across and down over the UK through the weekend.


GFS then shows the rest of the run with the UK under mild SW or SSW winds with Northern and Western areas under risk of rain at times in blustery winds. More Southern and Eastern areas stay largely dry with rather cloudy conditions prevailing and temperatures possibly mild if surface winds stay sufficiently breezy to bring milder uppers down from above to the surface.


UKMO tonight shows High pressure over much of France and the Meditteranean Sea with a Westerly flow over Northern Britain with relatively mild and cloudy conditions here. Over Southern Britain winds will be quite light with a lot of cloud at times but with some drier and clearer skies at times too leading to frost and fog patches night and morning with chilly and grey conditions prevailing at other times.


GEM shows High pressure to the SE building strongly through next week with mild Atlantic winds affecting the North and West while Southern and Eastern areas stay dry and though rather cloudy at times areas of mist, fog and frost under any clearances in the cloud could give some more rather chilly anticyclonic gloom type days down here.


NAVGEM follows the trend of the others with a moist SW flow over the North and West carrying cloud and mild weather across these areas. In the South and East it may well be that we maintain somewhat colder conditions with some frost and fog patches should cloud breaks occur overnight.


ECM shows a large High pressure area over France later next week which will maintain mostly fine and settled conditions across many areas. It will not be particularly mild early in the week away from the NW but it does look under the light to moderste WSW flow shown on Day 10 that mild if cloudy conditions look likely for all though with very little rainfall anywhere.


The GFS Ensembles show a cold snap over the coming few days before things turn less cold and benign once more as High pressure to the SE wafts Southerly winds up across the UK. Rainfall is shown only towards the latter part of the run for the South from some members with amounts small for all.


The ECM 12 noon ensembles also paint a relatively mild scenario at least aloft with High pressure to the SE of the UK. To obtain cold from these we need an inversion which often means cloudy, grey and rather cold conditions in very light winds. If however, the winds are somewhat stronger at the surface some of those warmer uppers could translate towards the surface though conversely frost becomes an issue at night should drier continental winds make landfall over the South.


The Jet Stream shows the flow to the NW turning SE down the North Sea briefly over the next 72 hours before the flow quickly resets in a NE direction over the Atlantic to the NW of the British Isles and on over Northern Scandinavia.


In Summary tonight the cold snap is almost here and still shows a 'blink and a miss it' affair away from Northern and Eastern parts where severe gales and occasional snowfall could be quite noteworthy for a while. However, this is the only noteworthy weather conditions to come out of the 12 noon models tonight. All of them show High pressure moving in close to Suthern Britain at the weekend and down to the SE from the start of next week setting up a South or SW flow over the UK. With the proximity of High pressure so close to the SE at times then cloudy and dry weather will probably sum up the weather through most of next week and probably beyond with little or no rain away from the far NW at times. Temperatures will be on the warm side of average over Northern and Western Britain under a maritime SW'ly while Southern and Eastern areas possibly too sharing some of this milder air remain always at risk from incursions of Continental air bringing colder air in from Europe at times with frost and fog issues should it occur. All in all though it looks very likely that it is going to be sometime before our UK weather resembles anything like real Winter weather with most farmers, growers, travellers and the like able to carry out their outside duties and travels unhindered.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
White Meadows
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 9:11:31 PM



ECM: "Welcome to hell"

Originally Posted by: Quantum 


UserPostedImage
One run

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Wasn't just one run. Haven't seen anything of interest for a while, no bearing highs but plenty of bartletts.

Originally Posted by: Quantum 



Last winter we had the 'count down days to cut-off point'.. And this winter its all about the 'Bearing high'

Am I missing something Quantum?
Matty H
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 9:18:53 PM



ECM: "Welcome to hell"

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


UserPostedImage
One run

Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Wasn't just one run. Haven't seen anything of interest for a while, no bearing highs but plenty of bartletts.

Originally Posted by: Gooner 



Last winter we had the 'count down days to cut-off point'.. And this winter its all about the 'Bearing high'

Am I missing something Quantum?

Originally Posted by: Quantum 



Yes: "Isopleth" 👅


Doc, I would say you're almost a cert for some white stuff this week. Whether it'll settle or not I have no idea. Better chance further inland maybe.
doctormog
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 9:22:24 PM
It'll settle on northwestern facing walls Matt!
Hippydave
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 9:35:54 PM

http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/two/ensembles/


I'm assuming the de bilt ens on that are the latest ones - longer term and the op is a notable warm outlier, with clustering supporting cold.


Appreciate this is for Holland but presumably just shows that this time round the op has picked one of the mild options - I'd still go with a low chance of colder air reaching us via the East, based on these ens and previous runs


If you go with the assumption GFS is too progressive longer term and ECM too blocked a reasonable punt imo would be for low level cold to affect the southern half of the UK longer term, with anything more interesting subject to less oomph in the atlantic and getting a decent undercut.


Short term as Doc has pointed out occasionally () still looking wild up North with some snow about. Short but sweet


 


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
Andy Woodcock
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 9:45:57 PM

Hmmm,


Dont think I am going to have to worry about the Pennine Snow Shield for a while yet, but just as well I replaced the lawn mower


 


Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
Quantum
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 9:57:47 PM

ECM: "Welcome to hell"

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 

UserPostedImage One run

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

Wasn't just one run. Haven't seen anything of interest for a while, no bearing highs but plenty of bartletts.

Originally Posted by: Gooner 

Last winter we had the 'count down days to cut-off point'.. And this winter its all about the 'Bearing high' Am I missing something Quantum?

Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Thing is, the models have been predicting for so long a break in the PV which was likely to end in a cold spell. So finally my cold spell has arrived, 13 days after I started banging on about it; and where does all the snow go? AAAAAAberdeen as usual. I mean Aberdeen is to the UK as Greece is to Europe. Always stealing the cold and snow! And now, I can't see anything in the forseeable future to get excited about, certainly no sign of any PV weakening or yes, bearing highs! There are hints that things might start to happen in the 2nd half of the month, but thats weeks away! Plus there is a countdown in a sense, as we speak the sea temperature is going down, in a months time we would need -14C uppers to get thundersnow. The window for severe snow storms at releativly achiveable uppers is getting smaller and smaller (unless you live in AAAAAAberdeen or lerwick). 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
moomin75
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 10:00:32 PM


Hmmm,


Dont think I am going to have to worry about the Pennine Snow Shield for a while yet, but just as well I replaced the lawn mower


 


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 

I don't want to sound like the grinch who stole Christmas, but is a nice mild southerly waft really THAT bad in December?


Haven't had a mild December for a long time - and OK I know it *may* not be that mild - but the synoptics currently showing on all the models shows plenty of southerly winds, which *IF* co-inciding with clear skies could feel quite pleasant in the sunshine.


Temps of around 8-10c in sunshine and no wind would feel positively glorious and a big contrast to recent winters - and also - if it can't be cold and snow, I would much rather have benign weather with a chance of sunshine.


As I mentioned a day or so back, I felt a lot of members on here were chasing gold at the end of the rainbow, when quite clearly there is nothing to be optimistic about if it's a cold spell you were after.


That's why I am even more surprised at Fergie's comments that UKMO are/were backing a build of pressure to the north east and colder conditions. I really cannot see where that is coming from  and I think you can genuinely write off the next couple of weeks if you were hoping for anything really seasonal.


As Gav has pointed out, just because the uppers are mild, does not equate to mild at the surface, but if skies can be relatively free of cloud, we could be looking at a very pleasant spell of weather coming up.


The chances are it will probably end up gloomy with cloud and fog, but hopefully not all the time.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Rob K
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 10:01:02 PM

Plus there is a countdown in a sense, as we speak the sea temperature is going down


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Not only that: In less than three weeks the days start lengthening again. Time for a "summer 2014 thoughts" thread before long!


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Matty H
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 10:01:35 PM

ECM: "Welcome to hell"

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

UserPostedImage One run

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 

Wasn't just one run. Haven't seen anything of interest for a while, no bearing highs but plenty of bartletts.

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

Last winter we had the 'count down days to cut-off point'.. And this winter its all about the 'Bearing high' Am I missing something Quantum?

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Thing is, the models have been predicting for so long a break in the PV which was likely to end in a cold spell. So finally my cold spell has arrived, 13 days after I started banging on about it; and where does all the snow go? AAAAAAberdeen as usual. I mean Aberdeen is to the UK as Greece is to Europe. Always stealing the cold and snow! And now, I can't see anything in the forseeable future to get excited about, certainly no sign of any PV weakening or yes, bearing highs! There are hints that things might start to happen in the 2nd half of the month, but thats weeks away! Plus there is a countdown in a sense, as we speak the sea temperature is going down, in a months time we would need -14C uppers to get thundersnow. The window for severe snow storms at releativly achiveable uppers is getting smaller and smaller (unless you live in AAAAAAberdeen or lerwick).

Originally Posted by: Quantum 



Oh good grief 😒

It's December the 3rd, Quantum.
Quantum
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 10:05:35 PM

ECM: "Welcome to hell"

Originally Posted by: Matty H 

UserPostedImage One run

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

Wasn't just one run. Haven't seen anything of interest for a while, no bearing highs but plenty of bartletts.

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 

Last winter we had the 'count down days to cut-off point'.. And this winter its all about the 'Bearing high' Am I missing something Quantum?

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

Thing is, the models have been predicting for so long a break in the PV which was likely to end in a cold spell. So finally my cold spell has arrived, 13 days after I started banging on about it; and where does all the snow go? AAAAAAberdeen as usual. I mean Aberdeen is to the UK as Greece is to Europe. Always stealing the cold and snow! And now, I can't see anything in the forseeable future to get excited about, certainly no sign of any PV weakening or yes, bearing highs! There are hints that things might start to happen in the 2nd half of the month, but thats weeks away! Plus there is a countdown in a sense, as we speak the sea temperature is going down, in a months time we would need -14C uppers to get thundersnow. The window for severe snow storms at releativly achiveable uppers is getting smaller and smaller (unless you live in AAAAAAberdeen or lerwick).

Originally Posted by: Gooner 

Oh good grief 😒 It's December the 3rd, Quantum.

Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Sorry matt, I know. Its just, if you had copied and pasted Dec 2010 synoptics into January or february then the snow wouldn't have been nearly as extreme. Part of what made Dec 2010 the perfect month, was a combination of high SSTs, low solar radiation, and a frigid airmass. When you get to the latter part of the winter, you have to compensate with an even more ridiculously frigid airmass. March 2013 had one of the coldest air masses I have ever seen (about the 11th) but I dont even think we had an ice day, and snow away from higher ground wasn't great (although a trip to the pennines more than compensated admitadely). 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
David M Porter
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 10:09:46 PM


As I mentioned a day or so back, I felt a lot of members on here were chasing gold at the end of the rainbow, when quite clearly there is nothing to be optimistic about if it's a cold spell you were after.


That's why I am even more surprised at Fergie's comments that UKMO are/were backing a build of pressure to the north east and colder conditions. I really cannot see where that is coming from  and I think you can genuinely write off the next couple of weeks if you were hoping for anything really seasonal.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


I recall reading on one of these threads a while back that the MetO have access to model runs and data that we, the general public do not get access to, and that is why on some occasions their medium range outlooks can sometimes fly in the face of what the model runs that we can see are showing.


For example, I seem to recall back in late May/early June 2012 that the models that we have access to were mostly showing a fairly prolonged settled period setting up, but the MetO's medium range outlooks at the time were talking about increasingly unsettled weather as we moved into June. Guess who was right there!


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Matty H
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 10:11:14 PM
Most of the deepest falls of snow here, and we've had more than a few, have come in Jan or Feb. I can even think of a couple in March.

Winter has barely started yet (or should that be bearly?) much to my dismay, but the window for snow has barely cracked open yet.
Saint Snow
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 10:17:00 PM

It'll settle on northwestern facing walls Matt!

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


 



 


I see what you did there.



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Quantum
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 10:19:52 PM

Most of the deepest falls of snow here, and we've had more than a few, have come in Jan or Feb. I can even think of a couple in March. Winter has barely started yet (or should that be bearly?) much to my dismay, but the window for snow has barely cracked open yet.

Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Yeh but you live in the SW, so you don't reply on the lake effect much anyway. You do fine on the easterly turnovers from the atlantic that any decent greenland blocking brings. For places near the NE coast, the lake effect is a vital source of snow. Frontal snow just doesnt deliever, warm fronts tend to end the cold spell if they can get that far north, cold fronts are rainy beasts. Occlusions are nice, but they are tenous and unreliable to say the least. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Arcus
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 10:22:58 PM
Good grief, wandered in here looking for some model output discussion, find it's Tena Lady night.

More runs needed, just keep them off the bedclothes.
Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
JoeShmoe99
Tuesday, December 3, 2013 10:24:05 PM

A few go even colder for your part lucky bugger.
http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/two/ensembles/ 
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn481.png  😂

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

Originally Posted by: Polar Low 



Although I'm looking forward to the snow showers (albeit briefly) it is the wind that is really noteworthy with gusts projected to peak at over 90mph in northern parts for a time and maybe over 70mph funnelling through the Central Belt of Scotland for a time at rip use hour on Thursday.

I would expect the warnings to be upgraded to amber for some of the conditions if the models don't ease off this scenario for Thursday.



Perhaps well have multiple reporters stationed over the central belt with those sort of winds..... Maybe not ;-)

Back to the models and as Moomin and Martyn's have said you really being optimistic if you're seeing anything cold in tonight's mid-long range output, indeed the PV looks well organised
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