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Ally Pally Snowman
07 January 2014 20:30:28
Excellent mean charts from ECM tonight much better than the Op.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem1682.html 
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem1922.html 
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2401.html 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Hungry Tiger
07 January 2014 20:32:06

Nothing to get excited about.


http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/ds/gfs.htm


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


KevBrads1
07 January 2014 20:33:08
I think meteociel has forgotten that we are passed Twelfth Night, it still has got its Christmas hat on!

http://www.meteociel.fr 
MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238
Timelapses, old weather forecasts and natural phenomena videos can be seen on this site
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgrSD1BwFz2feWDTydhpEhQ/playlists
Rob K
07 January 2014 20:37:10

http://www.meteociel.fr/ukmo/runs/2014010712/UN144-21.GIF?07-21  Nothing to get excited about

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

528 decametre line somewhere in the English Channel. OK. Maybe "excited" isn't the word, but "pleasing" would be about right.

Originally Posted by: some faraway beach 

The 528dam (500-1000hPa) line is in a line from somewhere over Ireland to the far NW of Scotland on that chart according to my "at a glance" calculations. 😄

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


I think it is further south than that. Look at the high-res chart here:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo/royaume-uni/500-hpa/144h.htm


 


Eg the Isle of Wight has SLP 1006mb and 500mb height of about 530mb (right in the middle of the lightest blue colour).


I make that a 500-1000mb thickness of approximately 530-(6x 0.8) = 525.2dam. Correct me if I'm wrong?


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
GIBBY
07 January 2014 20:37:21

Good evening. Here is the report on the 12 noon outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Tuesday January 7th 2013 taken from http://www.norton-radstockweather.co.uk/Model-Analysis(2859336).htm


All models show Low pressure to the North of the UK filling over the coming 24-48 hours as pressure rises gently over the UK. In the South and SE an overnight passage of a front will create some more unneeded rainfall across SE England overnight and more widely over England and Wales tomorrow night. Winds are shown to be much lighter than of late for all. On Thursday and into Friday a drier and brighter spell is likely before some rain returns on Friday night into Saturday, again in turn followed by a drier phase over the weekend with rain and wind spreading steadily North and East over the UK.


GFS then shows next week starting unsettled and wet with rain at times under Low pressure. Later in the week the system providing the rain slides away SE with High pressure developing from the NW as a High pressure belt stretches from Scandinavia to the Azores which then sinks further South and East to a point South of the UK with Westerly winds returning for many by the end of the run lifting temperatures back to average levels from the colder figures and no doubt threatening rain in the North.


The GFS Ensembles are a very mixed bunch with a very wide spread between members with many showing values close to average while some show colder than average ones with the upper hand going to the slightly colder ones tonight with precipitation scattered about throughout the period indicating Low pressure fairly close by from all members at times but mixed in are some quieter anticyclonic weather in between times too especially later.


UKMO shows Low pressure over Northern Scotland with a wet and windy period sweeping East over the UK with showers to follow in rather colder air.


GEM tonight turns things much colder for all once disruption to the trough moving into the UK early next week takes place. Rain would move across all areas for a time before it sinks away SE and is replaced by very much colder and dry conditions as High pressure eases down from the North with widespread sharp frosts by night. As the rain clears there could be a period of snow which could accompany the change to colder air chiefly in the South. By the end of the run the pattern slips South as an Azores High allows for milder air to topple back down over the UK late on.


NAVGEM keeps any High pressure influential to Britain towards the SE steering Low pressure across the UK in West or SW winds with things drying up a week from now as a ridge from the High to the SE covers the UK.


ECM tonight is apalling for dry weather fans as the UK becomes the battlegrorund between mild Atlantic winds and cold continental air developed over Europe through next week. The net result in the 5-10 day period is thoroughly wet and windy weather again as Low pressure becomes blocked over or close to Southern Britain. By Day 10 the filling Low near the SW may allow cold continental air to waft West across Britain beyond the end of the run.


The ECM 9 and 10 Day Ensemble Mean Charts show the situation much the same as this morning with the risk of Low pressure troughs ganging up close to western Britain with fairly persitent rainfall possible. While the scandi High is still an option from many members it's progress to a full blow Easterly still looks a long way off at Day 10 and not progressing from Day 9. However, having said that the charts are both still quite promising.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2161.gif
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2401.gif


The Jet Stream Forecast from GFS shows the flow remaining active across the Atlantic ridging and troughing North and South at times with a growing trend to keep the flow on Southern latitudes over Europe which could support High pressure over Northern Europe.


In Summary the weather looks set to turn colder next week. The nature and the process that this pattern develops could be quite troublesome as it could lead to a lot more rain as troughs and Low pressure gang up on the UK from the West, blocked by a developing High pressure to the East or NE. There is still a lot of water to pass under the bridge (forgive the pun) before we get a clearer picture of how the pattern unfolds in the longer term but my own thoughts would be that a pattern change is likely to something more interesting for cold fans later in the month with a strong chance of a Scandinavian Anticyclone developing sometime soon which I believe would be the first step towards meaningful snowfall chances too this winter.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
some faraway beach
07 January 2014 20:38:01

http://www.meteociel.fr/ukmo/runs/2014010712/UN144-21.GIF?07-21  Nothing to get excited about

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

528 decametre line somewhere in the English Channel. OK. Maybe "excited" isn't the word, but "pleasing" would be about right.

Originally Posted by: some faraway beach 

The 528dam (500-1000hPa) line is in a line from somewhere over Ireland to the far NW of Scotland on that chart according to my "at a glance" calculations. 😄

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Really? I make the blue shade in the middle of the English Channel to be representing 532 dam on that 500 hPA chart. It lies within the 1010 mb isobar, so that is, roughly, 532 - ((1010-1000)x0.8) dam for the 500-1000hPa value.


But very happy to be corrected if I've got the formula and/or arithmetic wrong.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
Rob K
07 January 2014 20:41:28


http://www.meteociel.fr/ukmo/runs/2014010712/UN144-21.GIF?07-21  Nothing to get excited about

Originally Posted by: some faraway beach 

528 decametre line somewhere in the English Channel. OK. Maybe "excited" isn't the word, but "pleasing" would be about right.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

The 528dam (500-1000hPa) line is in a line from somewhere over Ireland to the far NW of Scotland on that chart according to my "at a glance" calculations. 😄

Originally Posted by: some faraway beach 


Really? I make the blue shade in the middle of the English Channel to be representing 532 dam on that 500 hPA chart. It lies within the 1010 mb isobar, so that is, roughly, 532 - ((1010-1000)x0.8) dam for the 500-1000hPa value.


But very happy to be corrected if I've got the formula and/or arithmetic wrong.


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Yes I agree with you (but I forgot to apply the 0.8 factor - edited my post now.)


 


The formula is (500mb height) + ((1000-SLP) x 0.8), I believe.


So for my Isle of Wight example, 530mb + ((1000-1006) x 0.8) = 525.2dam


 


Unlikely to produce snow - I believe the "50/50 rain/snow" line for the UK is generally held to be the 522dam line.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
marting
07 January 2014 20:47:39
The ECM operational was very much on the mild side of the runs tonight.
Martin
Martin
Greasby, Wirral.
nickl
07 January 2014 20:49:54

whilst martin must show caution and tell it as he sees it, unless the pendulum swings back to more jet energy in the northern split tomorrow, i think that snowfall could well be rather earlier and more widespread.  its a very fine line at the moment though.


kudos to gfs for spotting that the blocking wouldnt establish without a fight from the atlantic. (that was sarcasm btw)

White Meadows
07 January 2014 20:53:08

JMA =Pick of the bunch tonight. I await cross model agreement on cold at 96 hours before popping the champagne.



Think GEM could well be the best tonight heavy snow showers for the SE starting in just 7 days.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rgem1682.html 



That chart looks dry to me?...

Looking like a close but no cigar set up on the cards (faux easterly one might say) but still room for upgrades. Some of the classic easterlies of the past arrived at fairly short notice.
nickl
07 January 2014 20:55:14


ECM ens seem to have trended warmer again today. Looks like a good call from GFS again. We will have to wait another 2 weeks at least, if it comes at all that is!


http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/index.php


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


beast- its the theme of the run as to where the split flow goes. if its more ne, then the ens will probably reflect that and trend less cold. if its se, then you see the opposite. the ecm ops are swinging to and fro with this split flow. the 00z op was more ne but i flet the ens were pretty evenly split. de bilt this evening shows a more obvious set of split clusters.  gfs is trending colder so i dont think it heard your applause !


 

ITSY
07 January 2014 21:04:35



ECM ens seem to have trended warmer again today. Looks like a good call from GFS again. We will have to wait another 2 weeks at least, if it comes at all that is!


http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/index.php


Originally Posted by: nickl 


beast- its the theme of the run as to where the split flow goes. if its more ne, then the ens will probably reflect that and trend less cold. if its se, then you see the opposite. the ecm ops are swinging to and fro with this split flow. the 00z op was more ne but i flet the ens were pretty evenly split. de bilt this evening shows a more obvious set of split clusters.  gfs is trending colder so i dont think it heard your applause !


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Are we sure these are the right ens? the ones being shown over on NW portray a MUCH colder picture - which would also explain what martin was saying on the previous page. (not Gibby, the other one!)

Polar Low
07 January 2014 21:05:08

opp was mild side



 


 




ECM ens seem to have trended warmer again today. Looks like a good call from GFS again. We will have to wait another 2 weeks at least, if it comes at all that is!


http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/index.php


Originally Posted by: nickl 


beast- its the theme of the run as to where the split flow goes. if its more ne, then the ens will probably reflect that and trend less cold. if its se, then you see the opposite. the ecm ops are swinging to and fro with this split flow. the 00z op was more ne but i flet the ens were pretty evenly split. de bilt this evening shows a more obvious set of split clusters.  gfs is trending colder so i dont think it heard your applause !


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

David M Porter
07 January 2014 21:10:29
That chart looks dry to me?... Looking like a close but no cigar set up on the cards (faux easterly one might say) but still room for upgrades. Some of the classic easterlies of the past arrived at fairly short notice.


Wasn't January 1987 one of those famous easterly spells which arrived without a great deal of warning? I know the weather had been unsettled and mostly mild through December '86 and that theme continued into the early days of January.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Ally Pally Snowman
07 January 2014 21:11:13

UserPostedImageUserPostedImageopp was mild side
UserPostedImage




ECM ens seem to have trended warmer again today. Looks like a good call from GFS again. We will have to wait another 2 weeks at least, if it comes at all that is!
http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/index.php 

Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


beast- its the theme of the run as to where the split flow goes. if its more ne, then the ens will probably reflect that and trend less cold. if its se, then you see the opposite. the ecm ops are swinging to and fro with this split flow. the 00z op was more ne but i flet the ens were pretty evenly split. de bilt this evening shows a more obvious set of split clusters. gfs is trending colder so i dont think it heard your applause !

Originally Posted by: nickl 

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 



The control looks very tasty! The longer range ensembles will be very cold.




Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
ITSY
07 January 2014 21:11:26


opp was mild side



 


 




ECM ens seem to have trended warmer again today. Looks like a good call from GFS again. We will have to wait another 2 weeks at least, if it comes at all that is!


http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/index.php


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


beast- its the theme of the run as to where the split flow goes. if its more ne, then the ens will probably reflect that and trend less cold. if its se, then you see the opposite. the ecm ops are swinging to and fro with this split flow. the 00z op was more ne but i flet the ens were pretty evenly split. de bilt this evening shows a more obvious set of split clusters.  gfs is trending colder so i dont think it heard your applause !


 


Originally Posted by: nickl 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Thats what I thought! Fantastic viewing. Beast, ramp away

nickl
07 January 2014 21:25:07

with a cold easterly, holland is better placed than we are. the ecm control a case in point this evening. it would not be nearly as cold for the uk.

Ally Pally Snowman
07 January 2014 21:28:17
Updated And as expected coldest of the winter. Op was very much on the mild side. The Control is a thing of beauty. 5 steps forward today towards a cold spell.

http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/index.php?run=12 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
future_is_orange
07 January 2014 21:37:43


with a cold easterly, holland is better placed than we are. the ecm control a case in point this evening. it would not be nearly as cold for the uk.


Originally Posted by: nickl 


Amsterdam, Rotterdam or the Hague never likely to be significantly colder than the UK mainland even in an easterly.

Gooner
07 January 2014 21:39:48

Updated And as expected coldest of the winter. Op was very much on the mild side. The Control is a thing of beauty. 5 steps forward today towards a cold spell. Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

">http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/index.php?run=12


A good set there for sure, yes for Holland but still wold be cold for the UK


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Arcus
07 January 2014 21:45:47


with a cold easterly, holland is better placed than we are. the ecm control a case in point this evening. it would not be nearly as cold for the uk.


Originally Posted by: nickl 



LP to the S/SE of the UK, Scandi High, cold air being drawn across the N Sea affecting northern 2/3rds of the UK, southern areas and near continent being affected by the warmer air associated with the LP. More common than you might think.


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
doctormog
07 January 2014 21:47:16

http://www.meteociel.fr/ukmo/runs/2014010712/UN144-21.GIF?07-21  Nothing to get excited about

Originally Posted by: some faraway beach 

528 decametre line somewhere in the English Channel. OK. Maybe "excited" isn't the word, but "pleasing" would be about right.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

The 528dam (500-1000hPa) line is in a line from somewhere over Ireland to the far NW of Scotland on that chart according to my "at a glance" calculations. 😄

Originally Posted by: some faraway beach 


Really? I make the blue shade in the middle of the English Channel to be representing 532 dam on that 500 hPA chart. It lies within the 1010 mb isobar, so that is, roughly, 532 - ((1010-1000)x0.8) dam for the 500-1000hPa value.
But very happy to be corrected if I've got the formula and/or arithmetic wrong.

Originally Posted by: Gooner 



😊 I had misread the SLP on the European chart. From Rob's zoomed in UK view I can see that you were correct. My apologies. 😄
some faraway beach
07 January 2014 21:50:15

No problem, doc. Great to have it confirmed.


That SE-pointing low over us is an odd (and welcome) shape, so it's easy to misread the isobars.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
nickl
07 January 2014 22:01:13



with a cold easterly, holland is better placed than we are. the ecm control a case in point this evening. it would not be nearly as cold for the uk.

Originally Posted by: future_is_orange 


Amsterdam, Rotterdam or the Hague never likely to be significantly colder than the UK mainland even in an easterly.

Originally Posted by: nickl 


no, seriously, the control is significantly colder for holland than here. in most easterlies, the uk is the end of the line. holland is not. thats my point. are you seriously saying that holland will not be colder than the uk in an easterly? havent you noticed the north sea ?
also, arcus, i agree with your scenario but that isnt the case on the control.
colin46
07 January 2014 22:01:38
It'll all go tits up in the morning
shine on you crazy diamond
192.104 m / 630.262 feet ASL
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