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Sevendust
13 January 2014 07:46:54


I notice the meto builds a scandi HP of sorts by T120. Not much point in going too much beyond that given the fickle nature of M.O. but at least its a potential disrupter

Rob K
13 January 2014 07:59:31


No proper cold air this side of Moscow though.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Maunder Minimum
13 January 2014 08:06:10


Surely, we are not going to get fooled again, are we?


That said, it is freezing cold with a biting easterly here in Copenhagen this morning. Snow is forecast for today, so I hope it materialises.


New world order coming.
The Beast from the East
13 January 2014 08:14:26


 


Surely, we are not going to get fooled again, are we?


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


The Express may eventually get it right!


I think Ian F said yesterday that 15% of MOGREPS were showing the sort of evolution we have seen from the last 2 ECM ops


A trend or just a false dawn. Hard to say but the fat lady is not coming out yet


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
13 January 2014 08:16:48

GFS has moved toward ECM with a series of sliders which may provide interest for the north


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1681.png


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
GIBBY
13 January 2014 08:36:16

Good morning everyone. A new week but will the weather this week look any different to recently. Well here is my take on the outputs of the NWP for the next 10-14 days issued at midnight on Monday January 13th 2014 and lifted from http://www.norton-radstockweather.co.uk/Model-Analysis(2859336).htm


All models show Low pressure in the Atlantic with an unstable SW flow over the UK. A trough will move West to East through Britain today enhancing showers as it goes heaviest in the South and West. A ridge of High pressure follows tomorrow with showers restricted to the far NW as a result. Later in the day a new depression and fronts approach Western Britain and sweep East tomorrow night and Wednesday with rain and strong winds for all, heavy at times. Through Wednesday more showery weather will spread across Britain though a frontal wave across the South could delay the clearance here. The rest of the week and weekend looks very unsettled with the UK covered in relatively Low pressure with various features enhancing showers or producing longer spells of rain at times and with some snow at times on Northern hills.


GFS then moves into it's second half this morning with chilly NW winds with further rain at times and snow on hills. Later in the week the weather dries up from the SW as a stronger ridge passes over with some frost at night before milder Atlantic winds return before the end of the run with fronts bringing rain, this time more especially over Northern Britain.


The GFS Ensembles generally back up the operational model very well though if anything it delays the slight improvement illustrated in Week 2 to the very end of the period. With very average uppers across the UK throughout it looks unlikely there will be much in the way of wintry weather with rain at times likely throughout.


UKMO closes it's run with next Sunday looking unsettled with Low pressure positioned over Iceland with an open trough structure South and SE over and around the UK. As a result while there will be some dry weather especially inland the risk of rain or heavy showers is high in temperatures close to or a little below average sufficiently so for some Northern hill snow in places at times.


GEM continues the unsettled weather throughout it's later stages this morning with disturbances running ESE or East across the UK with rain events followed by sunshine and showers in brisk winds continuing right out towards the end of next week. As with the other models despite feeling chilly in the wind at times temperatures will remain close to just a fraction below average with some snow events on the higher Northern hills at times.


NAVGEM closes it's run with a Low positioned in the Southern North Sea with a chilly NW flow producing sunshine and scattered wintry showers. Looking over the horizon beyond termination of the run there seems little to stop further westerly winds and fronts to continue the unsettled and breezy pattern.


ECM shows a much colder feel next week although not remarkably so. High pressure to the SW and over Eastern Europe are trying desperately hard to link next week with the UK in the meeting ground with Low pressure troughs amalgamating and weakening in situ over the UK. There would be some rain at times and possibly sleet or snow over the hills with an Easterly flow for a day or two before slack winds in rather cold air become present later next week.


The ECM 9 and 10 Day Mean Charts are back to it's UK trough scenario looking the bias between the members of it's ensemble group this morning with therefore the most likely prospect of a continuation of the unsettled and changeable pattern with rain at times with High pressure too far to the NE and SW.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2161.gif
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2401.gif


The Jet Stream today looks like continuing to blow somewhat weaker than of late. Nevertheless it continues to influence the UK weather as it flows East over the Atlantic and then dips SE to the South of the UK and on over Southern Europe. This maintains a UK based trough for some considerable time bisected by High pressure over Eastern Europe and the Azores.


In Summary the weather remains in an unsettled vein this morning with all models posting a lot of Low pressure based charts for the UK. As a result we can all expect further rain and showers across the UK for the next 10-14 days with only small but subtle differences in conditions day to day. Temperatures will never be overly mild and it may feel a little chilly at times in fresh breezes and temperatures close to or a fraction below average. There is the chance of some snow at times over Northern hills and if this morning's ECM operational run is to be believed this may extend to Southern hills too for a time next week. Despite this though there seems little to suggest we will be entering a anticyclonic cold spell soon so unfortunately the flooding risk though lessened continues for parts of the UK through the period of this morning's output.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
roger63
13 January 2014 08:37:31


You've picked up on the ony ray of light in the entire model output this morning.Even GEFS has no straws to clutch at.So we can resign ourselves to at least a week of nothing remotely cold even though our friendly  HP to the north east will be forming.

The Beast from the East
13 January 2014 09:09:15


 


Even GEFS has no straws to clutch


 


Originally Posted by: roger63 


 


There are a few like this one


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gens-2-1-192.png?0


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
13 January 2014 09:42:38

Large amount of very cold air getting established in Russia - something needed to nudge it this way


http://www.wxmaps.org/pix/temp4.html


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
johnm1976
13 January 2014 09:47:14
For those who are interested there must be a signal for another strat warming event as the last few GFS op runs have picked it out consistently. Hopefully it will remain a feature and start moving towards the reliable time frame.

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=384&mode=10&carte=1 

You never know, if it verifies a 3rd wave warming might finally blast the PV away! Sod's law says it will give us a medieval Spring 🙂.

How anyone can say winter is over I don't really understand, unless you think a good winter means all 3 months sub zero CET.

There's tons of scatter in the cross model ensembles (although nothing very cold that I can see - they possibly trend colder than average on both ECM and GFS), speaking of which none of the models are in regular agreement and at times that disagreement has been at the edge of the 'reliable' time frame. ECM has upgraded to a cold incursion, most of the models have recently toyed with rising Atlantic/ Scandinavian pressure even though it eventually gets flattened or pushed away and there's a signal for a strat warming on GFS.

And winter ends in 6 weeks.

Plenty to watch 🙂.
NickR
13 January 2014 09:52:24

For those who are interested there must be a signal for another strat warming event as the last few GFS op runs have picked it out consistently. Hopefully it will remain a feature and start moving towards the reliable time frame.

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=384&mode=10&carte=1

You never know, if it verifies a 3rd wave warming might finally blast the PV away! Sod's law says it will give us a medieval Spring 🙂.

How anyone can say winter is over I don't really understand, unless you think a good winter means all 3 months sub zero CET.

There's tons of scatter in the cross model ensembles (although nothing very cold that I can see - they possibly trend colder than average on both ECM and GFS), speaking of which none of the models are in regular agreement and at times that disagreement has been at the edge of the 'reliable' time frame. ECM has upgraded to a cold incursion, most of the models have recently toyed with rising Atlantic/ Scandinavian pressure even though it eventually gets flattened or pushed away and there's a signal for a strat warming on GFS.

And winter ends in 6 weeks.

Plenty to watch 🙂.

Originally Posted by: johnm1976 


Worth remembering what happened in 2013 after this end-of-February "cut-off" point (and for about 8 weeks afterwards!).


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
Gooner
13 January 2014 09:53:03



Surely, we are not going to get fooled again, are we?


That said, it is freezing cold with a biting easterly here in Copenhagen this morning. Snow is forecast for today, so I hope it materialises.


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Yes, why change the habit of a lifetime


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
13 January 2014 09:54:17



You've picked up on the ony ray of light in the entire model output this morning.Even GEFS has no straws to clutch at.So we can resign ourselves to at least a week of nothing remotely cold even though our friendly  HP to the north east will be forming.


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


The under dog sometimes wins , I'm backing it


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


David M Porter
13 January 2014 09:57:58

For those who are interested there must be a signal for another strat warming event as the last few GFS op runs have picked it out consistently. Hopefully it will remain a feature and start moving towards the reliable time frame.

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=384&mode=10&carte=1

You never know, if it verifies a 3rd wave warming might finally blast the PV away! Sod's law says it will give us a medieval Spring 🙂.

How anyone can say winter is over I don't really understand, unless you think a good winter means all 3 months sub zero CET.

There's tons of scatter in the cross model ensembles (although nothing very cold that I can see - they possibly trend colder than average on both ECM and GFS), speaking of which none of the models are in regular agreement and at times that disagreement has been at the edge of the 'reliable' time frame. ECM has upgraded to a cold incursion, most of the models have recently toyed with rising Atlantic/ Scandinavian pressure even though it eventually gets flattened or pushed away and there's a signal for a strat warming on GFS.

And winter ends in 6 weeks.

Plenty to watch 🙂.

Originally Posted by: johnm1976 


Indeed, and that's why I can't understand either anyone claiming it's all over for cold weather when we've still so many weeks of it to go.


Several years ago one member famously claimed that winter was over in the early days of February in the face of seemingly poor model output at the time. However not a great many days later, he had to eat his words. Shows you just how fickle the models can be sometimes.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Charmhills
13 January 2014 10:04:24

Remaining unsettled of not very unsettled with rain or showers and never overly cold either, even into FI.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1682.gif


A poor mans easterly from the ECM 00z.


 


 


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
sriram
13 January 2014 11:07:20
What will be really bad is if we don't get severe cold and snow - and by the same token don't break the mildest winter on record or at least enter the top 5

Being stuck in average to coolish temp neither severe cold or mild and end in no mans land

That will be a nightmare
Sriram
Sedgley, West Midlands ( just south of Wolverhampton )
162m ASL
Saint Snow
13 January 2014 11:18:09

What will be really bad is if we don't get severe cold and snow - and by the same token don't break the mildest winter on record or at least enter the top 5

Being stuck in average to coolish temp neither severe cold or mild and end in no mans land

That will be a nightmare

Originally Posted by: sriram 


 


Personally speaking, it makes little difference to me whether this winter is ranked 1st, 5th, 10th or 20th mildest on record. It'll still have been rubbish.


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
colin46
13 January 2014 11:33:06

I wonder if we could gather a few hundred thousand people and jet off to siberia,get them to face the u.k and continually blow. That might work!!


shine on you crazy diamond
192.104 m / 630.262 feet ASL
tallyho_83
13 January 2014 11:36:32
Dire set of runs this morning not even one colder day!!
Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


ARTzeman
13 January 2014 12:08:26

This must be the other groaning thread now..


At least outputs are showing same old weather...For now....






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
jondg14
13 January 2014 12:21:30

For those who are interested there must be a signal for another strat warming event as the last few GFS op runs have picked it out consistently. Hopefully it will remain a feature and start moving towards the reliable time frame.

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=384&mode=10&carte=1

You never know, if it verifies a 3rd wave warming might finally blast the PV away! Sod's law says it will give us a medieval Spring 🙂.

How anyone can say winter is over I don't really understand, unless you think a good winter means all 3 months sub zero CET.

There's tons of scatter in the cross model ensembles (although nothing very cold that I can see - they possibly trend colder than average on both ECM and GFS), speaking of which none of the models are in regular agreement and at times that disagreement has been at the edge of the 'reliable' time frame. ECM has upgraded to a cold incursion, most of the models have recently toyed with rising Atlantic/ Scandinavian pressure even though it eventually gets flattened or pushed away and there's a signal for a strat warming on GFS.

And winter ends in 6 weeks.

Plenty to watch 🙂.

Originally Posted by: johnm1976 


The strat warming straw is the one to clutch at even though it feels like we have been pinning our hopes on this all winter. The graph below does look more promising


http://users.met.fu-berlin.de/~Aktuell/strat-www/wdiag/figs/ecmwf1/temps.gif


Winter isn't over but if we aren't going to get any spells of snow/frost I'd prefer mild. Chilly and damp is not of interest 

johnm1976
13 January 2014 12:28:22


For those who are interested there must be a signal for another strat warming event as the last few GFS op runs have picked it out consistently. Hopefully it will remain a feature and start moving towards the reliable time frame.

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=384&mode=10&carte=1

You never know, if it verifies a 3rd wave warming might finally blast the PV away! Sod's law says it will give us a medieval Spring 🙂.

How anyone can say winter is over I don't really understand, unless you think a good winter means all 3 months sub zero CET.

There's tons of scatter in the cross model ensembles (although nothing very cold that I can see - they possibly trend colder than average on both ECM and GFS), speaking of which none of the models are in regular agreement and at times that disagreement has been at the edge of the 'reliable' time frame. ECM has upgraded to a cold incursion, most of the models have recently toyed with rising Atlantic/ Scandinavian pressure even though it eventually gets flattened or pushed away and there's a signal for a strat warming on GFS.

And winter ends in 6 weeks.

Plenty to watch 🙂.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Indeed, and that's why I can't understand either anyone claiming it's all over for cold weather when we've still so many weeks of it to go.


Several years ago one member famously claimed that winter was over in the early days of February in the face of seemingly poor model output at the time. However not a great many days later, he had to eat his words. Shows you just how fickle the models can be sometimes.


Originally Posted by: johnm1976 


Yep. People speak about the winters of the 80s but my memory of those is that they tended to deliver late. Could be a false memory of course, but December 2009/ 2010 were freaks - the temp differential between the pole and tropical air usually fuels the jet in Early winter and most Decembers are somewhat autumnal.


You only have to go back to Feb 2009 to find a very nice February cold spell which delieverd nationwide snow and ice days.


This happened at the tail end of anotherwise moribund winter!


That, incidentally, came on the back of a strat warming.


 


Personally I like looking at the strat in the absence of discernible trophospheric ensemble trends, speaking of which the warming is still present on GFS 6z....


 


 

The Beast from the East
13 January 2014 12:35:23

http://www.weathercast.co.uk/services/ensemble-forecast.html


London ECM ens


Nothing spectacular but a lot better than GFS


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
johnm1976
13 January 2014 12:37:14


For those who are interested there must be a signal for another strat warming event as the last few GFS op runs have picked it out consistently. Hopefully it will remain a feature and start moving towards the reliable time frame.

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=384&mode=10&carte=1

You never know, if it verifies a 3rd wave warming might finally blast the PV away! Sod's law says it will give us a medieval Spring 🙂.

How anyone can say winter is over I don't really understand, unless you think a good winter means all 3 months sub zero CET.

There's tons of scatter in the cross model ensembles (although nothing very cold that I can see - they possibly trend colder than average on both ECM and GFS), speaking of which none of the models are in regular agreement and at times that disagreement has been at the edge of the 'reliable' time frame. ECM has upgraded to a cold incursion, most of the models have recently toyed with rising Atlantic/ Scandinavian pressure even though it eventually gets flattened or pushed away and there's a signal for a strat warming on GFS.

And winter ends in 6 weeks.

Plenty to watch 🙂.

Originally Posted by: jondg14 


The strat warming straw is the one to clutch at even though it feels like we have been pinning our hopes on this all winter. The graph below does look more promising


http://users.met.fu-berlin.de/~Aktuell/strat-www/wdiag/figs/ecmwf1/temps.gif


Winter isn't over but if we aren't going to get any spells of snow/frost I'd prefer mild. Chilly and damp is not of interest 


Originally Posted by: johnm1976 


One of the issues IMO is that the strat has been so cold this winter that it's taken a couple of waves (one of which was reasonably significant) just to displace it - in other winters the kind of warming that occurred at the end of December might have actually broken the vortex.


Zonal winds weren't loking too bad on the EC 10 dayer when I looked yesterday - sorry I don't have a link.. maybe someone else can post?

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