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Brian Gaze
23 September 2014 06:22:52

A big upgrade to the GFS model is planned to go live in November 2014.


Read about it here:


http://www.emc.ncep.noaa.gov/GFS/impl.php


Key changes include:


Finer horizontal grid, 23km to 12km
High resolution deterministic forecast extended from 8 days to 10 days
Output datasets available to 0.25deg in addition to current 0.5deg
Better handling of gravity wave forcing and drag


What this means:
- GFS still isn't likely to verify as well as ECM because it will continue to run 4x daily with a lighter data payload. 


- Automated forecasts should be marginally better across the board and possibly noticeably better for some locations due to the increased resolution of the output datasets where they are used. In the UK locations on the south western peninsula may benefit significantly


What this doesn't mean:
- A forecasting revolution. We're at the stage and have been for a long time when finer model grids and higher resolution output datasets lead to marginal improvements


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
idj20
23 September 2014 07:43:13

And just in time for the "silly season" too.


 


Folkestone Harbour. 
Stormchaser
23 September 2014 09:46:33

Finally catching up with efforts this side of the pond!


 


During my dissertation project I discovered just how much finer the resolution can go when working on a regional scale instead of global; the models used were at 1.5km, 0.5km and 0.2km resolutions!


Here's a snapshot of what a 200m model looks like when modelling deep convection:




The values on the y-axis are the number of grid-lengths, so 200 is 200 x 200m = 40000m or 40km.


I think that's about as much as I'm allowed to put across at the moment - though the dissertation will one day become freely available in the departmental library in Reading, and perhaps online somewhere.


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Gavin P
23 September 2014 12:15:47

Interesting news. Thanks Brian.


They seem to upgrade the GFS model every year.


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
nsrobins
23 September 2014 13:48:18


Finally catching up with efforts this side of the pond!


 


During my dissertation project I discovered just how much finer the resolution can go when working on a regional scale instead of global; the models used were at 1.5km, 0.5km and 0.2km resolutions!


Here's a snapshot of what a 200m model looks like when modelling deep convection:




The values on the y-axis are the number of grid-lengths, so 200 is 200 x 200m = 40000m or 40km.


I think that's about as much as I'm allowed to put across at the moment - though the dissertation will one day become freely available in the departmental library in Reading, and perhaps online somewhere.


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


I'm not entirely convinced a finer resolution leads to a more accurate outcome as a not insignificant factor is the quality of data input.
Also SC should that grid be a data cube in m3 


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Stormchaser
23 September 2014 19:38:57


I'm not entirely convinced a finer resolution leads to a more accurate outcome as a not insignificant factor is the quality of data input.


Also SC should that grid be a data cube in m3 


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Improvements occur with the thermodynamics and the like, meaning better representation of convection, but there is a fundamental limit to how accurate the models can be regarding where small scale features are at specific times, so we can never realistically expect an accurate prediction for then there will be a shower at Wimbledon, for example.


Frontal features tend to verify better, but the exact timing remains a target behind bulletproof glass.


 


Regarding the grid, there is a vertical element - I was just referring to the distance latitudinally in my earlier post.


Having said that, the resolution is considred to be 200m2 with 140 vertical levels - twice what the operational UKV model has, as this was needed to prevent erroneous tendencies that were observed in earlier studies, such as excessive cell development and organisation - though my study found evidence to suggest that this wasn't entirely eradicated.


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schmee
23 September 2014 23:47:12
Thank you Brian. 😊
Observations from around GUILDFORD in SURREY and now Nottingham
nsrobins
25 September 2014 13:22:41



I'm not entirely convinced a finer resolution leads to a more accurate outcome as a not insignificant factor is the quality of data input.


Also SC should that grid be a data cube in m3 


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


Improvements occur with the thermodynamics and the like, meaning better representation of convection, but there is a fundamental limit to how accurate the models can be regarding where small scale features are at specific times, so we can never realistically expect an accurate prediction for then there will be a shower at Wimbledon, for example.


Frontal features tend to verify better, but the exact timing remains a target behind bulletproof glass.


 


Regarding the grid, there is a vertical element - I was just referring to the distance latitudinally in my earlier post.


Having said that, the resolution is considred to be 200m2 with 140 vertical levels - twice what the operational UKV model has, as this was needed to prevent erroneous tendencies that were observed in earlier studies, such as excessive cell development and organisation - though my study found evidence to suggest that this wasn't entirely eradicated.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Cheers SC and good luck with the research - keep us updated!


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Stormchaser
26 September 2014 16:47:39


Cheers SC and good luck with the research - keep us updated!


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


 


Thanks, I enjoy being able to discover new things as I work - in fact with any luck, I'll some day (soon I hope) land a PhD studying convection or teleconnections, something like that, in which case I'll be able to continue studying and discovering while earning a bit of cash along the way cool


 


Alternatively, I'll work as an operational meteorologist at the Met Office. Whatever opportunity comes my way really laughing


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

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Brian Gaze
26 October 2014 18:39:42

This is scheduled for December 9th 2014.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Stormchaser
26 October 2014 23:41:12


This is scheduled for December 9th 2014.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


...which will of course be right after an epic cold spell handled terribly by the current model 


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Brian Gaze
08 November 2014 16:57:07

The GFS upgrade is now scheduled for December 17th. The 'exec summary' is:


Results are reasonable
Improved precipitation skill scores
Improved hurricane track in Atlantic and Western Pacific, but worsened in Eastern Pacific; Reduced intensity errors in all basins.
Reduced mid-latitude storm track errors.
Reduced global mean temperature bias in the upper troposphere; strengthened (improved) tropospheric winds but slightly weakened stratospheric winds.
Reduced nighttime 2m temperature cold bias over the Northern Great Plains. Large biases still exist in Northeast and Southwest.
improved 500-hPa HGT AC in both the Northern and Southern Hemispheres.


I'll start making the parallel run available on TWO next week. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Brian Gaze
11 November 2014 17:13:01

GFS GSM v12.0.0 parallel run is now available on the TWO chart viewer. Switch between Parallel and Operational then use the GFS charts as normal:


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx


- The parallel run isn't currently in production so may not always be available (go live is scheduled for December 17th but is subject to change)
- Most but not all of the charts available for the operational run are also available for the parallel run

The horizontal resolution of the underlying model is 13km.

The resolution of the datasets being rendered is currently:

0 to 120 hours 0.25deg
123 to 180 hours 0.5deg
183 to 384 hours 1.0deg


I may change these.

The charts on TWO will in future be stepped at 3 hour intervals out to 240 hours instead of 180 hours but the chart viewer hasn't yet been updated to give direct links to 183, 186.....237.




Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Brian Gaze
14 November 2014 18:17:12

The official message is:


The 30-day parallel evaluation of the 2014 GFS upgrade will be restarted soon. Several users noticed issues that are being fixed by the GFS developers. Implementation will occur in January 2015.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

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