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JACKO4EVER
11 December 2014 16:03:33
A good signal now for a milder interlude next week, it could even get very mild which is fine by me. Nothing like a long fetch SW to keep those heating bills down!
nsrobins
11 December 2014 16:27:23

A good signal now for a milder interlude next week, it could even get very mild which is fine by me. Nothing like a long fetch SW to keep those heating bills down!

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Its not a long-fetched SW though it. Rather a returning mP regime which is very unlikely to see temps in the very mild bracket, even this early in the winter.

As for longer term, the MetO extended and discussion about SWWs, etc remain the only straw to clutch for coldies for now. I have a sneaky suspicion that at some point over the weekend we will start to see FI charts of real promise


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
David M Porter
11 December 2014 16:30:00

A good signal now for a milder interlude next week, it could even get very mild which is fine by me. Nothing like a long fetch SW to keep those heating bills down!

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


I'd make the most of it if I were you; it doesn't look like being a long lasting mild spell if the models have it right.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Solar Cycles
11 December 2014 16:41:30
Ian Ferguson remains adamant that the signal for a pattern change at the end of the month is still showing on the GLOSEA 5 model, all talk of mildness from here on looks a tad premature more so since the short to medium term outlook by the MetO is for much of the same as the last week or so.
Andy Woodcock
11 December 2014 16:54:50

Unless the latest GFS has it badly wrong this current spell of cold north westerlies will be the last for a while as further incursions of PM air are from a westerly point and milder with temperatures near rather than below average.


Its all down to the eastward displacement of the AH to southern Europe which has been modelled for some time.


Gfs might be wrong of course but it doesn't look too good at the moment.


Andy


Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
Solar Cycles
11 December 2014 16:56:30


Unless the latest GFS has it badly wrong this current spell of cold north westerlies will be the last for a while as further incursions of PM air are from a westerly point and milder with temperatures near rather than below average.


Its all down to the eastward displacement of the AH to southern Europe which has been modelled for some time.


Gfs might be wrong of course but it doesn't look too good at the moment.


Andy


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 

I think next week will see more of an influence of TM air but thereafter rinse and repeat of this week looks the form horse IMO.

colin46
11 December 2014 17:22:30


 


Its not a long-fetched SW though it. Rather a returning mP regime which is very unlikely to see temps in the very mild bracket, even this early in the winter.

As for longer term, the MetO extended and discussion about SWWs, etc remain the only straw to clutch for coldies for now. I have a sneaky suspicion that at some point over the weekend we will start to see FI charts of real promise


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 

yes but FL charts are just that 'fantasy' which means they mean absolutely nothing and are completely pointless!!


shine on you crazy diamond
192.104 m / 630.262 feet ASL
White Meadows
11 December 2014 17:29:15

Ian Ferguson remains adamant that the signal for a pattern change at the end of the month is still showing on the GLOSEA 5 model, all talk of mildness from here on looks a tad premature more so since the short to medium term outlook by the MetO is for much of the same as the last week or so.

Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 


Small hints at a less positive NAO towards month/ year end: 


http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/pna/new.nao_index_ensm.html


But this and whatever the GloSea5 model shows is likely to flip around based on January 14's SWW red herring. This is why I think the Met 30 day written hint at cold will most likely be gone in the coming days.

Maunder Minimum
11 December 2014 17:30:50


yes but FL charts are just that 'fantasy' which means they mean absolutely nothing and are completely pointless!!


Originally Posted by: colin46 


Completely pointless in terms of pinning down the detail, but not completely pointless in terms of analysing trends. If all the models start showing some form of blocking in FI, then we can start to believe that it might happen on the balance of probabilities - not will happen of course, since it is common for the models to show some eastern promise, only to snatch it away again, but still useful. Better to see some eastern promise in FI than the horrible gunk we saw week after week last winter - last winter, I don't think the models even got around to attempting to fool us - the weather was stuck in such a rut that even Fantasy Island charts failed to materialise. I want to forget last winter (weatherwise that is).


New world order coming.
Stormchaser
11 December 2014 17:46:11

True to say that the emphasis on cold has always been reserved for January with a chance of February joining in as well, with few daring to expect anything significant in December.


 


As for the 12z op runs so far, GFS continues to power the Atlantic along without much change to its tune, while GFSP continues to show quite a bit of amplification setting in 23rd-26th December. On this run it leads to an intense cold plunge from the north... just over the other side of the North Sea 


Hopefully this idea of a weakening, meandering jet is closer to the truth, even if we just get a 'stable Christmas' under a UK high.


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doctormog
11 December 2014 17:54:21
Overall it looks like the mild/average to cool/average western train is set to continue with periods of rain or showers interspersed with cooler periods and some wintry showers with snow on high ground, especiLly in the NW.

Being a westerly flow it will no doubt stay dry here unless the wind veers NWly as it may do occasionally.

No real change seems evident in today's output so far. All in all rather "normal"
Solar Cycles
11 December 2014 18:30:07


 


Small hints at a less positive NAO towards month/ year end: 


http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/pna/new.nao_index_ensm.html


But this and whatever the GloSea5 model shows is likely to flip around based on January 14's SWW red herring. This is why I think the Met 30 day written hint at cold will most likely be gone in the coming days.


Originally Posted by: White Meadows 

Not according to Ian F, remember they are privy to info we never see and nothing has changed in their views today, of course it may well change and you could be right but I've a feeling the signal will grow stronger as the month progresses.

David M Porter
11 December 2014 18:40:24


 


Completely pointless in terms of pinning down the detail, but not completely pointless in terms of analysing trends. If all the models start showing some form of blocking in FI, then we can start to believe that it might happen on the balance of probabilities - not will happen of course, since it is common for the models to show some eastern promise, only to snatch it away again, but still useful. Better to see some eastern promise in FI than the horrible gunk we saw week after week last winter - last winter, I don't think the models even got around to attempting to fool us - the weather was stuck in such a rut that even Fantasy Island charts failed to materialise. I want to forget last winter (weatherwise that is).


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


I reckon that goes for the majority of us here, MM.


As far as the models go right now, while none are showing any "holy grail" type set-ups for cold, IMO the model runs generally right now are no worse or even as bad as we saw throughout last December, January and February. Never can I recall any previous winter on here that had such relentlessly dull and uninspiring output as last winter did.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
nsrobins
11 December 2014 18:54:19


yes but FL charts are just that 'fantasy' which means they mean absolutely nothing and are completely pointless!!


Originally Posted by: colin46 


I was merely pointing out that it's not mT type flow but rPm.


Anyway the GFS control hints at some decent WAA up towards Greenland in the latter stages.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Andy Woodcock
11 December 2014 19:06:17
ECM continues the cold theme up north but develops by +168 a large temperature difference across the UK with uppers ranging from +5c in Plymouth to -5c in Glasgow! That would bring some contrasting conditions at the surface.

In fact apart from the +240 Scotland is cold throughout the run after the milder blip early next week.

Some big mountain snowfall totals mounting up if ECM verifys.

Andy
Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
11 December 2014 19:16:41

Straws available for clutching are indeed thin on the ground this evening. All the models appear to show the Azores High firmly in charge for the foreseeable. At least its good for the UK economy, and lower heating bills and food prices. I might have to head for the northern hills to get my fix of wintry weather though.


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Brian Gaze
11 December 2014 19:18:31


True to say that the emphasis on cold has always been reserved for January with a chance of February joining in as well, with few daring to expect anything significant in December.


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


Climatology.  But yes, I agree with you.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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Andy Woodcock
11 December 2014 19:27:03


Climatology.  But yes, I agree with you.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


All the following Decembers were mild or very mild with little or no cold weather.


1946, 1954, 1955, 1977, 1984, 1985, 1986


Decembers have tended to be colder in recent years raising unrealistic expectations.


Andy


Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
David M Porter
11 December 2014 19:37:15


 


All the following Decembers were mild or very mild with little or no cold weather.


1946, 1954, 1955, 1977, 1984, 1985, 1986


Decembers have tended to be colder in recent years raising unrealistic expectations.


Andy


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


The Decembers of 1984, 1985 and 1986, while all fairly mild months themselves, were all followed by spells of much colder weather after the turn of the year. The freezing December of 1981 was the exception to the rule in the 80's, much like December 2010 has been during this decade thus far.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Whether Idle
11 December 2014 20:06:38

IIRC the following Decembers were mild


1974, 1975, 1979, 1980, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1994, 1998, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2013


and were followed by milder than average winters.  The point being that a mild December is probably more likely than not to be followed by a mild winter, especially when the jet is strong, as it currently appears to be. 


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Stormchaser
11 December 2014 20:28:18

Last December I had some exciting wind and rain events to follow, this December... yawn. The outlook as of this evening is about as tedious as I can remember to be honest! Saying that, I wasn't chart-following back in the reportedly dreadful late 90's/early 00's winters.


 


The ECM run was almost interesting at day 8 (+192) but then a massive surge of westward momentum flattens the pattern across the entire northern hemisphere.


I must say, I do find that unconvincing, though not as much as the giant bowling ball low over Scandi that just rolls on east as if there was no east Asian high whatsoever... pull the other one I say!


 


As you can probably tell, I'm unable to find any real positive trends tonight. Really the model output is heavily lacking in cross-model and run-to-run consistency, with ECM the most unstable of all, having hurled itself from one of the most amplified 00z op runs to one of the flattest 12z op runs.


 


Now, if you really want to give the rose-tinted spectacles an airing, an old rule of thumb that comes up every now and then is that highly inconsistent modelling, with a strong tendency to 'revert to zonal', usually precedes a pattern change.


...but to be honest I'd rather leave my hopes with stratosphere-driven changes at the very end of this month or not long into next, which has always been by far the most likely 'get out of jail card' within the foreseeable future. At the very worst, we'd at least see the pattern shuffled about a lot to give a different variety of weather.


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JACKO4EVER
11 December 2014 20:29:39
It's all a bit pointless pattern matching IMO. It's like saying, as an example, Man City won four games on the trot in December 63, so they are bound to win all of their games this year as they have already won two this December. It just makes no sense at all to me. It's zonal for the foreseeable and that's a fact. At least it won't be too cold next week, this rain and raw wind has been pretty grim in my neck of the woods recently.
Essan
11 December 2014 20:32:27


IIRC the following Decembers were mild


Edit: see above


and were followed by milder than average winters.  The point being that a mild December is probably more likely than not to be followed by a mild winter, especially when the jet is strong, as it currently appears to be. 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 



But this December does not look like being mild ....


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
David M Porter
11 December 2014 20:36:15




But this December does not look like being mild ....


Originally Posted by: Essan 


It sure hasn't been mild here thus far. I struggle to think of one properly mild day there has been in my location since December started a week past Monday. Last December from what I recall had numerous mild days here in the lead-up to the start of the long-lasting zonal spell in mid-month.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Polar Low
11 December 2014 20:38:58

 I guess im getting old would take a mild winter if we had famous moments like this got stuck on a bus and had to walk many miles home from work in s/e England white out conditions at times


some of those winters had there moments even if mild overall


 Feb1991 Ian McCaskill famous winter stutter at around 2min in


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd6DuebHliY

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