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Brendon Hills Bandit
12 February 2016 20:25:40
I have a question for any of the more weather science savvy members of this forum: Do you think that the North Atlantic 'cold blob' of below average SSTs has been the 'fly in the ointment' this winter?
Has it perhaps encouraged zonality and high pressure over France, discouraged HLB, and maybe overriden the MJO forcing to some extent?

Thank you for any replies.
220m asl, edge of Brendon Hills
Islander
12 February 2016 20:35:07
Pub run pub run, needs to save us! Currently in a pub wishing.... Sorry if OT! Back to my drink, hic 🍻🍷😬
Guernsey
roger63
12 February 2016 21:36:56

I have a question for any of the more weather science savvy members of this forum: Do you think that the North Atlantic 'cold blob' of below average SSTs has been the 'fly in the ointment' this winter?
Has it perhaps encouraged zonality and high pressure over France, discouraged HLB, and maybe overriden the MJO forcing to some extent?

Thank you for any replies.

Originally Posted by: Brendon Hills Bandit 


I think the strongest influence has been the near record strong El Nino  which encourages a strong NAO + circulation ie mild cand windy.


Not sure what the cold SST,s do but suspect they add to rather than subtract from the generation of Atlantic LP's

Islander
12 February 2016 22:31:10
Here we go again!! 😜
Guernsey
tallyho_83
12 February 2016 23:22:58

Some very unusually warm and dry weather toward the end of the month!! Winds coming all the way up from N. Africa and Spain. It's a long way off but I just hope that we get gfs charts like this in the summertime:


 



Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


yorkshirelad89
12 February 2016 23:50:56

http://theconversation.com/weird-weather-blame-the-north-atlantic-53271

Here is an excellent article about the cold blob in the North Atlantic

These are the things I think are most important:



  • Warm SSTs off the US coast and cold SSTs to the south of Greenland, conductive to cold air pouring out of the USA.

  • These have been record breaking in magnitude so some other variable will have to be extremely strong to overcome it.


Hopefully we can see the back of this cold blob and not see another cool westerly based Summer. SSTs have consistently been at very cool / record breakingly cool since January 2014.


However I emphasize that this is speculation... but there is something strange going on in the Atlantic and we seem to be seeing more extreme persistant NAO values. 


According to the Gibraltar-Reykjavik NAO index there will probably be 3 winters in a row with an NAO index above +2.0


Mods feel free to move if off topic but those are my interpretations.


 


Hull
Gandalf The White
13 February 2016 00:53:48


http://theconversation.com/weird-weather-blame-the-north-atlantic-53271

Here is an excellent article about the cold blob in the North Atlantic

These are the things I think are most important:



  • Warm SSTs off the US coast and cold SSTs to the south of Greenland, conductive to cold air pouring out of the USA.

  • These have been record breaking in magnitude so some other variable will have to be extremely strong to overcome it.


Hopefully we can see the back of this cold blob and not see another cool westerly based Summer. SSTs have consistently been at very cool / record breakingly cool since January 2014.


However I emphasize that this is speculation... but there is something strange going on in the Atlantic and we seem to be seeing more extreme persistant NAO values. 


According to the Gibraltar-Reykjavik NAO index there will probably be 3 winters in a row with an NAO index above +2.0


Mods feel free to move if off topic but those are my interpretations.


 


Originally Posted by: yorkshirelad89 


That's an excellent piece.  I will start a new thread in the Climate Forum, as the contents are highly relevant to the discussions that take place there.


That cold anomaly in the north Atlantic has been the subject of discussion in the Climate Forum. As the article says, it stands out starkly against the backdrop of record warmth globally.


 


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


tallyho_83
13 February 2016 00:56:17


 


That's an excellent piece.  I will start a new thread in the Climate Forum, as the contents are highly relevant to the discussions that take place there.


That cold anomaly in the north Atlantic has been the subject of discussion in the Climate Forum. As the article says, it stands out starkly against the backdrop of record warmth globally.


 


 


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


 


That's the confusion - one would have thought that a colder than average SST would mean less powerful named storms - colder air holds less moisture!?? - ALl a bit confusing - so is this due to the sheer strength of the El Nino.


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Gandalf The White
13 February 2016 01:27:29


 


 


That's the confusion - one would have thought that a colder than average SST would mean less powerful named storms - colder air holds less moisture!?? - ALl a bit confusing - so is this due to the sheer strength of the El Nino.


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


Storms are the result of imbalances in the atmosphere; it's temperature contrast that matters.  There has been some discussion of the possible impact of the cold pool. My view is that the very strong El Niño has been far and away the dominant driver: there's a lot of warmth being transferred to the atmosphere in the Pacific and driving the behaviour of the jet stream.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Ally Pally Snowman
13 February 2016 07:42:28

Agreed the midweek snow has reduced significantly in likely hood this morning. But Sunday night Monday morning looks a lot more promising. It's coming with in the hi res models now. NE England looks like the sweet spot at this stage could be good.


 


http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/cgi-bin/expertcharts?LANG=en&MENU=0000000000&CONT=ukuk&MODELL=euro4&MODELLTYP=1&VAR=prty&HH=48&BASE=-&WMO=&ZOOM=0


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Ally Pally Snowman
13 February 2016 07:47:00

GFS takes us into an early spring next weekend. 14c quite widely you wouldn't rule out somewhere hitting 16c!


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/royaume-uni/temperatures-maximales/186h.htm


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
doctormog
13 February 2016 07:50:13
In contrast to the minus double digits tonight...

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/royaume-uni/temperatures-minimales/30h.htm 

Not much get this morning with a generally chilly week then hints of spring in FI.
Gooner
13 February 2016 07:56:01


GFS takes us into an early spring next weekend. 14c quite widely you wouldn't rule out somewhere hitting 16c!


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/royaume-uni/temperatures-maximales/186h.htm


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



Was on the high side of the run though


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
13 February 2016 08:03:26


Snow on leading edge for a time on Wednesday


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


JACKO4EVER
13 February 2016 08:05:15
Well well well, no surprises I suppose. A few frosts will be on offer- much more than we have had for most of this winter I suppose. My eye is now on next weekend- with a bit of luck it could be glorious with sunshine and widely 14-15c. Roll on Spring!
doctormog
13 February 2016 08:07:55



Snow on leading edge for a time on Wednesday


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


A couple of hundred miles is a big leading edge!


Gooner
13 February 2016 08:11:56


 


A couple of hundred miles is a big leading edge!


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


I didnt want to big it up Michael


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


roger63
13 February 2016 08:40:38


 



Was on the high side of the run though


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


 GEFS shows Negative 850 continuing out to the end of next week.And as above shows still plenty of negative members out into FI.However most likely outcome  for the rest of February is the rather cold nothingness as per METO forecast.

Solar Cycles
13 February 2016 08:44:39


 


That's an excellent piece.  I will start a new thread in the Climate Forum, as the contents are highly relevant to the discussions that take place there.


That cold anomaly in the north Atlantic has been the subject of discussion in the Climate Forum. As the article says, it stands out starkly against the backdrop of record warmth globally.


 


 


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

Yes the cold blob, which is a precursor to a switch in the AMO, which has been discussed numerous times including our very own Gav on his highly informative weekly videos.🙂

Sevendust
13 February 2016 09:39:24


GEFS shows Negative 850 continuing out to the end of next week.And as above shows still plenty of negative members out into FI.However most likely outcome  for the rest of February is the rather cold nothingness as per METO forecast.


Originally Posted by: roger63 


The 850 values become less relevant wrt daytime maxes assuming some sunshine as we move out of winter. The suns influence increases markedly in February. In most situations you would need 850's of at least negative 5'c to get anything wintry at ground level away from high ground so once we're through this week it may not be that cold

Sinky1970
13 February 2016 10:08:17
Bit of an upgrade on last night's run, regarding snowfall.
doctormog
Sinky1970
13 February 2016 11:17:44
Main problem will be is the timing & intensity, accumulated snowfall during daylight hours is quite rare, the air/ground will have to be pretty cold for it to settle also. (Main thing is though is it does have to be snow in the first place, which the local bbc have said will be rain or sleet).
roger63
13 February 2016 11:50:01

When can we expect the effects of SSW to appear in the model output?

doctormog
13 February 2016 11:58:29


When can we expect the effects of SSW to appear in the model output?


Originally Posted by: roger63 


I suspect they have been modelled all along? The warming in the stratosphere seems to have been especially well modelled although technically (and this was always the forecast on the Berlin site) it doesn't meet the full SSW criteria as the 10hPa zonal wind flow did not reverse - although it was close.


The global pattern will no doubt have changed as a result. As for the UK - that was and still is a long shot and uncertain/unpredictable link.


However it certainly isn't "off" and one could argue that it was never on, if it was, it happened as predicted.


http://www.geo.fu-berlin.de/en/met/ag/strat/produkte/winterdiagnostics/index.html 


Edit: Looking into it further I'm not sure if this would suggest it did sneak into the category? http://users.met.fu-berlin.de/~Aktuell/strat-www/wdiag/figs/ecmwf1/ecmwfzm_u_a12.gif 


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