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Retron
15 January 2017 16:55:40


3-5c quite widely you quote 7c but that represents 0.01% of the population ,including Darren


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Pfft, I am the 0.01%!


The 12z GFS does indeed manage to bring SW'lies back but interestingly it's not as quick as this morning's runs - it's at 252, two days later than the 24th. The 24th is worth mentioning as the 0z and 6z GEFS, as well as EPS all showed warmer air moving in by then.


 


 


 


Leysdown, north Kent
Chiltern Blizzard
15 January 2017 16:56:12


Well into FI a LP runs across the South



Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Looks very wet in a week.... only a day or so ago, the consensus seemed to be the although the easterly was dead, we'd have a dry and settled January... When you consider how much the model output has changed over the past week....  from no easterly, to easterly brewing, to dry and settled  until month end, to wet and windy within a week now, it's clear that the model output is all over the place, and anyone confidently calling the weather after +120 is a fool!


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
Gooner
15 January 2017 16:57:41


 


Pfft, I am the 0.01%!


The 12z GFS does indeed manage to bring SW'lies back but interestingly it's not as quick as this morning's runs - it's at 240, two days later than the 24th. The 24th is worth mentioning as the 0z and 6z GEFS, as well as EPS all showed warmer air moving in by then.


 


 


 


Originally Posted by: Retron 


No offence Darren


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
15 January 2017 16:59:24


 


Looks very wet in a week.... only a day or so ago, the consensus seemed to be the although the easterly was dead, we'd have a dry and settled January... When you consider how much the model output has changed over the past week....  from no easterly, to easterly brewing, to dry and settled  until month end, to wet and windy within a week now, it's clear that the model output is all over the place, and anyone confidently calling the weather after +120 is a fool!


Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 


Very different to previous runs, my guess and it is a guess, the LP will be gone on the 18z and be missing from the ECM


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Retron
15 January 2017 17:02:25


No offence Darren


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Oh, none taken - I found it funny!


The ensembles are trickling out now and even at 102 it's far from certain... some members have a chilly easterly while others have a calm day under a high. That's for here, mind you, other areas may vary.


Leysdown, north Kent
The Beast from the East
15 January 2017 17:22:55

http://modeles7.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/runs/2017011512/gensnh-11-1-228.png


I'll take this one!


A lot of uncertainty from next weekend


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Gandalf The White
15 January 2017 17:26:56


 


Very different to previous runs, my guess and it is a guess, the LP will be gone on the 18z and be missing from the ECM


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Yes, that LP looks like a very specific combination of an innocuous secondary low that forms off the static LP off Newfoundland which happens to engage with a portion of the jetstream as it approaches the SW Peninsula.  As you say, more likely than not to disappear in the next run.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Rob K
15 January 2017 17:30:08


 


Looks very wet in a week.... only a day or so ago, the consensus seemed to be the although the easterly was dead, we'd have a dry and settled January... When you consider how much the model output has changed over the past week....  from no easterly, to easterly brewing, to dry and settled  until month end, to wet and windy within a week now, it's clear that the model output is all over the place, and anyone confidently calling the weather after +120 is a fool!


Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 


Wise words. The output is as volatile as I have seen it. It's impossible to even guess what the charts will be showing in a week at the moment. 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
15 January 2017 17:40:01

Subtle differences and markedly different conditions can be garnered from looking at the 72-96-120 hour and to 144hrs. 


UKMO is less chilly with 1035 to 1030 mbs Europe UK West Central to NW and Mid N Europe High.  


Chilly or cold GFS 12z which has Europe seeing coldish days and frosty nights, with chance of very dry weather very high indeed and chilly cloudy days for the UK.


At 120-144 and greater divergence between the two, and it looks like NAVGEM is in between them both on it's 00z run.


The ECMWF 00z run looks similar to the UKMO with Stubborn hard to Mid Latitude High in W and Central to N Europe.


All three show North and NE Norwegian Sea and NW N Russia far NE Europe on the colder side, and next 3 days GFS keeps the East and SE Central Europe keep the cold Continental Polar Arctic Air getting some modification over West and NW UK as Low Pressure in Mid N Atlantic pushes to Southeast off Greenland  and by Friday to Sunday in part tracks NE to SW Norwegian Sea from South and SE Iceland after passing off S and SE Greenland on the ECMWF NAVGEM and UKMO, the GFS splits it and shows the same pattern but keeps the cut off Low and push that across us from Mid SE of N Atlantic that would be bring rain by late Sunday into Monday as the air is not cold enough for snow unless cold air under the West NW Europe High together with Cold SE winds embeds cold air ahead of it on approach😁. Smile.


Will the cold airmass over Mediterranean stay away from NW EUROPE - the GFS brings the cold dry frosty nights and cold days back in by Midweek and have Cut off Low aim to affect UK by next weekend or the Monday to Tuesday following it...


Chance of freezing fog also quite a possibility ahem😀.


It could get colder from Friday to Sunday, with a return midweek in third week of this month of mild SW flow and Mid N Atlantic to UK spells of wet and breezy SW and West flows. 


🌧🌤☁️🌫🌞🙂.


Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
Retron
15 January 2017 17:57:30
The mildest set of GEFS ensembles for some time... the warmup, however, has been put back a day to the 25th.

http://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?x=306&y=141&run=12&ville=Londres&runpara=0&type=3&ext=1 

In the semi-reliable time though it's a little below average.


Leysdown, north Kent
tallyho_83
15 January 2017 18:17:39

Hello - where did this low pressure come from?



Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


tallyho_83
15 January 2017 18:20:55


 


Very different to previous runs, my guess and it is a guess, the LP will be gone on the 18z and be missing from the ECM


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Yes - also the low pressure is over the south and the south should be drier and colder not milder and wetter as next Sunda.Monday is forecasted on models.


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


The Beast from the East
15 January 2017 18:27:51

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2017011512/ECH1-120.GIF?15-0


ECM so far. Similar to UKMO


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
15 January 2017 18:38:20

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2017011512/ECH1-168.GIF?15-0


high sinking. Consistent from ECM


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Chiltern Blizzard
15 January 2017 18:42:38
ECM at t+168 looks on the verge of bringing in some very mild SWelies....

On another note, tomorrow has the -5c 850hpa off Kent coast.... a week back GFS had it on the German-Polish border whilst the ECM had if off Cornwall... so in the end, distance wise both were nearly as wrong as each other.
Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
doctormog
15 January 2017 18:45:22

Looks like low pressure moving in during FI on the ECM 12z, I guess at least it will,provide some actual weather! Quite a bit different to the previous run by day 8 and also generally different to the GFS from early on. No wonder the professionals have had highlighted the uncertainty at quite an early timescale.



http://meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2017011512/ECH1-192.GIF?15-0 


The Beast from the East
15 January 2017 18:47:47

looks like its going to be a long wait for the next cold spell if it comes at all, perhaps we will need the strat warming to help us but the clock is ticking on deep cold.


If ECM verifies we will be looking at mid Feb before anything is possible and getting too late by then


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Chiltern Blizzard
15 January 2017 18:49:25
Poor as the ECM is if you're after wintry weather, the lack of a strong jet over th Atlantic and a warm North America, means that even if t+192 did verify, the weather's doesn't seem stuck in a rut, as evidenced by the wild swings in model output the past few days.... there's no reason to suspect that if it does turn mild in 7-10 days that underlying conditions are conducive to it remaining like that for a few weeks thereafter.... I'd continue to expect the model output to vary significantly until a defined set up is shown.
Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
doctormog
15 January 2017 18:51:04
By day 9 pressure is about 20 millibars lower across the U.K. than on the previous run! Whatever the pattern is that is developing it won't be clear from tonight's op runs, that's for sure.
David M Porter
15 January 2017 18:54:03

Poor as the ECM is if you're after wintry weather, the lack of a strong jet over th Atlantic and a warm North America, means that even if t+192 did verify, the weather's doesn't seem stuck in a rut, as evidenced by the wild swings in model output the past few days.... there's no reason to suspect that if it does turn mild in 7-10 days that underlying conditions are conducive to it remaining like that for a few weeks thereafter.... I'd continue to expect the model output to vary significantly until a defined set up is shown.

Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 


When the weather turned zonal and in some places stormy during the week leading up to Christmas, a few people here assumed that pattern would continue well into January. In the end, it only lasted about a week.


So far this season, any unsettled spells seem to have been relatively brief affairs, and until there is cross-model agreement on one particular set-up developing within the semi-reliable timeframe, we can't be sure what we are going to have later on in January let alone how long any particular type of weather may last for.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Hippydave
15 January 2017 18:54:30

I assume the difference between ECM an GFS at 144 is how they handle the jet strength and positioning?


At 120 they're near enough identical.


At 144 they diverge with GFS tracking the jet south so we don't end up with a big slug o' HP to our South, whereas ECM (I think judging by how it evolves anyway) pushes the jet North, the HP joins up and the jet happily carries on chugging away to our North thereafter.


Be interesting to see which one has modelled that best over the next day or so (assuming both of them don't change their minds by then).


Edit: More amplification by ECM at T216 I see, possible NW'ly setting in after. Bit different again, kind of highlights the uncertainty at the mo.


 


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
moomin75
15 January 2017 19:00:01
Could you get much more of a long fetch south westerly than this???? Blasting right through to Western Siberia.

http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1921.gif 
Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
doctormog
15 January 2017 19:05:39

Could you get much more of a long fetch south westerly than this???? Blasting right through to Western Siberia.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 

">http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1921.gif


It looks positively bitter in Siberia on that chart 


As for here the trend seems to be towards a more mobile outlook but with details very uncertain beyond about Day 5 or 6.


Gandalf The White
15 January 2017 19:08:58


looks like its going to be a long wait for the next cold spell if it comes at all, perhaps we will need the strat warming to help us but the clock is ticking on deep cold.


If ECM verifies we will be looking at mid Feb before anything is possible and getting too late by then


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Sorry Beast, that's ridiculous. The consensus view is that the pattern a week from now is still very much up in the air. For you to write off the next four weeks is just guesswork.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


moomin75
15 January 2017 19:12:02


 


Sorry Beast, that's ridiculous. The consensus view is that the patt


ern a week from now is still very much up in the air. For you to write off the next four weeks is just guesswork.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

Educated guesswork based on years of experience of the desperate winters we endure in this country.


Constantly getting at people who don't tow the party line is a bit sad. Beast was just saying what a lot of people think. Time is fast running out this WINTER because come February most sane people are looking towards spring.


I daresay we will have a cold spell again before March but it's hard to see where a proper wintry spell is coming from this winter.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL

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