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Rob K
16 April 2020 14:00:15




Some journalists don't seem to report on what someone actually says/means any more, they write the story and then find someone to support it, even if it means completey misquoting out of context (I have known them to report a weather forecaster as saying x would happen when he actually made it quite clear (or thought he did) that x would not happen)


Originally Posted by: Essan 


Yes, that's the way it works, the editor will say "Go and find somebody who is saying X" and the poor journo has to go and do that even if it means totally misrepresenting what they actually said.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
llamedos
16 April 2020 14:05:29




But are they actually issuing statements?  What is more likely is that journalists are just working "down the line" until they find someone less experienced at dealing with them who, on being asked "is it possible that we could do x" inadvertently admits that it "is possible ..." - next minute headline annouces that minister says we will do x.

Some journalists don't seem to report on what someone actually says/means any more, they write the story and then find someone to support it, even if it means completey misquoting out of context (I have known them to report a weather forecaster as saying x would happen when he actually made it quite clear (or thought he did) that x would not happen)


Originally Posted by: Essan 

Not wrong Andy. 


Most journalists are parasitical, a problem we won't be able to eradicate even if we're able to put a brake on this other unwelcome growth.


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Heavy Weather 2013
16 April 2020 14:06:01




But are they actually issuing statements?  What is more likely is that journalists are just working "down the line" until they find someone less experienced at dealing with them who, on being asked "is it possible that we could do x" inadvertently admits that it "is possible ..." - next minute headline annouces that minister says we will do x.

Some journalists don't seem to report on what someone actually says/means any more, they write the story and then find someone to support it, even if it means completey misquoting out of context (I have known them to report a weather forecaster as saying x would happen when he actually made it quite clear (or thought he did) that x would not happen)


Originally Posted by: Essan 


Makes sense. I guess the minister is saying ‘We will look to


open schools if we can in May or June’


Paper: Minister says looking at opening schools on May


Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
fairweather
16 April 2020 14:07:18

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the large reduction in any public toilets including those that are in businesses. I wonder how those with bladder problems cope.

Originally Posted by: westv 


I did mention this early on in the lockdown wrt the effect it was having on the homeless, toilet and washing facilities.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
fairweather
16 April 2020 14:12:39


 


Statistically there doesn't seem to be much evidence that under 40's are anymore at risk that the 20 -30 age bracket. Many more of the 30 - 40 group will live in their own homes. Seems a sensible idea to me to allow the under 40's back first.


Originally Posted by: Northern Sky 


When the time is ready I would let back all of the non vulnerable as originally defined. So over 70's and underlying conditions not. Otherwise I don't see how it can be managed. I would also put a massive emphasis on continuance of hand washing and social distancing and hopefully most people should realise that has to continue.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Gandalf The White
16 April 2020 14:13:54


 


I did mention this early on in the lockdown wrt the effect it was having on the homeless, toilet and washing facilities.


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


I understand but, bluntly, if the choice is between dirty and dead it's not a difficult one.  We need to sort out the homeless problem; ideally permanently but at least for the duration of this pandemic.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


fairweather
16 April 2020 14:15:47


 


Although out of all the sports it’s probably the easiest to maintain social distancing. 


Originally Posted by: John p 


It is for me. Especially after the tee I never go near anybody else till the next hole!


S.Essex, 42m ASL
westv
16 April 2020 14:16:06


 


I did mention this early on in the lockdown wrt the effect it was having on the homeless, toilet and washing facilities.


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


I also read today it's a big problem for delivery drivers too.


At least it will be mild!
John p
16 April 2020 14:16:19


 


I did mention this early on in the lockdown wrt the effect it was having on the homeless, toilet and washing facilities.


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


When this all started, I remember hearing quotes that they’d be getting them off the streets and in to accommodation. I guess that never happened?


Camberley, Surrey
Gandalf The White
16 April 2020 14:18:06


 


When the time is ready I would let back all of the non vulnerable as originally defined. So over 70's and underlying conditions not. Otherwise I don't see how it can be managed. I would also put a massive emphasis on continuance of hand washing and social distancing and hopefully most people should realise that has to continue.


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


I had this debate with someone on Twitter a couple of weeks ago:  those under 40 or even 50 are at much lower risk but they will carry the virus to others - and even the under-50s are still at some risk of severe episode and death.


I think the next phase has to involve face masks when in public, hand sanitiser gel at the entrance to every shop and workplace, temperature checking (not foolproof but it helps) and then lots of testing and tracing.  Yes, that comes at a price but the price will be less than the on-gong damage to the economy and cheaper than dealing with people in an ICU bed.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


westv
16 April 2020 14:19:51


 


I think the next phase has to involve face masks when in public,


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Where would these masks come from and how often would people need to change them?


At least it will be mild!
fairweather
16 April 2020 14:22:00


 


I understand but, bluntly, if the choice is between dirty and dead it's not a difficult one.  We need to sort out the homeless problem; ideally permanently but at least for the duration of this pandemic.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Funnily enough, there is an in between. The homeless need to wash their hands but they did also get drinking water there as well. Our local Council did well in managing to house most of them. Of course it begs the question how they couldn't manage it during the cold winter months!


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Saint Snow
16 April 2020 14:25:50


I still think Keir Starmer was wrong.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


 


I'm expecting to read this a lot more from you over the coming months/years.


 




Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Saint Snow
16 April 2020 14:30:37


 


Yes, that's the way it works, the editor will say "Go and find somebody who is saying X" and the poor journo has to go and do that even if it means totally misrepresenting what they actually said.


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


 


Although, most prominent politicians will have friendly journalists who they can use to float ideas/policies.


Both politicians and journalists use each other when it suits.



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Saint Snow
16 April 2020 14:33:58


 


When this all started, I remember hearing quotes that they’d be getting them off the streets and in to accommodation. I guess that never happened?


Originally Posted by: John p 


 


Many/most don't want to, because accommodation means having to follow some rules.


The majority of homeless people suffer from mental problems, which are exacerbated by their 'self-medicating' with drugs and/or alcohol.


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
speckledjim
16 April 2020 14:39:07
I heard earlier (think it was sky news) that 91% of those that died in England & Wales had underlying conditions. Do we have any data on the other 9%? I have my own thoughts and think a significant proportion will be smokers, heavy drinkers and the overweight.
Thorner, West Yorkshire


Journalism is organised gossip
westv
16 April 2020 14:47:59

I heard earlier (think it was sky news) that 91% of those that died in England & Wales had underlying conditions. Do we have any data on the other 9%? I have my own thoughts and think a significant proportion will be smokers, heavy drinkers and the overweight.

Originally Posted by: speckledjim 


I think I saw this mentioned on the BBC site too. Not sure how this news is any different to the previous info that the vast majority of deaths have underlying issues.


At least it will be mild!
Brian Gaze
16 April 2020 14:58:51

I heard earlier (think it was sky news) that 91% of those that died in England & Wales had underlying conditions. Do we have any data on the other 9%? I have my own thoughts and think a significant proportion will be smokers, heavy drinkers and the overweight.

Originally Posted by: speckledjim 



Does smoking PROTECT against coronavirus? That was the amazing claim from David Hockney but multiple scientific studies now suggest he might be on to something


A leading infectious disease expert at University College London, Professor Francois Balloux, said there is 'bizarrely strong' evidence it could be true.


And data from multiple Chinese studies shows that COVID-19 hospital patients contained a smaller proportion of smokers than the general population (6.5 per cent compared to 26.6 per cent), suggesting they were less likely to end up in hospital. 


Another study, by America's Centers for Disease Control of over 7,000 people who tested positive for coronavirus, found that just 1.3 per cent of them were smokers - against the 14 per cent of all Americans that the CDC says smoke.


The study also found that the smokers stood no greater chance of ending up in hospital or an ICU. 


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8214749/David-Hockney-claims-smoking-cigarettes-PROTECT-against-coronavirus.html


 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
16 April 2020 15:05:18

I heard earlier (think it was sky news) that 91% of those that died in England & Wales had underlying conditions. Do we have any data on the other 9%? I have my own thoughts and think a significant proportion will be smokers, heavy drinkers and the overweight.

Originally Posted by: speckledjim 

Or, they had unknown underlying conditions.  And that is the big unknown that we should all consider!


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.
pfw
  • pfw
  • Advanced Member
16 April 2020 15:10:42


Or, they had unknown underlying conditions.  And that is the big unknown that we should all consider!


Originally Posted by: Caz 


Exactly! To be honest if you get to your 70s or 80s without any underlying conditions you are doing pretty well.


Also I note that the Fail is presenting these figures as


and 10% of victims have NO underlying conditions


<sigh>


 


--
Paul.
speckledjim
16 April 2020 15:16:13


Or, they had unknown underlying conditions.  And that is the big unknown that we should all consider!


Originally Posted by: Caz 


👍👍


Thorner, West Yorkshire


Journalism is organised gossip
pfw
  • pfw
  • Advanced Member
16 April 2020 15:21:06

Moving 7 day average


https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN+DNK+ITA+KOR+ESP+SWE+GBR+USA


 UK broadly in line with what I expected around this time this week, and still tracking Italy. Sweden looks to be losing its status as the non-lockdown poster child but we will see.


Canada is still low but rising - I think I would have expected lock down to start affecting things by now. However https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-canada-surge-hospitals-icus-deaths-1.5533391 includes a report suggesting that it will be next week before things start going down. At the moment hospitals are coping although the care home situation has some grim cases.


There was also a worrying report yesterday (which I now can't find...) about a shortage of key workers possibly leading to food supply and power issues here. Still, you've got to laugh..


--
Paul.
Phil G
16 April 2020 15:26:27

After debate's about clarity for this, I still can't believe this does not feel right.
From the BBC ticker:
"Exercise guidelines
On exercise, the guidance lists driving to the countryside for a walk as "reasonable" if "far more time" is spent walking than driving.
But it adds that driving for a "prolonged period with only brief exercise" is not reasonable.
That would appear to indicate that someone who drove for an hour to a beauty spot for a two-hour walk would not be contravening the rules".

That last paragraph, I cannot believe it. What's all this stay at home etc. Just means more out on the road, going into filling stations where there are others, beggars belief.

Ulric
16 April 2020 15:26:54

This makes me very uncomfortable.
https://goodlawproject.org/covid-19-deaths/




‘Doctors are asked to use the standard MCCD (Medical Certificate of Cause of Death) form to certify death. ‘Pneumonia ‘or ‘community acquired pneumonia’ are acceptable at 1(a) on the MCCD. There is no requirement to write COVID 19 as part of the MCCD. It may be mentioned at 1(b) on the form, should the doctor wish.’


To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
16 April 2020 15:30:46


Exactly! To be honest if you get to your 70s or 80s without any underlying conditions you are doing pretty well.


Also I note that the Fail is presenting these figures as


and 10% of victims have NO underlying conditions


<sigh>


Originally Posted by: pfw 

It isn’t just the older generation either.  I lost a son and a brother, both suddenly, both in their forties and neither know they had the conditions they died from.  They only showed through autopsy. 


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.

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