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Roger Parsons
26 April 2020 14:49:45


 


My point is that they are a government agency, not a separate entity. If they are doing badly, it is the government's fault.


As for Cummings, I didn't say he influences SAGE, I said he is a very powerful adviser. I am not every saying his presence there is necessary malevolent, it's possible he was genuinely curious and interested. It would still be wrong though. 


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


The fundamental issue is the lack of transparency. If it is felt he needs to be briefed, and that is the government's choice and not his, then all they have to do is to say he is there to be informed and ensure follow-up, and not determine policy.


The fact that nothing was said makes even Conservatives nervous. He has always been something of an éminence grise.


Roger


RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
Gavin D
26 April 2020 14:53:07
Birmingham NHS Nightingale has not received any patients having opened 10 days ago.
westv
26 April 2020 14:54:44

Birmingham NHS Nightingale has not received any patients having opened 10 days ago.

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


Which is a good thing.


At least it will be mild!
Gooner
26 April 2020 14:59:13

Birmingham NHS Nightingale has not received any patients having opened 10 days ago.

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


I think they were built for the lessening of restrictions 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Roger Parsons
26 April 2020 15:02:31


How to you practically test 65 million in a reasonable time frame,at the current rate of testing it will take 10 years or more


Originally Posted by: springsunshine 


I don't want to sound grumpy, but everyone on this forum has some understanding of statistics and is familiar with the concept of extrapolating from an appropriate sample. The only question is what size sample do we need to make a reasonable estimate of the extent and characteristics of the CO-19 infection? To be sure we can keep assimilating new data as it comes in and at the end of it all we may have a substantial body of information, but it can be gathered in stages. I will let posters suggest their take on an appropriate sample size for a population of 65 million.


[It is for this reason I expressed my regret that we had not started the process of sampling by including all care homes in the UK to get a geographical sample across the country of the vulnerable and their carers to add to the NHS data.]


Roger


RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
pfw
  • pfw
  • Advanced Member
26 April 2020 15:04:31


 


i live a 5 minute drive to the beach.  Since major surgery on my leg last year, I can no longer walk to the beach. There is nothing I would like more than a walk on said beach, but too worried about pic of car being posted on local page with loads of derogatory comments. 


Originally Posted by: chelseagirl 


IANAL - but I do not believe you would be committing an offence doing this in England. There is lots of legal discussion on this online but AIUI you can leave home for a non-exhaustive list of "reasonable" reasons:


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/regulation/6/made


It's rather confusing as the legislation has recently been amended:


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/447/regulation/2/made


But there is nothing about one hour max exercise, once per day, not driving to exercise etc. That was all in "guidance" which is not legally binding.


Personally I don't see anything wrong with driving a short distance to a quiet spot, going for a walk, then driving home. In some cases this might be less risky than a walk in a more crowded area just outside your house. Others might disagree and I accept you could get problems if hordes start descending on beauty spots.


I am definitely not a fan of public naming and shaming of people or self-appointed "locals" deciding which "outsiders" should be told to go home.


 


--
Paul.
xioni2
26 April 2020 15:18:53

One attendee of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) said they felt Cummings’ interventions had sometimes inappropriately influenced what is supposed to be an impartial scientific process.


A second Sage attendee said they were shocked when Cummings first began participating in Sage discussions, in February, because they believed the group should be providing “unadulterated scientific data” without any political input.

xioni2
26 April 2020 15:24:27


 


 The only question is what size sample do we need to make a reasonable estimate of the extent and characteristics of the CO-19 infection? To be sure we can keep assimilating new data as it comes in and at the end of it all we may have a substantial body of information, but it can be gathered in stages. I will let posters suggest their take on an appropriate sample size for a population of 65 million.


Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons 



  • Flusurvey tested 1,000 people in the UK and found 2% infected

  • Iceland had tested 12% of its population and found 0.3%

  • Austria found a similar percentage in early April using a randomised sample


 

westv
26 April 2020 15:27:51


 


I am definitely not a fan of public naming and shaming of people or self-appointed "locals" deciding which "outsiders" should be told to go home.


 


Originally Posted by: pfw 


It's an unfortunate side of the crisis that some people have too much time on their hands and can only seem to fill it my finding fault in others.


At least it will be mild!
Gavin D
26 April 2020 15:39:10

Daily slides


Transport shows a slight rise again on motor vehicle usage maybe due to more essential firms reopening like B&Q



People in Hospital continues to fall bar Scotland where we have a slight increase



ICU admissions in England, Wales and Northern Ireland have increased slightly whilst Scotland remains steady



New cases. Pillar one continues to fall whilst pillar 2 looks like it may be a daily record


Roger Parsons
26 April 2020 15:44:22


 



  • Flusurvey tested 1,000 people in the UK and found 2% infected

  • Iceland had tested 12% of its population and found 0.3%

  • Austria found a similar percentage in early April using a randomised sample


 


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


Thanks xioni.



The critical thing is a representative sample - and we have already seen how difficult it can be to compare countries - even regions. I am still fishing for someone to come out with what they would regard as a sufficient sample size for reasonable confidence we had captured whet we need to know at this stage. The flusurvey sample is a % of their small survey "population" - which I would expect to have been stratified to reflect the total UK population, so it is very interesting but has its weaknesses. Are they planning a repeat?


[I'm still doing it BTW]


R


RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
26 April 2020 15:44:28


One attendee of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) said they felt Cummings’ interventions had sometimes inappropriately influenced what is supposed to be an impartial scientific process.


A second Sage attendee said they were shocked when Cummings first began participating in Sage discussions, in February, because they believed the group should be providing “unadulterated scientific data” without any political input.


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


The minutes of some other (but certainly not all) govt advisory committees are available online.


In view of the national importance of Sage and the need for transparency in gaining public confidence, it would seem essential that the minutes of this are public.


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
chelseagirl
26 April 2020 15:45:48


 


IANAL - but I do not believe you would be committing an offence doing this in England. There is lots of legal discussion on this online but AIUI you can leave home for a non-exhaustive list of "reasonable" reasons:


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/regulation/6/made


It's rather confusing as the legislation has recently been amended:


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/447/regulation/2/made


But there is nothing about one hour max exercise, once per day, not driving to exercise etc. That was all in "guidance" which is not legally binding.


Personally I don't see anything wrong with driving a short distance to a quiet spot, going for a walk, then driving home. In some cases this might be less risky than a walk in a more crowded area just outside your house. Others might disagree and I accept you could get problems if hordes start descending on beauty spots.


I am definitely not a fan of public naming and shaming of people or self-appointed "locals" deciding which "outsiders" should be told to go home.


 


Originally Posted by: pfw 


I know that! It’s the amount of grey haired keyboard warrior net curtain twitching people we have up here. Thinking it’s just not worth the aggro and wait til winter when the beach is virtually empty anyway. 


The Fenlands of Cambridgeshire
Roger Parsons
26 April 2020 15:48:06


 


Come on Nick. You in particular called me thick etc. I am waiting for your stats.


As Delia the Norwich owner said, WHERE ARE YOU?


 


Originally Posted by: Phil G 



RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
Gavin D
26 April 2020 15:52:52
15,953 in hospital with Covid-19 down from 16,411 yesterday
xioni2
26 April 2020 15:57:34


Thanks xioni.


The flusurvey sample is a % of their small survey "population" - which I would expect to have been stratified to reflect the total UK population, so it is very interesting but has its weaknesses. Are they planning a repeat?


[I'm still doing it BTW]


R


Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons 


Yes  flusyrvey are planning a repeat. The govt is also planning a much bigger survey


https://oxfordbrc.nihr.ac.uk/large-scale-covid-19-infection-and-antibody-test-study-launched/

Gavin D
26 April 2020 16:05:33

UK data



  • 25,577 tests - New daily record

  • 4,463 positive

  • 413 deaths


 
Gavin D
26 April 2020 16:06:52


UK data



  • 25,577 tests - New daily record

  • 4,463 positive

  • 413 deaths 


Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


 


Confirmed rate for positive tests has fallen to 17.45%

chelseagirl
26 April 2020 16:15:43


 


IANAL - but I do not believe you would be committing an offence doing this in England. There is lots of legal discussion on this online but AIUI you can leave home for a non-exhaustive list of "reasonable" reasons:


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/regulation/6/made


It's rather confusing as the legislation has recently been amended:


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/447/regulation/2/made


But there is nothing about one hour max exercise, once per day, not driving to exercise etc. That was all in "guidance" which is not legally binding.


Personally I don't see anything wrong with driving a short distance to a quiet spot, going for a walk, then driving home. In some cases this might be less risky than a walk in a more crowded area just outside your house. Others might disagree and I accept you could get problems if hordes start descending on beauty spots.


I am definitely not a fan of public naming and shaming of people or self-appointed "locals" deciding which "outsiders" should be told to go home.


 


Originally Posted by: pfw 


I know this is the case.Its the grey haired keyboard warrior net curtain twitchers that apparently didn’t know!


Ive got to the stage where I can’t be bothered and will wait until the winter when the beaches are empty again! 


The Fenlands of Cambridgeshire
NickR
26 April 2020 16:18:18


 



Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons 



Nick
Durham
[email protected]
Saint Snow
26 April 2020 16:19:53


 


The vitriol on local FB pages against second home owners and holidaymakers up here, while being understandable, has been very harsh in some cases. As a lot of these “outsiders” are a member of these sites, there has been comment made that “it’s not the friendly place we thought it was”, and there will be some backfiring. There have been many posts from the local “second home/caravan police” also. We moved here a couple of years ago, and I am certainly seeing a side of people that I didn’t think possible. 


Originally Posted by: chelseagirl 


 


But when everyone is ordered not to travel to these places and stay at their main residences, and therefore making self-sacrifices, having over-entitled, arrogant tossers thinking it doesn't apply to them and leaving their city homes to have a prolonged jolly by the sea/in the countryside is a red rag to a bull.


Either the restrictions apply to everyone, or they can screw it. Allowing already privileged people to flout restrictions and be even more privileged will provoke anger in any normal-thinking person.



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Gavin D
26 April 2020 16:24:04

Italy



  • 2,324 new cases

  • 260 new deaths - Lowest daily rise since March 14th


PM Conte will be speaking to the nation tonight

Saint Snow
26 April 2020 16:30:48


 


Some friends who live in Cumbria (he's actually a local GP there) drove a couple of miles up the road in order to vary their daily walk. When they got back to their car there was a "GO HOME" notice plastered on it. Needless to say, they found this quite upsetting.


Originally Posted by: RobN 


 


I'd only be 'upset' if I couldn't just lift the notice off, screw it up, and throw it away.


Locals in these areas understandably don't want urbanites potentially bringing infection to remote villages. Such a universal approach is going to ensnare innocent people like your friend, but in his position (a local from a neighbouring village) I'd be happy that people care so much to want to dissuade outsiders. 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Gavin D
26 April 2020 16:37:41

Pillar 1 2,685


Pillar 2 1,778


Total 4,463

Gavin D
26 April 2020 16:48:59

This week in England



  • 19,574 new cases

  • 4,019 deaths 


Last week in England



  • 24,299 new cases

  • 4,806 deaths 

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