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moomin75
04 August 2020 04:33:41

I think we can start thinking about throwing in the towel on any heatwave. GFS is really quite cool now and brings a one day wonder. UKMO is backing away towards GFS and GEM looks to be doing likewise before picking up another hot signal later.
Whatever anyone says about GFS, if it is the first model to pick up on something cruddy, and resolutely sticks to its guns, the rest will almost always follow.
I fully expect ECM will start backing down today as well.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Ally Pally Snowman
04 August 2020 04:55:23


I think we can start thinking about throwing in the towel on any heatwave. GFS is really quite cool now and brings a one day wonder. UKMO is backing away towards GFS and GEM looks to be doing likewise before picking up another hot signal later.
Whatever anyone says about GFS, if it is the first model to pick up on something cruddy, and resolutely sticks to its guns, the rest will almost always follow.
I fully expect ECM will start backing down today as well.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


 


I disagree UKMO is still extremely hot to the end of its run. It's the GFS that has moved towards the ECM this morning.


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Heavy Weather 2013
04 August 2020 05:01:01


I think we can start thinking about throwing in the towel on any heatwave. GFS is really quite cool now and brings a one day wonder. UKMO is backing away towards GFS and GEM looks to be doing likewise before picking up another hot signal later.
Whatever anyone says about GFS, if it is the first model to pick up on something cruddy, and resolutely sticks to its guns, the rest will almost always follow.
I fully expect ECM will start backing down today as well.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


I read this. Not sure what charts you’ve been looking at this morning. We’re you still asleep and imagined it?


Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
moomin75
04 August 2020 05:07:03


 


I read this. Not sure what charts you’ve been looking at this morning. We’re you still asleep and imagined it?


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 

Uurgh. For some reason I was looking at a cached UKMO from last week. In my defence I was on my iPad not my phone which I usually use. I step back from the above....UKMO is indeed still very warm.


 


GFS wasn't a cached version though and it looks really rather cool and increasingly unsettled after Saturday.


I wonder if GFS will be on the money as it has resolutely stuck to its guns and is getting cooler with each passing run.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
AOrnstin
04 August 2020 05:43:23
GFS 0Z showing heat lasting longer now but its more or less swept away by Thursday 13th. Thundery-looking low develops over South early next week.

BTW from memory I think back in the 1980s low 80s maxima were regarded as pretty noteworthy.
Rob K
04 August 2020 06:32:19


I think we can start thinking about throwing in the towel on any heatwave. GFS is really quite cool now and brings a one day wonder. UKMO is backing away towards GFS and GEM looks to be doing likewise before picking up another hot signal later.
Whatever anyone says about GFS, if it is the first model to pick up on something cruddy, and resolutely sticks to its guns, the rest will almost always follow.
I fully expect ECM will start backing down today as well.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Yes as expected the 00Z ECM is much cooler. Although having said that the GEFS do look to be extending the warmth a bit compared to yesterday, but nothing very extreme. 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
moomin75
04 August 2020 06:39:56


 


Yes as expected the 00Z ECM is much cooler. Although having said that the GEFS do look to be extending the warmth a bit compared to yesterday, but nothing very extreme. 


Originally Posted by: Rob K 

As sure as night follows day, the ECM was bound to be the one that backtracked the most.


It had to really following yesterday's completely implausible 12z. As I said, I am and remain 100% certain that would never verify. 


A quick two day hot spell for the southeast followed by a return to cooler (though still pleasant) and changeable pattern to see us through the last month of summer 2020 is my call.


That said, I think overall, August is shaping up to be the best month of an otherwise nondescript summer.


 


EDIT. That  ECM from last night is but a distant memory, a figment of all our imagination. I knew it was a completely ridiculous implausible outlier, but the 0z appears much more sensible and stable, prolonging the pleasant pattern but without the frankly ridiculous uppers. In fact its done a complete vaulte face and gone from a scorching southeasterly to a cooling northwesterly at 192-216. The complete opposite. Shows clearly that the ECM and its supposed good verification isn't all its cracked up to be.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
04 August 2020 06:56:55

10-day summary continues to show NW/SE quite steep gradient in temp; rain in the NW in week 1 but along the S coast in week 2.


GFS this morning shows W-lies turning SW-ly with HP ridge Azores - Norway established by Sat 8th weakening (very warm except N Sea coast may be cooler with light NE-ly; Faversham temps on MetO go down with a bump on Sunday) LP working up from the S Wed 12th and wallowing around, a little cooler, until Mon 10th when the ridge re-establishes from the SW. 


GEFS very warm in S (5-7C above norm) until Thu 13th then dropping sharply to norm (and control run well below) out to THu 20th. Many more rainfall spikes than yesterday spread across different runs from Wed 12th but no consistent agreement. Scotland and N England see less of the heat with temps somewhat above norm around  Fri 7th and Wed 12th but otherwise flatlining around the norm; early rain spike tomorrow 95th) for lowland Scotland otherwise on the dry side for Scotland but quite a lot of rain on and off for N England from Tue 11th onwards


ECM similar trends to GFS but keeps pressure higher Sat 8th and LP from the S on Wed 13th much less well developed as a definite feature.


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
superteacher
04 August 2020 06:56:56


As sure as night follows day, the ECM was bound to be the one that backtracked the most.


It had to really following yesterday's completely implausible 12z. As I said, I am and remain 100% certain that would never verify. 


A quick two day hot spell for the southeast followed by a return to cooler (though still pleasant) and changeable pattern to see us through the last month of summer 2020 is my call.


That said, I think overall, August is shaping up to be the best month of an otherwise nondescript summer.


 


EDIT. That  ECM from last night is but a distant memory, a figment of all our imagination. I knew it was a completely ridiculous implausible outlier, but the 0z appears much more sensible and stable, prolonging the pleasant pattern but without the frankly ridiculous uppers.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


i think we all knew that. But it was a plausible, if very unlikely.


GFS has moved to a less progressive solution in the medium term (the weekend) is . Not bothered what it does from 144 as we need to get that low modelled correctly first. And I still think that none of models have got a handle on it yet.

xioni2
04 August 2020 07:06:17


As sure as night follows day, the ECM was bound to be the one that backtracked the most.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


This EC run would still have 30s in the south for 6 days in a row (Fri-Wed). Still a lot of uncertainty though (in both directions).

superteacher
04 August 2020 07:08:56
Moomin, it’s well known that the ECM regularly verifies better than the GFS. However, all models verify poorly beyond 144. That’s not to say that ECM always gets it right. But as it hasn’t happened yet, it’s a bit premature to say that any model has got next week wrong yet.
It’s not like you don’t know any of this though.
Retron
04 August 2020 07:11:59


 


This EC run would still have 30s in the south for 6 days in a row (Fri-Wed). Still a lot of uncertainty though (in both directions).


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


Yup - I got my hopes up when I saw people talking of downgrades (as that means upgrades for me!), but nope... still very warm, if not hot (5 days in a row of >16C 850s down here, for example).


GEFS has had a big downgrade (for me) since yesterday too, with the mean 850s rising from 10C on the 9th/10th to 15C on this morning's output. The surface temperatures haven't risen anywhere near as much, but it's a risky game as it's entirely dependent on wind direction... it has to be just right to ensure cooler conditions with such high 850s and the law of sod dictates that it will change between now and then!


Either way, I'm expecting today to be the "coolest" day for some time - and that's saying something, as it's still going to be at or above average!


Leysdown, north Kent
Heavy Weather 2013
04 August 2020 07:15:39
Lots of options on GFS ensembles. The range in temps on the 850s from 5C to 18C suggest this is settled by along way just yet.
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Brian Gaze
04 August 2020 07:49:37


Either way, I'm expecting today to be the "coolest" day for some time - and that's saying something, as it's still going to be at or above average!


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Probably the most sensible and accurate comment in here today.  Exact details of the evolution this weekend onwards UK wide are pretty uncertain IMO.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Bertwhistle
04 August 2020 08:03:11


Uurgh. For some reason I was looking at a cached UKMO from last week. In my defence I was on my iPad not my phone which I usually use. I step back from the above....UKMO is indeed still very warm.


 


GFS wasn't a cached version though and it looks really rather cool and increasingly unsettled after Saturday.


I wonder if GFS will be on the money as it has resolutely stuck to its guns and is getting cooler with each passing run.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Don't look at the GFS Op alone. If using GFS, consider the ensembles.


Tuesday next week- mean of all Ps in the South still 27°C and 850s above 10° for the whole of England, more like 13-16 for the southern half. Out of the 21 options, only 5 project a temp below 26 in the south with one more than that offering 30+.


So whilst at that range (T + 186) anything could happen, tbf I think it's folly to make such a firm call at this stage, especially when it's clearly not evidenced in the models.


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
Jason H
04 August 2020 08:08:22

The glorious summer in the extreme South continues. Warm today. Then warming/hotting up and remaining hot for the next week or so according to the latest runs. Not much rain about either. Fantastic stuff. Hopefully the more Northern reaches of the UK can tap into the heat.


I feel great! so maybe I might just
Search for a 9 to 5, if I strive
Then maybe I'll stay alive

Bexleyheath, Kent.
bledur
04 August 2020 08:27:24

Heat seems to be gone temporarily by Sunday with rain in the south monday , still pretty warm though


doctormog
04 August 2020 08:27:57
I see the GFS op run actually has the next 7.5 days’ temperature below average in some places (namely Wales, N England and S Scotland)

http://www.wxmaps.org/pix/temp4.png 
Ally Pally Snowman
04 August 2020 08:36:52

I'd say the ECM has gone 25% towards the GFS and the GFS has gone 75% towards the ECM if that makes sense.


Still this morning we have 5 or 6 30c days with a couple 35c days, very significant heatwave by UK standards.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
04 August 2020 10:04:30

Out come the 06zs, and it seems the compromise consensus is now upon us at least for the weekend. Secondary high moving across the North, heat hanging on for Saturday, Sunday fresher for most, but poised for what looks like a second warm up next week.




Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Rob K
04 August 2020 11:59:39


 


Don't look at the GFS Op alone. If using GFS, consider the ensembles.


Tuesday next week- mean of all Ps in the South still 27°C and 850s above 10° for the whole of England, more like 13-16 for the southern half. Out of the 21 options, only 5 project a temp below 26 in the south with one more than that offering 30+.


So whilst at that range (T + 186) anything could happen, tbf I think it's folly to make such a firm call at this stage, especially when it's clearly not evidenced in the models.


Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 


I find the Meteociel table view a very good way of getting to grips with the GEFS ensembles. For example here are the 850s for London:


https://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_table.php?ext=1&x=&lat=51.5085&lon=-0.12574&ville=Londres


Run 13 in particular keeps them at 16-18C for a full week.


Fairly unanimous on a cooldown for the end of the run (just when I am going on holiday of course)


But 2m temps still have plenty of reds implying low to mid 70s Fahrenheit which is pretty decent:


https://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_table.php?x=0&y=0&lat=51.5085&lon=-0.12574&run=6&ext=fr&mode=7&sort=0


 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
moomin75
04 August 2020 15:39:17
ICON first out of the blocks today shows a prolonging of the hot spell. Will others follow suit? We will know by 8pm.
Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
04 August 2020 16:12:26

ICON first out of the blocks today shows a prolonging of the hot spell. Will others follow suit? We will know by 8pm.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Too early to tell with GFS, but sod's law would involve GFS improving significantly while ECM goes cold and wet.


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
warrenb
04 August 2020 16:16:59
Just seen a video on Twitter with Meto going for Thursday to Sunday of 30,36,36,31 for London
Ally Pally Snowman
04 August 2020 16:19:42

UKMO pushes the heat east Saturday probably still 32c in SE. Friday looks very hot 100f possible. Sunday cooler for all mid 20s at a guess heat pushing back west Monday. 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.

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