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Ally Pally Snowman
12 June 2024 08:02:11

You will be wrong, but we won't get a 76 redux. That's my prediction, anyway!

I reckon you can add 5C to each of those temperatures you mention, and bear in mind 30C is almost certain to be reached - the last time it wasn't was 31 years ago! And as for 28 being the max (I wish), you'd have to go back 50 years - 1974 was the last time the max was a rounded 28C.

https://www.trevorharley.com/hottest-day-of-each-year-from-1875.html 

EDIT: And we already have a rounded 28 in the bag for this year, as the max so far is 27.5.

Originally Posted by: Retron 



I hope you are right. Hints of a warm up in the ensembles but remaining unsettled.  
 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Bertwhistle
12 June 2024 11:52:28

1991 - 2020 Warmest
2018    16.10
2017    16.00
2003    15.90
2005    15.80
2006    15.80

1991 - 2020 Coldest
1991    11.90
2012    13.50
2013    13.60
2011    13.70
1999    13.80

Just looking at the warmest and coldest June's of the last 33 years and you can see a cold June rarely leads to a good rest of Summer only 2013 has half decent in this list the rest being poor. But conversely warm June's often lead to good Summers. All decent on that list with 03, 06 and 18 being all time classics. Obviously last year proved good June's dont always lead to good Summers. But we will need something extraordinary for this summer to turn out good with June being so poor. 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



Similarly cold starts to June don't always mean a bad summer. 1989 and 1995 had dreadful starts to June, with the first third in 1989 averaging 10C+ (I realise 1989 is outside of your time window). 1990 had a poor June then July was good and August very good.
1999 had a very good July and a reasonable August. Scrolling forward, and 2022s super summer followed a pretty mediocre June. 

1995 is the one to focus on to be realistic about hopes for the summer. Had it not been for the heat of the last few days, it too would have been a sub 14. It ended just over. To the 16th the CET was just 12C (12.04°C) then there was a slight warming for about a week.
We know what happened in June and July- but that was exceptional, leading not just to a good summer, but one of the hottest in the series. 
Moral: don't count chickens etc etc
 
Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
Ally Pally Snowman
12 June 2024 13:54:47

Similarly cold starts to June don't always mean a bad summer. 1989 and 1995 had dreadful starts to June, with the first third in 1989 averaging 10C+ (I realise 1989 is outside of your time window). 1990 had a poor June then July was good and August very good.
1999 had a very good July and a reasonable August. Scrolling forward, and 2022s super summer followed a pretty mediocre June. 

1995 is the one to focus on to be realistic about hopes for the summer. Had it not been for the heat of the last few days, it too would have been a sub 14. It ended just over. To the 16th the CET was just 12C (12.04°C) then there was a slight warming for about a week.
We know what happened in June and July- but that was exceptional, leading not just to a good summer, but one of the hottest in the series. 
Moral: don't count chickens etc etc
 

Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 



Some hopeful stats there. 95 shows what's possible,  the ensembles are sniffing improvements but it's painfully slow atm.
 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Crepuscular Ray
22 June 2024 21:01:30
Poor so far here! 🥱
Jerry
Edinburgh, in the frost hollow below Blackford Hill
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
22 June 2024 21:52:25

Similarly cold starts to June don't always mean a bad summer. 
 

Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 


IIRC even the start of June 1976 was nothing special. We moved to Kent at Whitsun and the temp was quite ordinary when I had to resume teaching for the second half of term in Manchester leaving the family to settle in. It was maybe a fortnight later when they were running around in swimming costumes while Manchester had normal temps. It wasn't until the 23rd that date records started getting broken. 
https://www.torro.org.uk/extremes/date-records/max-temp 
War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Bertwhistle
23 June 2024 12:02:55

IIRC even the start of June 1976 was nothing special. We moved to Kent at Whitsun and the temp was quite ordinary when I had to resume teaching for the second half of term in Manchester leaving the family to settle in. It was maybe a fortnight later when they were running around in swimming costumes while Manchester had normal temps. It wasn't until the 23rd that date records started getting broken. 
https://www.torro.org.uk/extremes/date-records/max-temp 

Originally Posted by: DEW 



Remember it well Dew. Also remember 1975 when we had a grass frost on at least one June morning. Apparently there was snow in places in lowland England too. Although 75 isn't up with the top summers, it was good overall with Southampton reaching 30°C in all 3 months. 
It was listed in the top summers of the century in Ingrid Holford's book the Guinness Book of Weather facts and feats (along with 47, 33, 11, 76).
Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
Matty H
24 June 2024 18:26:20
The absolute shat-fest continues. The second cloudy day in a row. Meanwhile our local council are trolling people on Facebook having just put a post out warning people to stay out of the sun tomorrow and drinks lots of fluids, in temps of Furnace Creek-rivalling 25c. That’s if the sun eventually comes out. 
Saint Snow
25 June 2024 12:26:17
I wonder if this summer is going to be one of those where there's quite a few relatively brief (3-6 day) nice spells (that seem to spring out of nowhere), interspersed with equal-length spells of unsettled crap.

 

Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
fairweather
01 July 2024 20:57:16
Well, after a very wet cool Spring here (daily maxes) we are now into the first summer drought. Just 12mm in June and zero for two weeks now. The last two weeks of June have provided maxima of around 22c or above for the whole period and a high of 29C. Not always sunny though, even with those temperatures some days were cloudy
S.Essex, 42m ASL
fairweather
02 July 2024 11:06:49
Well that did the trick! Heavy drizzle/light rain this morning.
S.Essex, 42m ASL
Saint Snow
02 July 2024 14:33:51

Well that did the trick! Heavy drizzle/light rain this morning.

Originally Posted by: fairweather 



You related to Denis Howell?



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Stormchaser
03 July 2024 09:45:52
June was one of the most peculiar months of weather I can recall for the UK.

I can't recall one in May-July, when surface heating is at its peak, that has been so dry in the south despite not much in the way of high pressure to force stability.

My personal experience was mostly positive, despite the nagging chill to the wind for a time in the first half.

A cloudier method of producing cool temps is now in effect, before a break Thu, return Fri, then more of a break this weekend when we get a sunshine and showers regime. Signs of more wet weather next week, with temps increasing to perhaps a bit above average. Not great overall in my book, but could be worse.

Based on the typical cycle of the Madden-Julian Oscillation (MJO), we should see an opportunity for a more pronounced spell of settled, warm or hot weather approx. 3rd week July. The extended EC model has been hinting at that lately.

With quite a La Niña-like profile to the Atlantic-Europe sector, August is very much up in the air. If that state is uninterrupted, probably not a very inspiring month for the UK, especially in the north. Otherwise, scope for a notable drier, hotter interlude, as demonstrated when temporary more Niño-like states emerged in the Augusts of 2020 and 2022.
If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Stormchaser
03 July 2024 18:37:36

Spot on, I'd say. GFS had this area pegged at 13C for today, sticking with it right 'til the last minute - and so far it's hit 15.3. The old MetO automated was similarly poor, but at least the new model they're using is closer to reality - it seems to have bumped highs by around 2C compared to the old model. 13C, a good 5 or 6 below average, would have been noteworthy... even if the same in the other direction, 24 or 25, wouldn't have been.I can only agree that the record warm SSTs are throwing a spanner in the works. Kent is a peninsula, of course, so it's no surprise to see such errors here!https://climatereanalyzer.org/clim/sst_daily/ Last year saw record highs, of course, by a whopping margin... and we're as much above that again this year. It's utterly bonkers, but gets very little media attention - we just see people moaning on social media about how cold it is, how climate change is a myth, etc, etc.

Originally Posted by: Retron 



Rekindling this from way back in May to note that this low bias of GFS has continued through the cooler weather of early to mid-June plus early July so far. For today, as an example, it insisted on 17°C right through to today's 00z and the true maximum proved to be way up at 19.7°C.

Interestingly, for June as a whole it was on average 0.2°C too high for the overnight minimum temps, but a whopping 1.7°C too low for the daytime maximum temps.

Opening 3 days of July have been 1.6 and 1.9°C too low, respectively.

Overall, this means any forecasts using GFS as a basis are depicting an extremely cool run of weather, when in reality it's turning out to be only a little bit below the 1991-2020 average (-0.47°C anomaly for 1st-3rd).

Sadly, in my admittedly more limited experience with ECMWF, it's not a lot better. UKV is a marked improvement, though, albeit not without still being a bit on the cool side from time to time. Last week, several days peaked about 1°C above UKV's prediction.
It's fascinating that even in this day and age, we still can't nail 2 m temperature predictions at less than 24 hours lead time.
If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Stormchaser
06 July 2024 19:21:15
GFS has excelled itself for today here, predicting a high of 16°C which would be a whopping 5.6°C below the 1991-2020 average, only for the actual max to be a comparatively warm 19.2°C. Over 3°C above the forecast yet still over 2°C below average.
To be fair to GFS, even UKV, usually the best performer for my area, only had 17-18°C across the nearest two grid points.
If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Hungry Tiger
09 July 2024 18:24:05

GFS has excelled itself for today here, predicting a high of 16°C which would be a whopping 5.6°C below the 1991-2020 average, only for the actual max to be a comparatively warm 19.2°C. Over 3°C above the forecast yet still over 2°C below average.
To be fair to GFS, even UKV, usually the best performer for my area, only had 17-18°C across the nearest two grid points.

Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


Looking like the first sub 15C CET since 1988 with a possibility of sub 14C CET. That would be the first sub 14CET since 1922.  😮 
Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


lanky
13 July 2024 13:31:03
Who remembers when Kevin Bradshaw  (aka Mr Data) used to publish his Manchester Summer Index every week or so to measure how this summer was progressing compared to summers of bygone days.

He used an algorithm based on cumulative Sun Hours, Average Maximum Temperature and Cumulative rain days (>= 0.2 mm IIRC) for his local readings oin Manchester

With his permission I hijacked this a few years ago to do my own version for my area in SW London which generally came out significantly higher than his nearly every year due to lower rainfall and higher temperatures down here on average

As there are so many complaints about this year's summer I thought it might be worth having another go at it. This one shoes this years data by f=day number of the summer (1-92) starting at day 10 for the best and worst or=f recent summers 2012 and 2018 and the best and worst for the last 125 years (1954 and 1976) plus 2024 so far

This year is just about bang in the middle of these and way better than 2012 to which some comparisons hav ebeen made
The graph is below and right click + open in new tab to see it fuller sized

UserPostedImage

Martin
Richmond, Surrey
Crepuscular Ray
14 July 2024 06:42:06
Thanks Martin for that. So not too bad for SW London? Fairly average?
I'm sure NE England and SE Scotland would be towards the bottom of the pack 🙄
Jerry
Edinburgh, in the frost hollow below Blackford Hill
johncs2016
14 July 2024 07:06:30

Thanks Martin for that. So not too bad for SW London? Fairly average?
I'm sure NE England and SE Scotland would be towards the bottom of the pack 🙄

Originally Posted by: Crepuscular Ray 


NE England maybe but as for SE Scotland, I'm not so sure about that.

Here in Edinburgh at least, this has been a dry summer so far to such an extent that SEPA even have us at early warning status as regards to water scarcity.

To me, I would expect that to boost our index a bit for this summer even if those other factors for the temperature and sunshine totals aren't so good.

The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
14 July 2024 07:37:52
June 2024: Earth’s 13th-consecutive warmest month on record


https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2024/07/june-2024-earths-13th-consecutive-warmest-month-on-record/


Doesn't feel like it here! But the link has a comprehensive list of global temp records for June and for the rest of the year, 99% of them heat records. 


Greenland, which appears to be monopolising our weather supply at the moment, did have the coldest N Hemisphere temp value for June, -33.9C on the 2nd.

War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Hungry Tiger
17 July 2024 08:47:26

Who remembers when Kevin Bradshaw  (aka Mr Data) used to publish his Manchester Summer Index every week or so to measure how this summer was progressing compared to summers of bygone days.

He used an algorithm based on cumulative Sun Hours, Average Maximum Temperature and Cumulative rain days (>= 0.2 mm IIRC) for his local readings oin Manchester

With his permission I hijacked this a few years ago to do my own version for my area in SW London which generally came out significantly higher than his nearly every year due to lower rainfall and higher temperatures down here on average

As there are so many complaints about this year's summer I thought it might be worth having another go at it. This one shoes this years data by f=day number of the summer (1-92) starting at day 10 for the best and worst or=f recent summers 2012 and 2018 and the best and worst for the last 125 years (1954 and 1976) plus 2024 so far

This year is just about bang in the middle of these and way better than 2012 to which some comparisons hav ebeen made
The graph is below and right click + open in new tab to see it fuller sized

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: lanky 


I loved those. I wonder what happened to Kevin Bradshaw. He was good on here.  🙂 
Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Bertwhistle
22 July 2024 18:23:09

June 2024: Earth’s 13th-consecutive warmest month on record


https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2024/07/june-2024-earths-13th-consecutive-warmest-month-on-record/


Doesn't feel like it here! But the link has a comprehensive list of global temp records for June and for the rest of the year, 99% of them heat records. 


Greenland, which appears to be monopolising our weather supply at the moment, did have the coldest N Hemisphere temp value for June, -33.9C on the 2nd.

Originally Posted by: DEW 


Amazing, considering the sun didn't set!
Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
23 July 2024 21:53:11
Bits picked out of https://blog.metoffice.gov.uk/ dated 16th July

Early provisional Met Office statistics for 1 June to 15 July say the summer so far has actually been slightly drier than average. 113.8mm of rain has fallen across the UK, which is 45% of the long-term meteorological average for the whole of the season. At this point, you’d expect 49% of the total to have fallen. (though this has been backloaded with July wetter than June for most places.)

At the time of writing, the mean temperature in the UK [for June - mid-July] stands at 13.04°C, which is 1.55°C cooler than the long-term meteorological average for the summer season and the 17th coolest start to summer since 1960 ... the lowest mean temperature recorded in the UK [from 1960 onwards] was 11.22°C back in 1972. The lowest 12 average temperatures for the period were all recorded before the year 2010, with the start of summer 2012 being the coldest in the 21st century at 12.77°C.

Plenty more stats and graphs in the link.
War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
25 July 2024 06:48:54
Another article with interesting graphs
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c147v82gxp2o 
No agenda; please treat simply as statement of fact
War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
28 July 2024 22:16:58
I was out walking on the Hampshire Downs today and combining (Barley, I think) was in full swing.


The point to this is that a farming acquaintance in Essex always used to take holidays in July and come back at the start of August for the harvest, but in 1976 had to come back early i.e. in the last week of July as the corn was ripe. Now it seems that despite all the moaning about a cold summer, the harvest is about a week earlier than it was 50 years ago.

War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Rob K
30 July 2024 17:29:17

I was out walking on the Hampshire Downs today and combining (Barley, I think) was in full swing.


The point to this is that a farming acquaintance in Essex always used to take holidays in July and come back at the start of August for the harvest, but in 1976 had to come back early i.e. in the last week of July as the corn was ripe. Now it seems that despite all the moaning about a cold summer, the harvest is about a week earlier than it was 50 years ago.

Originally Posted by: DEW 



Our blackberries are well into their peak now, and the pears are fattening up nicely.

I have to say that after a poor start this summer is not bad at all. Makes a nice change to have some decent weather in the school holidays, rather than the usual glorious June that turns to crud as soon as the kids break up.

August will be make or break for whether 2024 goes down as a good summer. A decent August (especially for my week in Cornwall during the third week) will put it firmly in the good camp.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

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