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roadrunnerajn
18 November 2019 06:27:55
The GFS 00z is a horror show towards the end.... high pressure over Europe with it’s centre on France producing a S to SW flow of very mild air.
Germoe, part of the breakaway Celtic Republic.
Heavy Weather 2013
18 November 2019 06:57:12

The GFS 00z is a horror show towards the end.... high pressure over Europe with it’s centre on France producing a S to SW flow of very mild air.

Originally Posted by: roadrunnerajn 


Agreed. Thankfully it’s right at the end and other runs in the pack go to the other extreme.


Its not a chart we want to see. I could be wrong but that is a Bartlett high if I ever saw one.


Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
18 November 2019 07:09:24

GFS0z has this week's LP decaying as it moves off SE wards. For week 2 it has a series of Atlantic lows moving NW off Scotland and linking up with a depression off N Norway which could give Scotland some very cold air briefly. Then as Jim says, HP moves in from the south and looks well established by 3rd Dec - but it could easily be frost and fog rather than mild.


I don't entirely buy in to this scenario (a) it's quite different from yesterday, implying instability in the models (b) the jet stream continues to run first south of and then across the UK so I'd expect the current pattern of wet weather to continue 


ECM 0z has a similar pattern to the end of its run on the 24th.


GEFS confirms the instability with a wild scatter of temps after a brief burst of warmth on the 25th. Rain is general from the 23rd (a bit earlier in the SW) but again no agreement between the runs as to when and where.


 


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
moomin75
18 November 2019 07:14:41

The GFS 00z is a horror show towards the end.... high pressure over Europe with it’s centre on France producing a S to SW flow of very mild air.

Originally Posted by: roadrunnerajn 


On the contrary, 15-17c in December would feel lovely. If we can't go cold, then early spring will do just fine. 


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
doctormog
18 November 2019 07:40:36


 


On the contrary, 15-17c in December would feel lovely. If we can't go cold, then early spring will do just fine. 


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


It would be however it is one scenario from the ensembles and many of the other anticyclonic options are somewhat more seasonal 



JACKO4EVER
18 November 2019 07:48:55


 


On the contrary, 15-17c in December would feel lovely. If we can't go cold, then early spring will do just fine. 


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


mooms I agree but I would add caution, there are a number of scenarios and “in between” options that may or may not occur, HP at this time of year can often lead to low level cold and fog no matter what the uppers say. 
however 17c would be toasty 🤣👍

johncs2016
18 November 2019 07:49:43


 


The thing that stands out for me on the 12z GFS is the real struggle the lows are having in moving east of the meridian - it's like there's an invisible wall there repelling them!


 


Originally Posted by: Retron 


That was already happening to a certain extent even when all of the flooding was taking place down south and because of that, I have forgotten the last time that we actually had any significant measurable rainfall here in Edinburgh as that was so long ago (over those bits of rainfall which have affected the east coast of Scotland have been too far east to affect us in any way).


The GFS in particular looks like carrying on that pattern and if that is the case, this month could well actually be on course to go down as our first drier than average month here since April, in terms of the actual rainfall amounts.


 


The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
roadrunnerajn
18 November 2019 07:52:53


 


On the contrary, 15-17c in December would feel lovely. If we can't go cold, then early spring will do just fine. 


Originally Posted by: moomin75 

I agree but down here that pattern usually gives us a heavy Autumnal gloom with mizzle and a perpetual temperature reflecting the sea temp.


Germoe, part of the breakaway Celtic Republic.
Brian Gaze
18 November 2019 07:56:38

There is a long way to go but the latest stamps would lead me to go for a milder than average December. Things could change a lot several times before I even make a call so it is purely a snapshot view.


https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/gefs.aspx?run=na&charthour=384&chartname=ps_500hpa&chartregion=na-region&p=1&charttag=PS%20500hPa%20(GPDM)


 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Heavy Weather 2013
18 November 2019 08:08:38


 


On the contrary, 15-17c in December would feel lovely. If we can't go cold, then early spring will do just fine. 


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


17C in December. Its a no from me.


Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
The Beast from the East
18 November 2019 09:12:38


 


17C in December. Its a no from me.


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


Great for canvassing and will boost turnout if election day is mild and dry 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Rob K
18 November 2019 09:22:36


 


It would be however it is one scenario from the ensembles and many of the other anticyclonic options are somewhat more seasonal 



Originally Posted by: doctormog 


To me that suggests the likelihood is a fairly cool start to December after a mild blip at the weekend. But a chance of the milder air hanging on.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
David M Porter
18 November 2019 09:59:59

The fact that the MetO updates over the past few days have been mentioning the possibility of wintry precipitation over high ground at times over as we head towards December suggests to me that even if it does turn somewhat milder compared to recently, it is unlikely to be especially mild. At least in the north, that is.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Brian Gaze
18 November 2019 11:12:54

Screaming northerly on the trusty GFS 06z. Perhaps it's time for the much maligned "toppler" to make a comeback.



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Saint Snow
18 November 2019 11:42:41


Screaming northerly on the trusty GFS 06z. Perhaps it's time for the much maligned "toppler" to make a comeback.



Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


 


That chart sure is a thing of beauty


 


 


Edit: and technically, isn't that very much a positive NAO 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
JOHN NI
18 November 2019 11:54:59


 


 


That chart sure is a thing of beauty


 


 


Edit: and technically, isn't that very much a positive NAO 


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Except the operational is nearly at the bottom of the ensemble pack by then....


John.
The orange County of Armagh.
Saint Snow
18 November 2019 12:07:23


 


Except the operational is nearly at the bottom of the ensemble pack by then....


Originally Posted by: JOHN NI 


 


Pft! Mere detail. Begone with your curmudgeon.


 


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Lionel Hutz
18 November 2019 12:32:06


Screaming northerly on the trusty GFS 06z. Perhaps it's time for the much maligned "toppler" to make a comeback.



Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


If that came off, it could be a bit more than a toppler - signs of a Greenland High developing. However, it is presumably only once of many options given the spread in the ensembles. Still, nice to look at...


Lionel Hutz
Nr.Waterford , S E Ireland
68m ASL



doctormog
18 November 2019 13:41:04


 


Except the operational is nearly at the bottom of the ensemble pack by then....


Originally Posted by: JOHN NI 


In the same way the 00z op model was at the top at the end of the run. Both are equally extreme/likely/unlikely. (Although realistically no doubt the milder option is more probable).


Maunder Minimum
18 November 2019 13:44:09

The old SSW malarkey is around:


https://twitter.com/judah47/status/1196413242672926722?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw


Prospects of an SSW in early December are improving, but as we saw in January this year, they do not necessarily deliver the goodies in our neck of the woods.


New world order coming.
JOHN NI
18 November 2019 14:18:39


The old SSW malarkey is around:


https://twitter.com/judah47/status/1196413242672926722?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw


Prospects of an SSW in early December are improving, but as we saw in January this year, they do not necessarily deliver the goodies in our neck of the woods.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Yes and with the probability of a switch from a westerly QBO to an easterly some time in the next couple of months - in theory at least the two combined (or in proximity) should increase the chances of colder weather types later in the winter. Thats my current thinking anyway....though this can also be masked by just plain old climatology as that'll normally the coldest period of the year anyway. 


John.
The orange County of Armagh.
Heavy Weather 2013
18 November 2019 15:09:08


The old SSW malarkey is around:


https://twitter.com/judah47/status/1196413242672926722?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw


Prospects of an SSW in early December are improving, but as we saw in January this year, they do not necessarily deliver the goodies in our neck of the woods.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Waiting for the SSW last year was like pulling teeth.


Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Saint Snow
18 November 2019 15:17:39


Waiting for the SSW last year was like...


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


 


...waiting for a Northern Rail train



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Heavy Weather 2013
18 November 2019 15:36:30


 


 


...waiting for a Northern Rail train


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 



Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Saint Snow
18 November 2019 15:54:44


 



Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


 


"...people kept saying one was on the way, but it never seemed to arrive and when it finally did, it didn't do much"


 


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan

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