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Rob K
02 January 2020 11:24:52

OK so 1868-69 is the mildest CET winter on record: Dec 7.2, Jan 5.6, Feb 7.5 making a total of 20.3 "degree months". (I'm simplifying and assuming all months are the same length here)

We are currently at 5.8 so we need 14.6 from January and February to beat that. Splitting the difference at 7.3C for both would require a joint second mildest January (equalling 1921 and 1796; the record is 1916 at 7.5C), and a joint third mildest February (matching 1998 and 1990; the top two are 1779 at 7.9C and 1869 at 7.5C).

It could happen but it would take an exceptionally prolonged pattern lasting for the next two months.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Scandy 1050 MB
02 January 2020 11:26:28


Given the current output, I am going to stop checking the models for a month. January is clearly going to be a write-off and I doubt that February will bring any relief. As per usual in these scenarios, it will be when the delicate buds are opening in mid to late March, before a late winter snap will bite.


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Yes that's the concern - given Easter is mid April this year it almost looks like a text book winter spell could occur end of March and into April. Just for fun I had a look at the CFS long range model early this morning and unsurprisingly late March into April we have constant air from the east and north..typical!  For the immediate time frame apart from the odd rogue member in the GFS suite nothing but relentless zonality all the way out to 384 hours away.  With SST's the way they are and the AO highly positive with the NAO trending that way too, there's not much chance of anything cold on the horizon with that sort of set up. 

Brian Gaze
02 January 2020 11:26:50

OK so 1868-69 is the mildest CET winter on record: Dec 7.2, Jan 5.6, Feb 7.5 making a total of 20.3 "degree months".

We are currently at 5.8 so we need 14.6 from January and February to beat that. Splitting the difference at 7.3C for both would require a joint second mildest January (equalling 1921 and 1796; the record is 1916 at 7.5C), and a joint third mildest February (matching 1998 and 1990; the top two are 1779 at 7.9C and 1869 at 7.5C).

It could happen but it would take an exceptionally prolonged pattern lasting for the next two months.


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


What about for the UK as a whole rather than CET area? Also, what would it take to get into the top 10 mildest winters either by CET or UK temperatures? 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
tallyho_83
02 January 2020 11:29:29

Oh dear this nightmare of a winter continues - from start to finish on the 06z run and look at the crazy warmth here - looks like you have to go to northern Russia to find sub-zero daytime maxes take a look at forecast /proposed temp chart for +222 (11th):


The only comfort I get is knowing that the UK isn't alone. I don't think an easterly will bring anything cold so perhaps a northerly? Iceland is the only country with sub zero daytime maxes so here's to a northerly!?


Alps could have a major issue here with lack of snow - esp given such a stubborn Euro HP. - Been so persistent Hasn't it.?



Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


tallyho_83
02 January 2020 11:36:53

Ensembles for NYC - they are not having a break from the deluge either:


Some precipitation ensembles go off the scale!! - Looks lie they will get plan old rain rather than snow.



Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Rob K
02 January 2020 11:39:09


 


What about for the UK as a whole rather than CET area? Also, what would it take to get into the top 10 mildest winters either by CET or UK temperatures? 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


I don't have the stats to hand or the time, unfortunately, maybe someone else does? I imagine Scotland might be up there with the mildest conditions.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Brian Gaze
02 January 2020 11:40:02

559dam on the GFS 06z.



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
tallyho_83
02 January 2020 11:43:59

Look at this exceptional warmth in central Europe moreso over the Alps for next 2 weeks: No ensemble members going down to -10@ 850hpa this is so unusual. There are one or two going up to +10 @ 850hpa on 10th January with many at or above +5c.



Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


fairweather
02 January 2020 12:11:46

I've given up on cold for the short term but am now looking at the models for signs of just a glimpse of sunshine now and again. Would be nice!


S.Essex, 42m ASL
tallyho_83
02 January 2020 12:52:36

Finally found somewhere colder than normal - Northern Canada - if you want cold perhaps Rockies is the place to be and or northern Canada- Look at Yellowknife NWT: - Doc?


 



Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


JACKO4EVER
02 January 2020 13:53:12


Finally found somewhere colder than normal - Northern Canada - if you want cold perhaps Rockies is the place to be and or northern Canada- Look at Yellowknife NWT: - Doc?


 



Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


dont worry Tally the cold will eventually arrive- probably around late springtime knowing our luck. Some exceptional output at the minute- some of those thicknesses are insane. We worth a screenshot or two for posterity 

nsrobins
02 January 2020 15:17:58

Maybe something a little more promising on extended EC anomalies with increase in heights further North than previous update:


https://twitter.com/judah47/status/1212749543030345728?s=21


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
jhall
02 January 2020 15:55:26


 


What about for the UK as a whole rather than CET area? Also, what would it take to get into the top 10 mildest winters either by CET or UK temperatures? 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Up until about 10 years ago, when I did the analysis, the mildest winters in the CET series were:


1. 1868-9 6.7


2. 1833-4 6.6


3. 2006-7 6.5


4. 1988-9 6.5


5. 1974-5 6.5


6. 1685-6 6.3 (in the coldest period of the LIA and just two years after the coldest winter on record!)


7. 1989-90 6.3


8. 1795-6 6.3


9. 1934-5 6.1


10. 1997-8 6.1


11. 1733-4 6.1


 


I've included #11 because #2, #9 and #11 suggest a period of close to 100 years for some very mild winters. Just a coincidence, surely?


Cranleigh, Surrey
David M Porter
02 January 2020 16:04:33


 


Up until about 10 years ago, when I did the analysis, the mildest winters in the CET series were:


1. 1868-9 6.7


2. 1833-4 6.6


3. 2006-7 6.5


4. 1988-9 6.5


5. 1974-5 6.5


6. 1685-6 6.3 (in the coldest period of the LIA and just two years after the coldest winter on record!)


7. 1989-90 6.3


8. 1795-6 6.3


9. 1934-5 6.1


10. 1997-8 6.1


11. 1733-4 6.1


 


I've included #11 because #2, #9 and #11 suggest a period of close to 100 years for some very mild winters. Just a coincidence, surely?


Originally Posted by: jhall 


Interesting to note IMO that of those 11 winters, only four are from the post-1988 era with five of them coming in the 19th century or earlier than that.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
jhall
02 January 2020 16:35:01


 


Interesting to note IMO that of those 11 winters, only four are from the post-1988 era with five of them coming in the 19th century or earlier than that.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Yes, it shows that there have always been very mild winters, though they've clearly become more frequent recently. As I said, my figures only go up to about 10 years ago. Since then, there may well have been one or two more winters making the top 10. It's also interesting how close together the mildest winters are, while the coldest ones are much more spread out.


I should mention that in deriving the values I took the different lengths of the months into account, except that it would have been too fiddly to handle Leap Years correctly so I took February as always having 28 days. The error introduced is tiny. Also up to 1698, the lack of reliable data means that the CET monthly means can only be estimated to the nearest half-degree. So the figure for that very mild winter of 1685-6 could easily be out by 0.1 or even 0.2 degrees in either direction.


Cranleigh, Surrey
idj20
02 January 2020 17:04:07

Starting to look more and more like the Bartlett Winters of '88 & 89. 


Folkestone Harbour. 
Richard K
02 January 2020 17:13:35
Just passed a few minutes looking through the GFS 12z. Quite remarkable for lack of anything of any interest at all for my location (and not a lot for anywhere else in northwest Europe).
Saffron Walden, NW Essex, approx 70m above sea level (when the tide is out)
Northern Sky
02 January 2020 17:17:11

Just passed a few minutes looking through the GFS 12z. Quite remarkable for lack of anything of any interest at all for my location (and not a lot for anywhere else in northwest Europe).

Originally Posted by: Richard K 


Yep absolutely awful, even the shots of PM air have pretty much disappeared. 


 

Gusty
02 January 2020 17:17:25


Starting to look more and more like the Bartlett Winters of '88 & 89. 


Originally Posted by: idj20 


In fairness we are due one.


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
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JACKO4EVER
02 January 2020 17:29:58


 


Interesting to note IMO that of those 11 winters, only four are from the post-1988 era with five of them coming in the 19th century or earlier than that.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


4 since 1988, the rest over a 300 odd year period. Voldemort weather, says it all really. 

David M Porter
02 January 2020 17:36:22


 


4 since 1988, the rest over a 300 odd year period. Voldemort weather, says it all really. 


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


True, although none of them managed to dethrone 1868-69 as the mildest on record.


Just goes to show how far this winter will have to go to do that.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Retron
02 January 2020 17:36:36


 


In fairness we are due one.


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


Not as much as we're due a midwinter easterly! It's a shame probability doesn't work like the way I'd want it to, it'd be nice to think that every winter we don't have one increases the chance of the next one having one, but of course it doesn't.


Still, for once there are two members of GEFS bringing -10s to London. There's even an easterly if you look hard enough...


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?code=6&ech=324&mode=0&carte=0


 


 


 


Leysdown, north Kent
Rob K
02 January 2020 17:37:39
Maybe all that smoke from Australia will blot out the sun and send us into an ice age.... no?
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
JACKO4EVER
02 January 2020 17:46:39

Maybe all that smoke from Australia will blot out the sun and send us into an ice age.... no?

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


more likely to cause a cool miserable summer 

idj20
02 January 2020 17:47:09

Maybe all that smoke from Australia will blot out the sun and send us into an ice age.... no?

Originally Posted by: Rob K 



The global effects will be neglectible as it's mostly close to surface level and would just get washed down in rain or snow at the first opportunity, a volcanic eruption often send ash into the stratospheric level and filter out the sun's rays from higher up - and even then needs to be Mount St Helen-strength to have any knock on effects. 
 If anything, the smoke from Australia fires ending up on snowfields at New Zealand making it dirty may have the effect of speeding up thawing on a local scale. And can atmospheric pollution be transferred from the southern hemisphere to the northern half anyway? 


Folkestone Harbour. 

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