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Lionel Hutz
18 January 2020 22:33:37


 


That's not snow depths. It's how much has fallen in previous days. In the previous 7 days some mountainous parts of southern norway have seen between 150cm-250cm fall.. good for skiing wouldn't you say?


Originally Posted by: picturesareme 


OT, but I think that I misinterpreted your original post - as Bertwhistle also pointed out!


Lionel Hutz
Nr.Waterford , S E Ireland
68m ASL



tallyho_83
18 January 2020 23:35:17

18z ensembles for London - a lot of scatter come end of January:



Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
19 January 2020 07:26:43

Jetstream meandering this week, forming a cut-off low over Iberia by Tue. Branch to the N of UK resumes fairly soon, then briefly splitting next weekend before roaring strongly directly across the UK the following week. Hints of more cut-offs after that i.e from Mon 3rd.


In line with above, GFS has changed its outlook and only keeps the anticyclone around for this week (yesterday's forecast was for two weeks) and the HP's just about gone by Fri 24th. For the following week, strong zonal flow with occasional brief but deep embedded disturbances bringing some quite cold air from the NW (Mon 27th, 945mb, Rockall; Thu 30th, 945 mb, Shetland; Sat 1st, 990mb, Irish Sea). End of run, it can't decide - Mon 3rd high pressure but Tue 4th large low pressure heading down from Iceland.


ECM agrees, but the disturbances are less deep and further north.


GEFS less certain than yesterday. In the S, cool for a couple of days, then 1-2C above normal to Sat 25th after which a wide scatter but the mean is around the seasonal norm, and more indication than yesterday of rain from Mon 27th. In the N the mildness and the scatter are more pronounced and the far N (Inverness) has a lot of rain/snow in week 2 with daily snow row figures in the teens every day from 26th Jan. 


 


For  followers of the 'three weeks after the East Coast of N America' model, Newfoundland has just had a record snowfall of 30".


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
nsrobins
19 January 2020 08:05:55


For  followers of the 'three weeks after the East Coast of N America' model, Newfoundland has just had a record snowfall of 30".


Originally Posted by: DEW 


And the earth is flat and David Icke is running for Prime Minister.


(good summary by the way).


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Bertwhistle
19 January 2020 08:40:03


 


That's not snow depths. It's how much has fallen in previous days. In the previous 7 days some mountainous parts of southern norway have seen between 150cm-250cm fall.. good for skiing wouldn't you say?


Originally Posted by: picturesareme 


Not if its inaccessible and out of resort. Now look at the snow conditions box on the right. "Good piste: zero. Powder: zero." Slushy, sticky muck. 


Really, not good for skiing. 


Back to models, and the GFS suite continues to lack excitement outside of the pressure pattern. The fax charts offer 1050mb right over us here. In my recording history I don't think I've exceeded 1048 ever- started recording in '81 so perhaps someone could correct me for CS England?


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
nsrobins
19 January 2020 08:45:57
The UKMO written outlook is my go to in these difficult times for coldies. It remains consistent and doesn’t react to the vagaries of model output. It’s also performed impressively this winter.
I’m not saying long range skills are there yet - not by a long way - and the MO doesn’t get it right all the time, but their extended forecasts are as good as any IMO.
Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Ally Pally Snowman
19 January 2020 09:00:17

The UKMO written outlook is my go to in these difficult times for coldies. It remains consistent and doesn’t react to the vagaries of model output. It’s also performed impressively this winter.
I’m not saying long range skills are there yet - not by a long way - and the MO doesn’t get it right all the time, but their extended forecasts are as good as any IMO.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


 


This year yes , last year emphatically no it was farcically bad. It was constantly predicting blocked cold weather in its 2 to 4 week forecast which never occurred. It's obviously much easier predicting mild westerlies. 


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Ally Pally Snowman
19 January 2020 09:06:57


 


Not if its inaccessible and out of resort. Now look at the snow conditions box on the right. "Good piste: zero. Powder: zero." Slushy, sticky muck. 


Really, not good for skiing. 


Back to models, and the GFS suite continues to lack excitement outside of the pressure pattern. The fax charts offer 1050mb right over us here. In my recording history I don't think I've exceeded 1048 ever- started recording in '81 so perhaps someone could correct me for CS England?


Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 


 


We have to be on for the least snowy European winter on record surely?


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Whether Idle
19 January 2020 10:13:03

The UKMO written outlook is my go to in these difficult times for coldies. It remains consistent and doesn’t react to the vagaries of model output. It’s also performed impressively this winter.
I’m not saying long range skills are there yet - not by a long way - and the MO doesn’t get it right all the time, but their extended forecasts are as good as any IMO.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


 Met O are having a good winter, for sure.  Agree re extended outlooks.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Whether Idle
19 January 2020 10:18:33

GFS 6z a cooler run by some margin than the 0z


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Hippydave
19 January 2020 10:54:00


GFS 6z a cooler run by some margin than the 0z


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Yup there's a frustrating lack of consistency in the longer range at present - one ens set goes milder, next cooler, etc. The current spikes and dips suggests an unsettled pattern with enough amplification to allow cold air to be dragged down at times but not more than that imo.


We could get lucky with timing and see some transient snow I guess but I imagine if the unsettled signal ticks up we'll again be looking at flooding down here rather than cold. Locally Tonbridge park was under water again after the recent rainfall (not unusual but it's been like it a lot lately which is less normal) and a number of the local rivers have been consistently at the higher end of their ranges.


 


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
Gusty
19 January 2020 12:03:15

High pressure ebbs away by Friday with an atlantic return by next Sunday. Temperatures climbing. Winter remains absent.


There is still a signal for a blip circa 29/1..no doubt this brief amplication is noise that will get flattened by the roaring jet as we approach a more reliable time frame.


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
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Retron
19 January 2020 15:53:49

No surpsie to see that yet again the -5C line proved elusive for London, despite the past few days' runs showing it being reached.

http://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?x=306&y=141&ext=1&run=0&ville=Londres&runpara=0&type=6

I honestly can't remember a winter where we've only had 12 hours of it by the 18th January!

Originally Posted by: Retron 


...and still only 12 hours. Unsurprisingly as the time drew near the -5C line remained absent.


http://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?x=306&y=141&run=6&ville=Londres&runpara=0&ext=1&type=6


(There is of course nothing special about it, merely that it makes a nice benchmark to use to compare winters. It's also one of the first things I look for regarding cold spells!)


Leysdown, north Kent
Retron
19 January 2020 15:55:51


High pressure ebbs away by Friday with an atlantic return by next Sunday. Temperatures climbing. Winter remains absent.


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


What a poor performance by the ensembles there! I'm surprised to see so many members just showing 1 or 2C as a high today, when even the op was way off... (London City airport was reporting 8C at 3:20 PM today).


Leysdown, north Kent
Rob K
19 January 2020 16:04:43


 


What a poor performance by the ensembles there! I'm surprised to see so many members just showing 1 or 2C as a high today, when even the op was way off... (London City airport was reporting 8C at 3:20 PM today).


Originally Posted by: Retron 


That must be a resolution issue, surely? The ensembles are totally flat with no diurnal range. 


Not sure what the official max here was but the frost is still thick on the grass and shaded roofs. 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Brian Gaze
19 January 2020 16:07:42

The UKMO written outlook is my go to in these difficult times for coldies. It remains consistent and doesn’t react to the vagaries of model output. It’s also performed impressively this winter.
I’m not saying long range skills are there yet - not by a long way - and the MO doesn’t get it right all the time, but their extended forecasts are as good as any IMO.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


I think they've been decent but if anything have underbaked temperatures. January CET is currently more than 3.5C above average and I can't recall that many mentions of mild weather in southern and central counties. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
doctormog
19 January 2020 16:45:02
A messy and at times chilly outlook in the medium term on the 12z GFS op run. No doubt due to disappear in the the 18z...
Brian Gaze
19 January 2020 16:50:34


 


That must be a resolution issue, surely? The ensembles are totally flat with no diurnal range. 


Not sure what the official max here was but the frost is still thick on the grass and shaded roofs. 


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


I don't think that is correct. The TWO plot shows max and min forecast 2m temps from all of the runs. During the first couple of days they are very tightly clustered and the diurnal range showing is approx 0C to 6C for the London plot. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
idj20
19 January 2020 17:05:25

Doesn't take a lot for the Atlantic to wake up again and act like the jerk it normally is at this time of the year but hopefully high pressure will never be too far away as we go into February. Might even end up with an early heatwave like last February.   


Folkestone Harbour. 
Rob K
19 January 2020 17:33:46


 


I don't think that is correct. The TWO plot shows max and min forecast 2m temps from all of the runs. During the first couple of days they are very tightly clustered and the diurnal range showing is approx 0C to 6C for the London plot. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


But the graph posted above seems to only show a big diurnal range for the op and one or two other runs, is what I meant. The others show very little range.


 


12Z tries to build a Scandi high in the second half of the run but it gets blown away pretty quickly.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Brian Gaze
19 January 2020 17:46:22


 


But the graph posted above seems to only show a big diurnal range for the op and one or two other runs, is what I meant. The others show very little range.


 

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


I've annotated. What you think is the op and one or two other runs is actually the tmax 2m from all 23 runs stepped at 6 hour intervals. The lower cluster shows the tmin 2m from all 23 runs. It is this variable which is showing little diurnal variation because at this time of year the days are short (i.e. similar min values can be found in the 4 steps which are 00:00 GMT to 06:00 GMT, 06:00 GMT to 12:00 GMT, 12:00 GMT to 18:00 GMT and 18:00 GMT to 00:00 GMT)   


 



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Rob K
19 January 2020 18:02:09


 


I've annotated. What you think is the op and one or two other runs is actually the tmax 2m from all 23 runs stepped at 6 hour intervals. The lower cluster shows the tmin 2m from all 23 runs. It is this variable which is showing little diurnal variation because at this time of year the days are short (i.e. similar min values can be found in the 4 steps which are 00:00 GMT to 06:00 GMT, 06:00 GMT to 12:00 GMT, 12:00 GMT to 18:00 GMT and 18:00 GMT to 00:00 GMT)   


 



Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


 


Ah, got it. Me being stupid and misreading the chart. Maybe I could get a job on the Express...


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
JACKO4EVER
19 January 2020 18:10:46


Doesn't take a lot for the Atlantic to wake up again and act like the jerk it normally is at this time of the year but hopefully high pressure will never be too far away as we go into February. Might even end up with an early heatwave like last February.   


Originally Posted by: idj20 


yes quite, at this rate we will be looking for the first Spanish plumes than anything more akin to winter. The borefest continues unabated, truly remarkable lack of winter proper throughout Europe, possibly record breaking it so 

Brian Gaze
19 January 2020 18:14:47

I'll lock at 18:18 and start a new thread.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

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