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Rob K
02 January 2020 17:57:49




The global effects will be neglectible as it's mostly close to surface level and would just get washed down in rain or snow at the first opportunity, a volcanic eruption often send ash into the stratospheric level and filter out the sun's rays from higher up - and even then needs to be Mount St Helen-strength to have any knock on effects. 
 If anything, the smoke from Australia fires ending up on snowfields at New Zealand making it dirty may have the effect of speeding up thawing on a local scale. And can atmospheric pollution be transferred from the southern hemisphere to the northern half anyway? 


Originally Posted by: idj20 


I wasn't being entirely serious. But Krakatoa supposedly caused colourful sunsets around the world, even in the UK, so I guess if it's high enough altitude it can cross the equator. And of course CFCs, largely from the northern hemisphere, migrated to Antarctica to cause the ozone hole.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." β€” Jerome K. Jerome
Saint Snow
02 January 2020 18:24:25


I wasn't being entirely serious. But Krakatoa supposedly caused colourful sunsets around the world, even in the UK


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


 


Last year, two rather modest eruptions (Russia & New Guinea) reportedly led to some spectacular sunsets in the UK.


And whilst Krakatoa did bring widespread amazing sunsets, the most famous one was Tambora.



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
fairweather
02 January 2020 18:47:06


 


Interesting to note IMO that of those 11 winters, only four are from the post-1988 era with five of them coming in the 19th century or earlier than that.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


?? Go back another decade and almost 50 % of them in the last 50 years or approx 20% of the period covered. Lack of snowfall in the last 50 years is even more striking.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
ballamar
02 January 2020 18:48:43
www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/ECMOPEU12_192_1.png

Could be quite cold at surface if clear with potential for freezing fog
fairweather
02 January 2020 18:49:58

During January I look at the long term mean 850's at -3C and think that in almost any other month we get -5C below average at some point but rarely in January!!


S.Essex, 42m ASL
ballamar
02 January 2020 18:58:38
ECM looks good this evening is it a rogue run?
moomin75
02 January 2020 19:00:13

ECM right at the very end of the run builds a Scandi High with low pressure over the eastern part of Europe. Perfect synoptic for a cold blast. Just need this to move forward to 24 hours then. Nailed on! πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
moomin75
02 January 2020 19:01:02

ECM looks good this evening is it a rogue run?

Originally Posted by: ballamar 


Beat me to it. Best ECM chart for weeks, bit sadly right out at the very end of the run. Nice to see all the same.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Hippydave
02 January 2020 19:14:14


 


Beat me to it. Best ECM chart for weeks, bit sadly right out at the very end of the run. Nice to see all the same.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


The ECM Op is pretty similar to a couple of the GFS members. A couple of the members have toyed with Scandi HP rises in mid/long range FI for a while which isn't unexpected with HP about but generally they've had the jet just shoving the HP south and leaving us on the mild side. 


As you say though the ECM nice to see if nothing else, even if odds are rather high on it being totally different by the morning.


Have a look at P1 and P6 for GFS 12z easterlies - P6 even brings one of those vanishingly rare battleground snow scenarios. Sadly on their own really although a few other members have HP just that bit further south.


A few crumbs of comfort in an otherwise pretty boring period of model watching


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
Rob K
02 January 2020 19:19:45


ECM right at the very end of the run builds a Scandi High with low pressure over the eastern part of Europe. Perfect synoptic for a cold blast. Just need this to move forward to 24 hours then. Nailed on! πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Yes and look at that phenomenal cold pool out to the east... even a couple of small spots below checks notes -10C at 850mb over the Baltic  


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." β€” Jerome K. Jerome
ballamar
02 January 2020 19:26:23


 


Yes and look at that phenomenal cold pool out to the east... even a couple of small spots below checks notes -10C at 850mb over the Baltic  


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


 


thos Synoptics would get cold very quickly and in that set up below temps in south UK

IanT
  • IanT
  • Advanced Member
02 January 2020 19:26:40
Adopting mean reversion as my principal forecasting tool I am confident that the charts will look better for cold lovers in one weeks time...
Woking, Surrey. 40m asl.
JACKO4EVER
02 January 2020 19:38:32


 


 


thos Synoptics would get cold very quickly and in that set up below temps in south UK


Originally Posted by: ballamar 


couid do, but apparently Norway is experiencing near record high temperatures- BBC report 


“Western Norway is experiencing a rare heatwave for early January, at a time when temperatures should normally be below freezing.


The highest temperature of 19C (66F) - more than 25C above the monthly average - was measured in the village of Sunndalsora.


This makes it Norway's warmest January day since records began.”

ballamar
02 January 2020 19:45:27


 


couid do, but apparently Norway is experiencing near record high temperatures- BBC report 


“Western Norway is experiencing a rare heatwave for early January, at a time when temperatures should normally be below freezing.


The highest temperature of 19C (66F) - more than 25C above the monthly average - was measured in the village of Sunndalsora.


This makes it Norway's warmest January day since records began.”


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


that is now the lead up would create a very cold flow. January gets very cold quickly

Arcus
02 January 2020 19:58:40

As Neil mentioned there's a tendency to build heights to the N into Scandi at the end of some of the model runs. JC's tweet however was based on an out-of-kilter GEFS suite that really looks desperately unskilled now compared to the main OP run, and has done through most of the winter so far.


It's only when you see the GFS Op and more importantly ECM coming round to the idea that I'd take it anywhere near seriously - ECM is clearly now toying with it in the far reaches, but it may well be a rinse and repeat operation as the models toy with what has been very conflicting signals thus far. 


As for some comments on QBO easterly recently - I don't see that at all. It's been opposed or sheared on vertical profiles, potential filtering down easterly to lower heights through Jan.


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Russwirral
02 January 2020 20:15:00


 


couid do, but apparently Norway is experiencing near record high temperatures- BBC report 


“Western Norway is experiencing a rare heatwave for early January, at a time when temperatures should normally be below freezing.


The highest temperature of 19C (66F) - more than 25C above the monthly average - was measured in the village of Sunndalsora.


This makes it Norway's warmest January day since records began.”


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


 


Next thursday might challenge that.... both in norway and UK


White Meadows
02 January 2020 20:21:01


 


I wasn't being entirely serious. But Krakatoa supposedly caused colourful sunsets around the world, even in the UK, so I guess if it's high enough altitude it can cross the equator. And of course CFCs, largely from the northern hemisphere, migrated to Antarctica to cause the ozone hole.


Originally Posted by: Rob K 

It’s true Krakatoa did indeed have global affects on sunsets - the source of inspiration for the red sky within the infamous’Scream’ painting during that era:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scream


 

JACKO4EVER
02 January 2020 20:46:41


 


 


Next thursday might challenge that.... both in norway and UK


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


absolutely something to watch. 

White Meadows
02 January 2020 22:56:33
....πŸ‚.....
White Meadows
02 January 2020 22:59:02
So quiet in here.
Hardly a surprise - the outlook continues to be so, so dire for cold potential.
Could be β€˜lights out see you next time’ in a couple of weeks.
Saint Snow
02 January 2020 23:13:05

....πŸ‚.....

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


 


Yes, we're in autumn, the season that lasts 10 months of the year, from August to May.



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Gandalf The White
03 January 2020 00:14:36

So quiet in here.
Hardly a surprise - the outlook continues to be so, so dire for cold potential.
Could be ‘lights out see you next time’ in a couple of weeks.

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


Even in two weeks the reliable charts won’t even cover the end of January. We can still see wintry weather into early/mid March.


There really isn’t anything exceptional in the charts and mild weather is more a part of our winter than cold.  Mild and benign is less common but therefore more noteworthy.


ECM 12z ensemble for London certainly doesn’t scream wall-to-wall mild conditions


 



 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
03 January 2020 06:20:02

Some optimism in here last night but GFS is having none of it - continuing zonal, a bit of SW stormy stuff around the 13t/14th, then back to a continental high in just the right place (or wrong place, if you prefer) to pull up southerly airflow by Sun 19th. The temp summary shows cold air retreating ever further east www.wxmaps.org/pix/temp4.


ECM on same tack though it has the gales a bit earlier and has quietened down by the 12th (end of TWO display)


GEFS consistently mild to about 9th Jan in the south, temps up and down in the north but nothing really cold, then everywhere settling down with most runs a degree or two above average to 19th Jan. Some rain in N & W, not much in the SE


There are a few perturbations with blue near the UK but well out in FI - it might take you 5 minutes scanning the postage stamps before you find one!


 


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
johncs2016
03 January 2020 06:31:10

In Gavin P.'s last video which he released yesterday, he showed us the latest GFS ensemble for here in Edinburgh at that time. In response to that, I thought that I would post the latest GFS ensembles chart from here on TWO to show how the overall outlook has been updated since then.


850hPa temperatures, precipitation and the snow row


In the above chart, we can see that the upper air temperatures briefly get a bit colder than average for a day or so before getting warmer yet again (though not to the same extent which I have recently seen on these charts for other locations which are further to the south). Beyond that, we then go into that zonal sine wave pattern which Gavin P. referred to in that video before everything levels off in the more unreliable time. This averages out at just above the LTA although there is a lot of scatter there which indicates the uncertainties which there are at more than a week or so out.


As for rainfall, the outlook appears from the above chart to be dry for the next few days before becoming more unsettled, and that was how Gavin P. described that in yesterday's video. One thing which was on Gavin P.'s chart which isn't on the above chart of course, is the the spike at the beginning which was yesterday's rainfall. That seemed to go up to around the 5 mm mark but in practice, we ended with just 3.4 mm from that at at Edinburgh Gogarbank along with 2.4 mm at the botanic gardens in Edinburgh which is slightly less than that spike on Gavin P.'s chart had predicted.


Furthermore, the above rainfall spikes for later on don't look as convincing as the ones on Gavin P.'s chart, although Gavin P. has often said that the new charts which he uses for that tend to overdo those precipitation spikes. Because of that, I'm still not convinced that it will actually become as unsettled as what Gavin P. had indicated in yesterday's video especially since most of those rainfall spikes are in the unreliable time frame with quite a lot of scatter.


From that, I therefore stand by my opening comment in this month's PW thread where I predicted that this month could well be our first drier than average month overall since last April although the above chart only takes us to just over halfway through this month and there is no telling what will actually happen after that. What I do know though, is that there are still no real sign of winter from the above chart although there are some ensemble members which go a bit colder than average at times in the less reliable time frame.


 


The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
Brian Gaze
03 January 2020 07:47:16

How do you like your mild? Mild, very mild or unusually mild. Take your pick.



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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