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Brian Gaze
24 January 2020 07:40:48

Attempts to control the spread appear to have failed. I suspected they would. The good news is when a virus transmits readily (as this appears to) the attrition rate is usually low otherwise it is self defeating. A virus with a high attrition rate (HIV is a good example) is generally difficult to catch.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Joe Bloggs
24 January 2020 07:54:20


 


I read overnight that the initial analysis suggests the source was a snake; a species hop from a reptile is very unusual.


I’m a decade younger than you but unlike you we’ve just arrived in Singapore.... 


Again, overnight reading suggested a 25% rate of the infection being serious’ but fatalities still limited to those with other health issues.


 


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


I fly to Singapore next Thursday. My concerns about this are only mild at the moment... but that could change very quickly. 


Keep me updated ;-) 



Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

Joe Bloggs
24 January 2020 08:09:55


Attempts to control the spread appear to have failed. I suspected they would. The good news is when a virus transmits readily (as this appears to) the attrition rate is usually low otherwise it is self defeating. A virus with a high attrition rate (HIV is a good example) is generally difficult to catch.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Yes. The misinformation surrounding HIV is still about these days. For the everyday person the only real way to catch HIV is by having unprotected sex (receptive anal sex by far the most risky), but even then it’s still quite difficult to transmit.  


There are still people who worry that you can catch it from kissing or that the virus is airborne. 



Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

Roger Parsons
24 January 2020 08:15:43

A useful list or two FYI....
List of zoonotic diseases
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/list-of-zoonotic-diseases/list-of-zoonotic-diseases 

Zoonoses [WHO]
https://www.who.int/zoonoses/diseases/en/ 

Zoonoses Report UK 2017
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/765111/UK_Zoonoses_report_2017.pdf 

For interest - the zoonosis I most feared when working with livestock in the tropics was brucellosis.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/agriculture/zoonoses-data-sheets/brucellosis.pdf 

Roger

RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
Gandalf The White
24 January 2020 08:29:55


 


I fly to Singapore next Thursday. My concerns about this are only mild at the moment... but that could change very quickly. 


Keep me updated ;-) 


Originally Posted by: Joe Bloggs 


LOL. If I stop posting assume the worst...


😉


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


four
  • four
  • Advanced Member
24 January 2020 09:25:18
By chance the Chinese have an experimental lab able to *contain* and work with viruses, guess where it is.
https://www.livescience.com/china-lab-meets-biosafety-levels-new-coronavirus.html 
Gandalf The White
24 January 2020 09:28:17

By chance the Chinese have an experimental lab able to *contain* and work with viruses, guess where it is.
Originally Posted by: four 

">https://www.livescience.com/china-lab-meets-biosafety-levels-new-coronavirus.html


We can always trust you to find a conspiracy theory and believe it.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


xioni2
24 January 2020 10:51:23

Even during swine flu you didn’t have cities being locked down.

I think there is more to this than meets the eye. Seriously worrying times.

Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


I don't think they are seriously worrying times at all, you need to keep some perspective and not affected so much by the media. Even if people start dying in this country, more people will die from the flu or from air pollution.


 

Gandalf The White
24 January 2020 10:55:58


 


I don't think they are seriously worrying times at all, you need to keep some perspective and not affected so much by the media. Even if people start dying in this country, more people will die from the flu or from air pollution.


 


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


I think the proper position is somewhere between your two comments.  We have insufficient information to make any accurate call about how this will play out.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


xioni2
24 January 2020 11:00:18


 I think the proper position is somewhere between your two comments. 


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


I don't think so. All we have to do is stay informed and always use good hygiene. Worrying too much about something like this is irrational. 

Rob K
24 January 2020 11:05:41


 


I don't think so. All we have to do is stay informed and always use good hygiene. Worrying too much about something like this is irrational. 


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


Quite right. Until the Russians manage to bioengineer it to make it more deadly, of course. 


 


Anyway, between a deadly virus and Betelgeuse going supernova, there's surely a decent chance we won't be around to have to go through Brexit...


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Saint Snow
24 January 2020 11:13:56


 


I don't think so. All we have to do is stay informed and always use good hygiene. Worrying too much about something like this is irrational. 


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


 


Four will make himself doubly-safe with the application of tinfoil to his head.


 


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Brian Gaze
24 January 2020 11:27:51

By chance the Chinese have an experimental lab able to *contain* and work with viruses, guess where it is.
Originally Posted by: four 

">https://www.livescience.com/china-lab-meets-biosafety-levels-new-coronavirus.html


I know life can be very boring on the NYM. But I'm sure you can do better. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Essan
24 January 2020 11:32:04


I think the proper position is somewhere between your two comments.  We have insufficient information to make any accurate call about how this will play out.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 



We have no information to suggest this is anything more to worry about than normal seasonal flu, which kills thousands of people every year.   Or, indeed, the more deadly viruses that wiped out half the planet in recent years like Swine 'Flu and SARS.


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Heavy Weather 2013
24 January 2020 11:44:02


 


I don't think they are seriously worrying times at all, you need to keep some perspective and not affected so much by the media. Even if people start dying in this country, more people will die from the flu or from air pollution.


 


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


We have a flu season every year and people die, you are quite right. But what doesn't happen are the closure of entire cities. That didn't even happen with Swine flu. 


I think there was an element of cover up with this to start with and far more are infected. The incubation period is apparently quite long. It could well be that in the next 7 days this will spiral out of control based on those infected already.


Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Roger Parsons
24 January 2020 12:42:18
It's good to see folks taking an interest in epidemiology. I take it you all contribute to "flusurvey".
https://www.flusurvey.net/ 

I have plugged this on TWO before - but not for a couple of years - but I always do it. Hope you do too.
You know how important it is to have data.
Roger
RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
four
  • four
  • Advanced Member
24 January 2020 12:46:00


">https://www.livescience.com/china-lab-meets-biosafety-levels-new-coronavirus.html

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


We can always trust you to find a conspiracy theory and believe it.




Where is the conspiracy you only need a cockup.
The link merely points out that Wuhan is the only Chinese city which has a specialised lab working with SARs type viruses, what a spot of luck.

I'm reminded of the last F & M outbreak which was caused by a research lab swilling stuff down a broken drain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_United_Kingdom_foot-and-mouth_outbreak


Northern Sky
24 January 2020 12:55:45
I linked a podcast about biotech a while ago - probably best not to give it listen at the moment...

It's not conspiracy theories btw. Some of the things said by renowned international scientists and experts in the field are pretty terrifying.
Brian Gaze
24 January 2020 12:59:40


 


We have a flu season every year and people die, you are quite right. But what doesn't happen are the closure of entire cities. That didn't even happen with Swine flu. 


I think there was an element of cover up with this to start with and far more are infected. The incubation period is apparently quite long. It could well be that in the next 7 days this will spiral out of control based on those infected already.


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


That's because the flu viruses are already in global circulation and locking down a city would be pointless. This is apparently a new virus and the epicentre appears to be known, therefore trying to contain it via lock-down possibly has merit. However, it seems clear the attempts have not worked. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Roger Parsons
24 January 2020 16:19:51


That's because the flu viruses are already in global circulation and locking down a city would be pointless. This is apparently a new virus and the epicentre appears to be known, therefore trying to contain it via lock-down possibly has merit. However, it seems clear the attempts have not worked. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


The scale of the potential problem: " ...travel restrictions have been expanded to 13 cities - home to more than 36 million people - in Hubei province, the centre of the outbreak. Wuhan, where the outbreak began, is ...home to around 11 million people" [BBC today] More than 800 cases currently confirmed in China. [The current population of the UK is approx 68 million. London has over 8 million people.]


As Brian says, containment was worth trying, but a long shot, and it now looks as if this has not worked. That should not surprise anyone.


You don't need a conspiracy theory to give yourself something to worry about. As I pointed out elsewhere, other factors could make the situation even more risky. e.g. Lock down holds people in households in close proximity, and potentially in proximity to possible reservoir hosts. When I studied this issue in an animal-health context the dangers of host-species cross-infection were being taken very seriously in the light of diseases such as Lassa fever and Rift Valley fever. The dangers could be a lot more complex than simple human to human transmission.


Roger


RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
Northern Sky
24 January 2020 16:54:53

Here you go - 


https://podtail.com/podcast/the-end-of-the-world-with-josh-clark/ep06-biotechnology/


Happy Friday! 


Btw not saying this virus is an escapee from a biotech lab but when you listen to the experts on this and examine the chances of this happening it's a little worrying. 


Also some very relevant info in terms of the spread of viruses etc.

Gandalf The White
24 January 2020 16:56:20




We have no information to suggest this is anything more to worry about than normal seasonal flu, which kills thousands of people every year.   Or, indeed, the more deadly viruses that wiped out half the planet in recent years like Swine 'Flu and SARS.


Originally Posted by: Essan 


Yes, but equally we have no information to suggest that this is not anything to worry about and that has been my point.  There is no need to panic but equally no basis for complacency either until we have reasonably accurate data on potency and transmission rates and the ability of the virus to mutate further.


An awful lot of work goes on in the background to ensure we (the world) are able to respond to these outbreaks effectively. It would seem that some here are under the misapprehension that these novel viruses just die out of their own accord; they don't.


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Roger Parsons
24 January 2020 17:02:16


I think the proper position is somewhere between your two comments.  We have insufficient information to make any accurate call about how this will play out.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Message for Gandalf - as your Inbox is full...


In the event of 'flu - maintain your body fluids - drink lots of water, then:


1 measure of Scotch, one spoonful of honey to taste - drink, repeat until replete.



Roger


p.s. Latest from BBC.


China coronavirus: UK tracing up to 2,000 Wuhan visitors


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51232163


R


RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
Bugglesgate
24 January 2020 18:12:50




That is absolutely horrible! Like something out of a horror film! I can’t say I’ve had the norovirus (touch wood), but know of many who have. 


The past two winter seasons I’ve really struggled with other viral infections though - cold after cold after cold. 


I get plenty of exercise and eat well, I personally blame my job and the associated stress. I can’t stay off work if I have a mild cold - it’s just not feasible in my line of work. 


Originally Posted by: Joe Bloggs 


Yes,  it isn't in the "heaps 'o' fun" category.  Had 2 doses over the  decades.  No idea where I got the first one from, but the 2nd one was wholly preventable and caused by my cousin NOT cancelling a family get together after one of her kids got the virus.  The little darling vomited in the kitchen sink.  After a hasty "mop up"  food preparation was resumed .  ALL the extended family, including myself got a dose of it - 20 odd people - a 100% infection rate !


It's difficult  to know what end to point in the direction of the "bog".  In the end I  just planted myself permanently on the thing with a bucket on my lap.  It's a draining experience (literately !) but at least it's over in a day or so.


 


 


 


 


Chris (It,its)
Between Newbury and Basingstoke
"When they are giving you their all, some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy banging your heart against some mad buggers wall"
Northern Sky
24 January 2020 19:36:34


 


Yes,  it isn't in the "heaps 'o' fun" category.  Had 2 doses over the  decades.  No idea where I got the first one from, but the 2nd one was wholly preventable and caused by my cousin NOT cancelling a family get together after one of her kids got the virus.  The little darling vomited in the kitchen sink.  After a hasty "mop up"  food preparation was resumed .  ALL the extended family, including myself got a dose of it - 20 odd people - a 100% infection rate !


It's difficult  to know what end to point in the direction of the "bog".  In the end I  just planted myself permanently on the thing with a bucket on my lap.  It's a draining experience (literately !) but at least it's over in a day or so.


Originally Posted by: Bugglesgate 



I've had it about 5 or 6 times, most of them when my kids were little. That's something they don't tell you about parenting - expect to get ill a lot.


The worst time was when we were on holiday in the middle of nowhere in county Kerry. Why we chose to go there with a 6 month old baby I don't know! A brilliant place but the memory is tainted somewhat...

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