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Gandalf The White
16 February 2020 19:26:33


 


No they are not.


CO2 emission have dropped 9% since 2005, according to EPA data.


In fact, data from the Environmental Protection Agency show that, from 1995-2015, levels of every air pollutant it monitors saw steady declines, to the point where they are at or below national standards.


Carbon monoxide levels plunged 72% over those years; nitrogen dioxide fell 45%; ozone, 24%; soot, 37%; sulfur dioxide, 73%; and lead declined 93%.


The sharp reduction in sulfur dioxide emissions "significantly reduced damage to water quality in lakes and streams, and improved the health of ecosystems and forests," according to the EPA.


Again the air is cleaner. Only three days ago scientists/so called experts have said books would have to be re-written because their theory that worlds increase mass on impacts was in fact wrong.


Do have an open mind what we are being fed could be a great lie for commercial reasons. 


 


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


You appear to have misunderstood.


Emissions may have fallen but CO2 in the atmosphere is still increasing; those are two fundamentally different points. We are about to pass 420ppm, from a base of 280 pre-Industrial Revolution: a level not see for several hundred thousand years.


Our emissions are declining partly because we have shifted a chunk of manufacturing out of the UK.  We have made progress with renewable sources for electricity generation but that's pretty much it.


The air is certainly not cleaner in city centres.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Gandalf The White
16 February 2020 19:32:19


 


What about late Feb 2018, plus the winter of 2009/10 and December 2010?


Notable cold spells have become rarer in recent times for sure, but given the right kind of pressure set-up in place, they can still and do happen, as we saw only a couple of years ago.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


But it is clear from the  records that temperatures are rising so synoptic patterns need to be that much more favourable, to compensate for the higher temperatures. Inevitably the bar will continue to be raised and the chance of lowland snow in the south will continue to diminish.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Brian Gaze
16 February 2020 19:42:00


 


But it is clear from the  records that temperatures are rising so synoptic patterns need to be that much more favourable, to compensate for the higher temperatures. Inevitably the bar will continue to be raised and the chance of lowland snow in the south will continue to diminish.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


The bullseye is getting smaller. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
tallyho_83
16 February 2020 19:42:47


 


What about late Feb 2018, plus the winter of 2009/10 and December 2010?


Notable cold spells have become rarer in recent times for sure, but given the right kind of pressure set-up in place, they can still and do happen, as we saw only a couple of years ago.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Having said that Baghdad, Iran...had a covering of snow. So why are they getting snow then...?🤔


https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictures/pictures-rare-snowfall-carpets-iraq-200211083835781.html


 


 


 


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
16 February 2020 19:44:34


 


No they are not.


CO2 emission have dropped 9% since 2005, according to EPA data.


 


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


EPA figures may be for USA only? 


These sources show a slowing down but not a decrease for CO2 - other pollutants may have gone down- and the CO2 increase referred to in the first link ascribes this to China


https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-global-fossil-fuel-emissions-up-zero-point-six-per-cent-in-2019-due-to-china


https://earthsky.org/earth/atmospheric-co2-record-high-may-2019


And having said that, this is the model output thread, not a climate change one, and any more posts straying away from the title towards climate change will get deleted plus the current ones for good measure


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
David M Porter
16 February 2020 19:50:18


 


But it is clear from the  records that temperatures are rising so synoptic patterns need to be that much more favourable, to compensate for the higher temperatures. Inevitably the bar will continue to be raised and the chance of lowland snow in the south will continue to diminish.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


The telling time for me will be when the AMO switches from its current positive phase to a negative one, which I believe from what I have read elsewhere on the internet, it is predicted to do within the next decade or so. There is no doubt there has been an uptick in warming around the world (many new warm temperature records here in the UK have been set since the end start of the new century, for example) since the current positive phase began in the mid-late 1990s so we shall see what happens once it goes negative again.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
16 February 2020 19:58:27


 


Having said that Baghdad, Iran...had a covering of snow. So why are they getting snow then...?🤔


https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictures/pictures-rare-snowfall-carpets-iraq-200211083835781.html


 


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


Because they are not sitting on the edge of an increasingly warm bath (aka The Atlantic Ocean).


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Gandalf The White
16 February 2020 20:18:44


 


The telling time for me will be when the AMO switches from its current positive phase to a negative one, which I believe from what I have read elsewhere on the internet, it is predicted to do within the next decade or so. There is no doubt there has been an uptick in warming around the world (many new warm temperature records here in the UK have been set since the end start of the new century, for example) since the current positive phase began in the mid-late 1990s so we shall see what happens once it goes negative again.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


The extent of the effect of the AMO is still unclear and, at best, offers only a possible temporary interruption to the warming trend, which was discernible before 1995.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


some faraway beach
16 February 2020 21:50:05

Down this way, has there ever been a decade of winters as brilliant as the one just gone? So many episodes of deep, lasting snow: Jan 2010, the all-time record breaker of Dec 2010, then a gap (this is the balmy West Country, after all) until, boom! 1 March 2018, 19 March 2018 and 1 Feb 2019. 


Yes, they were all rubbish in model-output land, where everyone is fixated on the breakdown at day 10. But, speaking as a sledge-owner, I've been having more fun and spills now I'm in my fifties than I ever had as a kid.


Might get some this year too. There's some amplification finally showing at the end of tonight's ECM. Getting to the time of year where the polar vortex naturally breaks up, I guess:



 


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
LeedsLad123
16 February 2020 23:01:37

I’m 32 so the 2010s were snowier than the two other decades I have any memories of (90s and 00s), but that’s not really saying much.


On the other hand, no winter in the 90s and 00s were as snowless as 2013/14, or 2018/19, or indeed 2019/2020. Even in a very poor winter you could normally guarantee some accumulation at some point, but not this winter or last. And this is coming from one of England’s snowier areas.


Whitkirk, Leeds - 85m ASL.
fairweather
17 February 2020 00:01:06


 


No they are not.


CO2 emission have dropped 9% since 2005, according to EPA data.


In fact, data from the Environmental Protection Agency show that, from 1995-2015, levels of every air pollutant it monitors saw steady declines, to the point where they are at or below national standards.


Carbon monoxide levels plunged 72% over those years; nitrogen dioxide fell 45%; ozone, 24%; soot, 37%; sulfur dioxide, 73%; and lead declined 93%.


The sharp reduction in sulfur dioxide emissions "significantly reduced damage to water quality in lakes and streams, and improved the health of ecosystems and forests," according to the EPA.


Again the air is cleaner. Only three days ago scientists/so called experts have said books would have to be re-written because their theory that worlds increase mass on impacts was in fact wrong.


Do have an open mind what we are being fed could be a great lie for commercial reasons. 


 


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


I'm afraid you lost it on me when you said "so called experts". A genuine expert is an expert. At least their views are more likely to be meaningful than any old Joe. I mean you wouldn't prefer a bloke down the pub to do your brain surgery than a "so called suegeon" surely?


S.Essex, 42m ASL
fairweather
17 February 2020 00:06:59


 


What about late Feb 2018, plus the winter of 2009/10 and December 2010?


Notable cold spells have become rarer in recent times for sure, but given the right kind of pressure set-up in place, they can still and do happen, as we saw only a couple of years ago.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


In some parts of the South, yes, but just the one, two at a stretch here . If you lived in Essex and you were 10 years old you would probably never had been sledging. There is not a 70 year old i know that won't tell you we get far, far less snow than we used to. But yes, it is certainly still possible, just more unlikely.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
fairweather
17 February 2020 00:08:04


 


The bullseye is getting smaller. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Exactly !


S.Essex, 42m ASL
fairweather
17 February 2020 00:10:16


 


Having said that Baghdad, Iran...had a covering of snow. So why are they getting snow then...?🤔


https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictures/pictures-rare-snowfall-carpets-iraq-200211083835781.html 


 

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


Because they are not a maritime climate and have always had more winter snow than here.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
fairweather
17 February 2020 00:36:33


Down this way, has there ever been a decade of winters as brilliant as the one just gone? So many episodes of deep, lasting snow: Jan 2010, the all-time record breaker of Dec 2010, then a gap (this is the balmy West Country, after all) until, boom! 1 March 2018, 19 March 2018 and 1 Feb 2019. 


Originally Posted by: some faraway beach 


 


I think you may have a slight point for the mid SW especially East Wales, Shropshire, Gloucestershire and those areas. There have been a number of deep falls but there were none in East Anglia of any note in that decade. Even 2010 was not much for deep snow. The beast was cold for a week or so but again no real depth here. In the past, especially if you look at climate and Geography books of the 60's and 70's you will see that places in  the SW were generally characterised  as mild and wet and East Anglia as more continental and colder with places like Norwich being high up on the snow cities. Not any more.


I know I bang on about this ad nauseam but it is impossible to understand how pathetic it has been unless you bother to read the work of Bonacina and see the talk of "Jan, severe spell, 11-14th Jan., general heavy snow in east. 18ins Southend, 20ins Cornwall. Severe drifting in parts of SE, 25ft in places." 25ft drifts and that wasn't 62-63 when of course there were massive drifts on Dartmoor and the south. 1977 -87 was the snowiest spell of snowy winters in my lifetime although of course none compared with 62-3. It is just the difference in the sheer depth of transient snowfalls in average years back then. Look at the number of "18 inches in Southend" type comments crop up around the Country pre 1990. Plus the number of widespread and general snow Countrywide reports. it's always localised in recent years.


 


 


S.Essex, 42m ASL
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
17 February 2020 07:18:09

The Jetstream won't leave us alone and produces 200+mph streaks to coincide with each of the next two weekends. No prospect of let-up until the beginning of March.


GFS has westerly zonal stuff with LP centres in the flow 24th and 27th Feb and no doubt minor troughs coming along from time to time e.g. fAX on Thu 20th; a proper centre of 1035Mb HP as a tease on Wed 4th. ECM has a deeper LP on Tue 23rd Feb crossing N England.


GEFS temps up and down and not much consistency especially after 25th Feb but mean near normal. If anything cool at first and mild for a while until the 25th but generally cooler further N with decent snow row figures for Scotland. -dryish in the S, wetter in the NW cf http://www.wxmaps.org/pix/prec4 


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
sunny coast
17 February 2020 07:43:22


Down this way, has there ever been a decade of winters as brilliant as the one just gone? So many episodes of deep, lasting snow: Jan 2010, the all-time record breaker of Dec 2010, then a gap (this is the balmy West Country, after all) until, boom! 1 March 2018, 19 March 2018 and 1 Feb 2019. 


Yes, they were all rubbish in model-output land, where everyone is fixated on the breakdown at day 10. But, speaking as a sledge-owner, I've been having more fun and spills now I'm in my fifties than I ever had as a kid.


Might get some this year too. There's some amplification finally showing at the end of tonight's ECM. Getting to the time of year where the polar vortex naturally breaks up, I guess:



 


Originally Posted by: some faraway beach 

  Great South West blizzard Feb 1978  and great blizzard of Jan 1982 

RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
17 February 2020 08:52:18

That's a lot of rain/snow for the western highlands. Much drier in the south and east.



Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
David M Porter
17 February 2020 09:14:41

No real respite in the unsettled weather anytime soon is being suggested by the models this morning.


Brian has mentioned on a number of occasions in this thread about the chances of this winter falling into the top 10 mildest on record in this country. Given how much rain there has been, especially in the past week or so, I reckon there must now be as good a chance of it becoming one of the top 10 wettest on record, at least for some parts of the country.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Phil G
17 February 2020 11:09:17


 


The bullseye is getting smaller. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Think it was you Brian that made the observation that direct Arctic northerlies don't even deliver for us down here nowadays.


The atmosphere remains too mobile. Not even a whiff of a Scandi high and any suggestion of one this winter has only lasted a day in the outer reaches of FI.


'Funny' how when I joined this forum some time back I would have leapt at the chance of sledging. Now as I near my sixties that same prospect does not have the same reaction. After all these years of chasing holy grails, time is catching up. I'd be more likely to break a hip nowadays, silly old fool!

doctormog
17 February 2020 11:17:41
Whether direct Arctic northerlies deliver or not is one point but another equally puzzling one is why have we not had any for a very long time. There seems to be have been no shortage of westerlies (which is unsurprising) and even a couple of beastly things but the Arctic northerly seems to have become extinct. For that reason there has been precious little snow here for the past decade. Staying on topic and based on the recent model output that does not look like changing imminently.
Saint Snow
17 February 2020 12:04:37


 


I'm afraid you lost it on me when you said "so called experts". A genuine expert is an expert. At least their views are more likely to be meaningful than any old Joe. I mean you wouldn't prefer a bloke down the pub to do your brain surgery than a "so called suegeon" surely?


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


 


I think we've all had enough of experts.


 




Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Arbroath 1320
17 February 2020 13:13:23

Whether direct Arctic northerlies deliver or not is one point but another equally puzzling one is why have we not had any for a very long time. There seems to be have been no shortage of westerlies (which is unsurprising) and even a couple of beastly things but the Arctic northerly seems to have become extinct. For that reason there has been precious little snow here for the past decade. Staying on topic and based on the recent model output that does not look like changing imminently.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Very true.


Has to be a lot to do with the dominance of Winter high pressure systems over the Azores and Europe for the last decade. Atlantic lows are continually deflected in a NE trajectory over the UK so no chance of following arctic blasts. There has also been a scarcity of mid Atlantic ridges over the last decade and this Winter they have been non-existant.


 


 


GGTTH
JACKO4EVER
17 February 2020 19:31:05
Looking like further rainfall this week will cause trouble with flooding, and to be honest with a general westerly flow this could carry on for some time yet.
David M Porter
17 February 2020 20:07:31

Looking like further rainfall this week will cause trouble with flooding, and to be honest with a general westerly flow this could carry on for some time yet.

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


I think you may be able to add "2019-20- Another year without a winter" and "February 2020- Floodfest Horror" to your list of recollections in your signature, Jacko.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022

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