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Maunder Minimum
26 February 2020 10:56:08


Given your 'rainbows and unicorns' idiocy around Brexit, I should have guessed you live here:


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Not relevant to this thread, but Brexit happens to be something both you and Beast voted for in 2016.


New world order coming.
The Beast from the East
26 February 2020 11:00:39


 


Not relevant to this thread, but Brexit happens to be something both you and Beast voted for in 2016.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


True, but I was suffering from a virus called nationalism


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
xioni2
26 February 2020 11:05:39


 True, but I was suffering from a virus called nationalism


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


How were you cured? Antiviral treatment, psychotherapy or electroshock?


 

The Beast from the East
26 February 2020 11:09:30


 


How were you cured? Antiviral treatment, psychotherapy or electroshock?


 


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


I came off Facebook and joined Twitter


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Maunder Minimum
26 February 2020 11:16:40

I thought Iran had ruled out quarantine for cities or regions, but the following is being reported by the WSJ:


"...


About 1,000 other people with coronavirus-like symptoms are being examined, Iranian health officials said Monday.


Iranian officials have asked people not to leave Qom, one of the country’s main pilgrimage sites about 75 miles south of the country’s capital, which the health ministry said has reported the highest number of confirmed infections.


— Aresu Eqbali and Sune Engel Rasmussen"


New world order coming.
xioni2
26 February 2020 11:20:38


About 1,000 other people with coronavirus-like symptoms are being examined, Iranian health officials said Monday.


Iranian officials have asked people not to leave Qom, one of the country’s main pilgrimage sites about 75 miles south of the country’s capital, which the health ministry said has reported the highest number of confirmed infections.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


They should issue a fatwa and start executing them like they do with homosexuals. 

Essan
26 February 2020 11:26:17


 But if you are a low paid worker with no rights and no sick pay, and the Govt tells you to stay at home, what are you going to do? Get a loan to pay the bills?, send your daughter out to work the streets?


This is the reality of Tory rule, but yes, the morons voted for this, so feck em!


 

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 



Or self-employed, as millions of the lowest paid workers, like shopkeepers, farmers and other small business owners, are.   Of course, I appreciate some would rather all shops, farms and businesses were run by the collective.  Which would solve that issue.  


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
xioni2
26 February 2020 11:50:12

First infection in Greece, a 38 year old woman who had travelled to north Italy. She had no symptoms at all.

Darren S
26 February 2020 12:00:59


First infection in Greece, a 38 year old woman who had travelled to north Italy. She had no symptoms at all.


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


I wonder why she was tested? The advice here is only to contact the NHS if you have any symptoms, unless you had been in the 11 locked down towns (none of which are anywhere near ski resorts). So many were skiing in Italy last week, my daughter's best friend and her parents included, but they are well and therefore not intending to be tested.


EDIT: She had mild symptoms according to the BBC.


Darren
Crowthorne, Berks (87m asl)
South Berks Winter Snow Depth Totals:
2023/24 0 cm; 2022/23 7 cm; 2021/22 1 cm; 2020/21 13 cm; 2019/20 0 cm; 2018/19 14 cm; 2017/18 23 cm; 2016/17 0 cm; 2015/16 0.5 cm; 2014/15 3.5 cm; 2013/14 0 cm; 2012/13 22 cm; 2011/12 7 cm; 2010/11 6 cm; 2009/10 51 cm
xioni2
26 February 2020 12:03:55


 I wonder why she was tested? The advice here is only to contact the NHS if you have any symptoms, unless you had been in the 11 locked down towns (none of which are anywhere near ski resorts). So many were skiing in Italy last week, my daughter's best friend and her parents included, but they are well and therefore not intending to be tested.


Originally Posted by: Darren S 


My understanding is that she voluntarily asked to be tested because she had been in northern Italy last week, I could be wrong though.

Brian Gaze
26 February 2020 12:04:46

Just got back from the gym. Definitely a change of mood. People are using the sanitiser gel frequently. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
xioni2
26 February 2020 12:08:35


Just got back from the gym. Definitely a change of mood. People are using the sanitiser gel frequently. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


One would hope that slightly better hygiene in the long run might be a good outcome from this.  

xioni2
26 February 2020 12:13:39

Pretty sensible stuff from the WHO director:


"The increase in cases outside China has prompted some media and politicians to push for a pandemic to be declared. We should not be too eager to declare a pandemic without a careful and clear-minded analysis of the facts. WHO has already declared a public health emergency of international concern – our highest level of alarm.


Using the word pandemic carelessly has no tangible benefit, but it does have significant risk in terms of amplifying unnecessary and unjustified fear and stigma, and paralyzing systems. It may also signal that we can no longer contain the virus, which is not true. We are in a fight that can be won if we do the right things."

Quantum
26 February 2020 12:14:46


The saliva test for COVID-19 is itself suspect - it only works if there is sufficient virus in the saliva to register -a blood test would be far more accurate, but that is more invasive and it takes longer to get the result at additional cost. Reason I am highlighting this is the Japanese experience:


"...


Japan's health minister says dozens of passengers who were allowed off a coronavirus-stricken cruise ship have developed symptoms - including fever - and will be asked to take tests for the virus.


The government has contacted 813 former passengers of the Diamond Princess. Around 970 were allowed off the boat last week after testing negative for the virus, but several have subsequently been found to be carrying the disease.


..."


So people let out of quarantine on the basis that they were virus free, when clearly a substantial proportion were not. Three new cases reported from Thailand today are all people who recently visited Japan. Point is that the authorities may feel they have the situation under control, when they haven't, both because of asymptomatic cases and because the saliva test itself produces false negatives.


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


A counterpoint though is that there may be people that do have the virus but can't transmit it. I suspect anyone with a positive saliva test is far more likely to transmit than someone who tests negitive but still has the virus at a low level.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
xioni2
26 February 2020 12:17:41

Unfortunately the French man who died had not travelled to either China or Italy.

Quantum
26 February 2020 12:20:12

One thing I'm interested in seeing a a resolved CFR for cases in countries outside of China (that we can trust, so not Iran for example). Currently resolved CFRs are still very high (33% in SK, 8% in Japan, 86% in Italy) but should more quickly converge than a naive CFR. The Resolved CFR for all cases (including China) is holding steady at 9%. This is what the mortality rate might look like if the Chinese data is reliable and there are not a significant amount of mild, undetected cases.


Essentially the naive CFR might be 'accidentally' right because the lag and mild cases cancel out.


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
xioni2
26 February 2020 12:22:43


Essentially the naive CFR might be 'accidentally' right because the lag and mild cases cancel out.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Not so accidental though, there was always a reasonable chance of that happening. Still early days though.

Saint Snow
26 February 2020 12:22:49

Interesting stats from BBC:


 


The current fatality rate is less than 0.5% for people under the age of 50. But it rises to 8% for people in their 70s and 15% for people over 80. Meanwhile, nearly 11% of people with diseases of the heart died when infected. As did 7% of people with diabetes and 6% of people with long-term lung problems. The average for healthy people is 0.9%.



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Quantum
26 February 2020 12:23:09

The diamond princess should also enable us to determine a resolved IFR (i.e taking the mild cases into account). Although I would expect it to be rather higher than the true figure due to the demography of the cruise ship being quite different to the general population.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
26 February 2020 12:24:28


 


Not so accidental though, there was always a reasonable chance of that happening. Still early days though.


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


It did not happen with SARS or MERS. Usually the lag dominates. For these effects to cancel out there needs to be alot of mild undetected cases, which is very concerning in of itself.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
xioni2
26 February 2020 12:28:55


 It did not happen with SARS or MERS. Usually the lag dominates. For these effects to cancel out there needs to be alot of mild undetected cases, which is very concerning in of itself.


 

Originally Posted by: Quantum 


This virus is probably quite different from SARS or MERS though and I made that very point to you a month ago when there was already evidence from China that the majority of cases had only mild symptoms. 

Quantum
26 February 2020 12:31:08

Incidentally the naive CFR is starting to rise now. In the chinese data it's currently at 3.5% rather than 2%. This is not unexpected towards the end of an outbreak.


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
xioni2
26 February 2020 12:32:55

I noticed also that China has started 14-day quarantines for people who have been in infected countries and that the WHO has called for 'all countries to access and use China's expertise'.


Some forum experts though still think that the data from China is dodgy. We'll know I guess by summer.

Quantum
26 February 2020 12:34:49


 


This virus is probably quite different from SARS or MERS though and I made that very point to you a month ago when there was already evidence from China that the majority of cases had only mild symptoms. 


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


One way in which it's different is that there is more lag because of how long it takes to kill you. The resolved CFR will probably end up being something like 7-8% based on the Chinese data which is what we would expect the naive CFR to rapidally rise to. Assuming it's about 8%, that means for every 1 case in China there needs to be 3 undetected mild ones for the true mortality to end up at 2%.


That does not reassure me.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Retron
26 February 2020 12:36:30


Depending on your age it's more accurate to see the fall in the markets as a great opportunity to boost your pension pot, as your monthly contributions will buy more shares. It's only a problem if you're about to retire and haven't taken steps to de-risk.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Exactly! 3% discount on Monday, another 3% or so yesterday and - at the time of writing - just under a percent today. Obviously people aren't going to stop buying deodorant, booze etc in the long term, so those prices will just pop back up once this whole scare is over (I fully expect this new version of flu to go worldwide, then like regular flu it'll cease being newsworthy).


I've been drip-feeding my SIPP this week: £1,000 on Monday, another £800 yesterday and £400 today. I fully expect in 18 years (when I can draw on it), those investments will have done me well!


 


Leysdown, north Kent

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