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Maunder Minimum
Monday, March 23, 2020 10:55:27 AM


 


I assume you know how much major construction goes on throughout London. They have to be transported around to get to their sites. This means using a tube service that has been heavily reduced. They are also not key workers.


They are therefore not able to keep the required distance furthering the spread throughout London.


Building sites must be closed with immediate effect.


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


I disagree - they are key workers. Something needs to be done about how they get to work however. Staggering their start times would help.


 


New world order coming.
xioni2
Monday, March 23, 2020 10:56:33 AM

More irresponsibility from both some people and the govt:


Parents are being told to keep their children at home unless "absolutely necessary, as schools across the UK close to most pupils.


The list of key workers includes religious staff and public service journalists


 


 

RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
Monday, March 23, 2020 10:57:12 AM


Here is the official approach from Israel - isolate the vulnerable whilst achieving herd immunity:



Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Whether the approach is right or wrong two things stand out:


1) It is the Minister of Defence that is delivering the message


2) It is wonderfully clear and unambiguous.


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
nouska
Monday, March 23, 2020 10:58:27 AM

Good morning from a very rural France...


First visit to the local open air market since lock down.


Gendarme road block at both ends of village - checking attestations prior to entry - no papers, GO HOME!!


Public health officials directing people and everyone in masks and gloves for serving - no customer is allowed to touch any produce - such an anathema for a population who select by touch and smell.


Psychology 101 ..... If a service is allowed to open, why would you not go and use the facility. 


A super article from an Australian doctor on why the mixed message are not getting through.


(...)


The brief answer, IMHO, is that we have a serious clash of two vastly different medical cultures. Neither culture should see the other as the enemy when frustration boils up – the enemy is always the virus.

The front line culture is modern, highly networked, often social media savvy, collaborative, a diverse multidisciplinary team. This team knows the best results come from brainstorming problems with a hive mind of connections, often online and involving international experience, respecting all inputs, rapidly iterating them and distributing resource and decision making. All members are equal in calling out issues as they see them, and contribute ideas to solving complex problems. Evidence base is the currency for respect here.


Pandemic central command culture on the other hand is paternalistic. It operates by command via multilayered bureaucratic structures. What it says goes and cannot be questioned as there is no process for that. Evidence is not required, as the decisions have authority. Information goes up through filters, is processed by distant experts, and decisions come back down through filters.


An excellent example of how this might look is the stockpiling. People on the ground get frightened because they receive news from many sources. The politicians, who they do not normally ever engage with, tell them to “just stop it”. The people do not listen because they do not respond to paternalism or respect that type of management. The politicians then start to look like frustrated Dads whose kids won’t listen to them any more. The people are used to evaluating evidence for themselves and drawing their own conclusion. A better way to settle them would be to validate and empathise with their concern, and assuage their fear by guaranteeing food supply.


(...)


Solutions

Command and control was rejected in modern clinical medical practice long ago.


Far better to be transparent now about all the facts, all the assumptions, involve working front line staff in a collaborative decision making process, and get the politicians out of the room. The decision makers should have professionally moderated online access in Whatsapp to every doctor, subdivided into appropriate groups to provide real feedback.
Then listen to the front line in an iterative way and adjust. Make the comms tight and two way. This is how the Hong Kong civil resistance organised itself from the ground up with no commanders.

Distribute resources and decision making direct to front line, and bypass the command line which is incredibly inefficient. Allow local innovators to use their incredible brains to work out problems central command has not even contemplated. They will then spread word as to what works online. They are doing this already but if unfettered in decision making, they could save many lives.


Doctors on the front line can contribute also by being respectful to the central command, and politicians, it is not their fault that they have a different culture at this time. It is a problem of structure not personal failing. Avoiding conflating the people with the problem. Displaying empathy, understanding and willingness to collaborate from both sides can take us forward together over the next few weeks. And hopefully save some lives.


 


https://drajm.blog/2020/03/21/op-ed-210320/


 

westv
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:01:34 AM


 


I disagree - they are key workers. Something needs to be done about how they get to work however. Staggering their start times would help.


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


I don't agree that the workers Heavy Weather refers to are "key". An office block construction might be important in normal times but I don't see any reason why construction can't be put on hold for a time.


At least it will be mild!
Gooner
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:01:37 AM


Spain: New Deaths +462


New Cases: 4500


Spain is now the new Italy. I fear it will be worse


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


I'm still waiting for this big rise in our numbers , just maybe , maybe the UK will avoid what France,Spain,Italy , China and the US are experiencing 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:02:39 AM


 


I don't agree that the workers Heavy Weather refers to are "key". An office block construction might be important in normal times but I don't see any reason why construction can't be put on hold for a time.


Originally Posted by: westv 


Correct , the construction industry isn't critical to life 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Maunder Minimum
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:12:27 AM


 


I don't agree that the workers Heavy Weather refers to are "key". An office block construction might be important in normal times but I don't see any reason why construction can't be put on hold for a time.


Originally Posted by: westv 


Perhaps we should define "key" in that case - some construction will be for medical facilities - clearly key. Plus, now is the ideal time to do all those disruptive road repairs and construction, plus rail maintenance. Those are also key in my mind, since there will never be a better opportunity for infrastructure work.


 


New world order coming.
llamedos
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:16:08 AM

Two exceptionally busy garden centers local to me are closing voluntarily tonight until further notice. People before profits...well done them 


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
westv
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:16:35 AM


 


Perhaps we should define "key" in that case - some construction will be for medical facilities - clearly key. Plus, now is the ideal time to do all those disruptive road repairs and construction, plus rail maintenance. Those are also key in my mind, since there will never be a better opportunity for infrastructure work.


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


None of the half dozen or so construction sites I pass on my normal walk into work in London would be classed as key.


At least it will be mild!
Hungry Tiger
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:27:56 AM


 


I'm still waiting for this big rise in our numbers , just maybe , maybe the UK will avoid what France,Spain,Italy , China and the US are experiencing 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


We hope.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Rob K
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:33:07 AM
My mum (age 70) just shared a picture of her morning post. £100 off a Dignity funeral plan. At least some people are still advertising!
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Justin W
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:35:40 AM

I have a colonoscopy appointment at hospital on Thursday. Had assumed it wasn’t going ahead. Phoned to check to be told that it is going ahead.


Very, very surprised.


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Rob K
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:38:58 AM


 


A friend of mine has just re-emerged onto social media having been self-isolated for 14 days on his own at home. Sounds like he's had it and is now recovering. No test, no special treatment, no record of the case at all in the official figures. Just two weeks of self-isolated misery. He didn't want anyone to know he was ill.


He was one of the most gung-ho of them all before he got it himself - tune changed a bit now though.


Originally Posted by: Ulric 


But what if he didn’t have it but some other disease? We need widespread testing so that people who. Ow have immunity can be recognised. 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
xioni2
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:39:00 AM


I have a colonoscopy appointment at hospital on Thursday. Had assumed it wasn’t going ahead. Phoned to check to be told that it is going ahead.


Very, very surprised.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


Many hospital wards are much more quiet than usual. 

nsrobins
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:40:24 AM


I have a colonoscopy appointment at hospital on Thursday. Had assumed it wasn’t going ahead. Phoned to check to be told that it is going ahead.


Very, very surprised.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


Me too - but go with it. I’m sure the appropriate precautions will be observed.


Taking of colonoscopy - could be worth recommending this to many in this country at the moment to see if there’s a head stuck up there somewhere.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
xioni2
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:41:39 AM


 Taking of colonoscopy - could be worth recommending this to many in this country at the moment to see if there’s a head stuck up there somewhere.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 



Mass colonoscopy will gradually be introduced by the govt. 

Justin W
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:42:21 AM


 


Me too - but go with it. I’m sure the appropriate precautions will be observed.


Taking of colonoscopy - could be worth recommending this to many in this country at the moment to see if there’s a head stuck up there somewhere.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


🤣🤣


I’m hoping this means that they might squeeze in my reversal surgery to put me back in one piece before the full collapse!


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Saint Snow
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:43:09 AM

Nandos and Costa closing outlets completely. 


I expect a flood of other chain restaurants/cafes to follow suit over the next few days.


And this drip-feed is prolonging panic-buying. 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
John Mason
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:46:29 AM


 


Taking of colonoscopy - could be worth recommending this to many in this country at the moment to see if there’s a head stuck up there somewhere.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


 


+100!

llamedos
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:49:52 AM


 


Me too - but go with it. I’m sure the appropriate precautions will be observed.


Taking of colonoscopy - could be worth recommending this to many in this country at the moment to see if there’s a head stuck up there somewhere.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Gavin D
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:52:14 AM
Subway stores will be closing at 5pm tonight in the UK and Ireland until further notice

Brian Gaze
Monday, March 23, 2020 11:57:37 AM

Subway stores will be closing at 5pm tonight in the UK and Ireland until further notice

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


Thank God. That will improve the odour in surrounding areas.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
Monday, March 23, 2020 12:00:06 PM

The propaganda power of the telephoto lens. From the beeb article...



..Goddamit, even the lampposts are disobeying the social distancing rules


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Gooner
Monday, March 23, 2020 12:04:34 PM

To show how we just don't get this at all


There is a track day at Silverstone - nearly 100 are attending 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


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