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warrenb
31 March 2020 09:35:22
At times like these, best not to look too far forward. I am going with the ethos of my time is "Yesterday,Today and Tomorrow", and I suspect this is also the thinking of governments around the world, let's get through this, then deal with the aftermath.
Phil G
31 March 2020 09:37:01


I think one thing all of us here can agree on, regardless of what we think of the way our government and those in other countries responded to the coming of this pandemic, is that governments and people generally around the world must do everything they can in years to come to ensure that a disease pandemic such as this can never, ever happen again.


I know that we have we have no more right to tell the Chinese how to run their country any more than they have any right to tell us how to run the UK. That said, one way I believe that action can be taken against them is in the world of international trade and business. My own view is that the west has made a mistake in allowing so much manufacturing et al to be transferred to that country and allowing China to become as powerful as it has become, even though it is still considered to be a developing country.


If I was a person who was doing business of any description in China on a regular basis, my faith in the authorities in that country to look after people's best interests and their well-being would now have been destroyed for ever.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Yes David you would have thought in the post-morteum to events and actions taken, the world should have learned an awful lot from this. I suppose a little crumb is that we weren't face with a disease with a 50% death rate or more, this time.


As regards to the interaction and digestion of certain animals which pose us the greatest risk, I think this will be clamped down but not eradicated completely. In time as the world forgets, these markets will grow again, until the next time!


There needs to much clearer action plan in future, and a process where areas/countries/borders are shut down immediately. It seems however that the chinese are on holiday everywhere all the time with the sheer numbers of them, so containing still won't be an easy process.


I don't think many will be happy however until there are big steps taken as a result of this. The Chinese need to be held to account. We are all having to adapt. They will also have to adapt and move away from practises they have performed in the past. The only way for them to do this is to enforce the death penalty as a deterrent. Well, the impact as a result from their practises is like murder.

Retron
31 March 2020 09:38:14


Difficult to forecast, but I would anticipate that the charter flights jetting off to summer sun and winter ski resorts will be the worst affected going forward. I would imagine that business travel will pick up again first, which would suit carriers like British Airways and Lufthansa at the expense of low cost airlines.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Yup - I'd be amazed if BA were to disappear in the next year, along with the other IAG members (Iberia, Aer Lingus). The likes of American Airlines will still be around too.


(For BA especially, it's an interesting one - they have dozens of old 747s and 777s, long since paid off, so that portion of the fleet is less of an issue. For those airlines with much newer fleets, or who lease their planes, a painful time lies ahead)


 


Leysdown, north Kent
xioni2
31 March 2020 09:44:44


Difficult to forecast, but I would anticipate that the charter flights jetting off to summer sun and winter ski resorts will be the worst affected going forward. I would imagine that business travel will pick up again first, which would suit carriers like British Airways and Lufthansa at the expense of low cost airlines.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


On the other hand, I think by summer 2021 everything will be back to normal.

springsunshine
31 March 2020 09:45:09


 


I'm sure you are familiar with this quote Springsunshine. I feel really sorry for you in your predicament.


She said: “As a landlord, we are open to talking to tenants about issues they face in making their rental payments. In the current circumstances we are able to offer tenants the option to pay rent on a monthly basis instead of a quarterly one.” 


It's almost a kind of let them eat cake sort of thinking.


https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/18338874.bcp-council-warns-seafront-businesses-pay-rent-despite-coronavirus/


Which of course is not a lot of good if you are forced to close. I did wonder when I read this story if Cllr Vikki Slade really understands the situation.


Originally Posted by: NMA 


Yes I read this story and the BCP council insisting rents are paid in full when there is going to be no income is a disgrace! BCP are in clous cukoo land on this and many other things.Iam also a commercial property landlord and have given my tenants an 8 month rent reduction,it makes no sense to see your tenants go to the wall.


As an aside I would imagine and hope the Bournemouth air festival gets cancelled this year.

JHutch
31 March 2020 09:46:29


Remarkable economic recovery in China



Originally Posted by: xioni2 


I don't think that is what the graph shows though? It just shows whether people think things are getting better or worse than the last month, see below tweet and definition. Not sure if showing a line graph like that is the best way to display this data (not sure what else is though, maybe some kind of cumulative graph?)


https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pmi.asp


 


 



Maunder Minimum
31 March 2020 09:47:42


 


On the other hand, I think by summer 2021 everything will be back to normal.


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


Very optimistic of you. I doubt that everything will be back to the old normal ever. When it comes to package holidays, it will more likely be 2022 before things start to pick up in my view.


Don't forget that to prevent further waves of this virus, will require travel restrictions to be in place until a proven mass vaccination campaign can be implemented, or alternatively, herd immunity has become widespread and the virus attack has been blunted by that means.


 


New world order coming.
Northern Sky
31 March 2020 09:48:10


 


I agree with the aspiration but it's simply not possible to prevent a future pandemic. We have seen enough in the last half century and, if anything, they are becoming more frequent.


Viruses are widespread in wild animals, particularly bats, monkeys and birds. They cannot be eradicated from their hosts and often don't cause disease or serious disease in their natural hosts. 


With nearly 8 billion humans on the planet and 2.5 billion of those in Africa and China and around half in Asia I'd say the chances of stopping another are close to zero. The best we can hope for is to be prepared and better contain the outbreaks; for that we are only as strong as the weakest link. The current weakest link is China but it could be anywhere across Asia or Africa where there is poverty, poor healthcare systems and people increasingly encroaching into wild areas.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


I'm still not convinced this virus wasn't an accidental escape from a biotech lab. Even if it wasn't it's only a matter of time before some thing does escape with huge consequences. The number of biotech labs, both government and private across the world is huge and regulation is extremely poor in some places. 

Phil G
31 March 2020 09:49:26


Consequences:


There will be massive consolidation in the aviation sector, since it will be depressed for years - people aren't going to start jetting around as soon as restrictions are relaxed - from the BBC:


"Passenger numbers in Germany’s Frankfurt airport - a major international hub - have dropped 90.7%  "


Plus, news from Denmark - the government announced yesterday that the internal lockdown will be relaxed from 12th April, but that external border controls will be maintained. One thing about the Danish Government is that they are playing it by the book so far - close borders, clean up internally and then relax internally, whilst keeping borders locked down.


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


On the contrary, I think once we are more or less out of the woods and areas considered 'safe', I reckon there will be untold demand for flights.


As well as people finding it difficult to survive, on the flipside there are a lot of people on final salary schemes, good pensions etc who aren't spending anything now. They are saving tens of thousands because of this. Once we start to emerge from this hibernation, there will be a spending spree but demand will outstrip supply in many areas, not just aviation as many businesses would have closed, or take many months to come back up to speed. We need to be able to bounce out of the starting blocks once this is done.


I remember after the financial crisis, its not great now but there was a problem with new builds straight after as brick making companies had closed or halted production. Houses could not be built as there were no materials and some builders had to get things like bricks from overseas.


It could be to a country's advantage to be able to respond quickly once the people emerge again. They could be doing a lot of overseas businesses too if there are shortfalls there. With Brexit, this country should also see this as an opportunity, plan for the future.


If we close up completely or turn the tap off too much, our recovery economically will take many years longer.

xioni2
31 March 2020 09:49:39


Religious fundamentalists self select for the virus it would appear  - just been talking to an Israeli colleague on Zoom and there is a massive hotspot for the virus in Tel Aviv - a region called Bnei Brak - in this region, the majority test positive for the virus. This region is populated by religious fundamentalists and they take no notice of any rules on social distancing - same as for any religious nutter - this is "God's/Allah's/Jehovah's will".


Fundamentalists are crazy people who deny science and think they are above natural laws. The other day on BBC news they showed a packed Russian Orthodox church in Moscow - they asked a woman why she was not self isolating and she replied "this is a Holy place, you cannot catch anything bad in here" - OK missus, so a virus will not enter the house of God? Nuts!


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


I was talking to my sister today and she told me about what happened in Greece earlier this month. The orthodox church there decreed that Eucharist is safe and if people are true believers and they believe that they receive the body and blood of Christ, then they have nothing to worry. On the next day the chief medical officer (a devout Christian himself) closed all churches with immediate effect. A bishop was arrested for not complying.

Brian Gaze
31 March 2020 09:52:48


Plus, news from Denmark - the government announced yesterday that the internal lockdown will be relaxed from 12th April, but that external border controls will be maintained. One thing about the Danish Government is that they are playing it by the book so far - close borders, clean up internally and then relax internally, whilst keeping borders locked down.


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Denmark appears to be about 1 week ahead of the UK. I still expect the UK government to start easing the lockdown at the end of April. It will come sooner than many expect. Whether or not it will be successful is a different question.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
xioni2
31 March 2020 10:00:17


 Very optimistic of you. I doubt that everything will be back to the old normal ever. When it comes to package holidays, it will more likely be 2022 before things start to pick up in my view.


Don't forget that to prevent further waves of this virus, will require travel restrictions to be in place until a proven mass vaccination campaign can be implemented, or alternatively, herd immunity has become widespread and the virus attack has been blunted by that means.


 

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


We'll see, nobody knows as you say. It's the not the same kind of event, but I remember reading so many forecasts and theories of how the world would change after 9/11, most of them were completely wrong. 


As for the vaccine, I think we'll have started mass vaccination already by the end of the year. The urgency and the incentives are too great.

xioni2
31 March 2020 10:02:16


 I don't think that is what the graph shows though? It just shows whether people think things are getting better or worse than the last month, see below tweet and definition. Not sure if showing a line graph like that is the best way to display this data (not sure what else is though, maybe some kind of cumulative graph?)


https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pmi.asp


 

Originally Posted by: JHutch 


Yes, you are right.


JHutch
31 March 2020 10:05:48


 


Yes, you are right.



Originally Posted by: xioni2 


Well the trade guy i follow on twitter was right, i hadnt got a clue until he explained it!

xioni2
31 March 2020 10:13:36

The Swedish govt is expecting a recession of 4% in 2020 with unemployment rising to 9%. I think they are being too optimistic!

Maunder Minimum
31 March 2020 10:13:42


 


We'll see, nobody knows as you say. It's the not the same kind of event, but I remember reading so many forecasts and theories of how the world would change after 9/11, most of them were completely wrong. 


As for the vaccine, I think we'll have started mass vaccination already by the end of the year. The urgency and the incentives are too great.


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


Maybe. But this is a corona virus - if it was that easy, we would have a cure for the common cold by now. It also depends on what you mean by "mass vaccination" and where that is first carried out. Billions of doses would be required worldwide.


The good news on the vaccine front, is that laboratories worldwide have been trying to crack the RNA virus nut for several years now - the prize is immense if we could really vaccinate against such viruses.


New world order coming.
Bolty
31 March 2020 10:23:28
I think it's fair to say that March 2020 will go into the history books. Let's see what April brings (nervous laughter)...
Scott
Blackrod, Lancashire (4 miles south of Chorley) at 156m asl.
My weather station 
xioni2
31 March 2020 10:29:18

Updated mortality stats from Italy



westv
31 March 2020 10:31:54


 


Maybe. But this is a corona virus - if it was that easy, we would have a cure for the common cold by now.


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Isn't the reason a cure for the common cold is so difficult is because it has so many variations??


At least it will be mild!
Sevendust
31 March 2020 10:36:26


Isn't the reason a cure for the common cold is so difficult is because it has so many variations??


Originally Posted by: westv 


Speaking to a Chinese colleague this morning, aside from the data issues, those being reported are largely returnees from oversees, most from America. What she did say that treatments being used in the early stages in Wuhan are proving far less effective on these later cases which may lead to the conclusion that the virus is indeed mutating

Gavin D
31 March 2020 10:37:47
Spain have reported 6,461 new cases and 473 new deaths in the 12-hour overnight update


That's a rise in new cases and fall in new deaths when compared to the same 12-hour period to Monday morning


New cases have increased by 1,376 whilst new deaths have fallen by 64
Bolty
31 March 2020 10:38:31


 


Isn't the reason a cure for the common cold is so difficult is because it has so many variations??


Originally Posted by: westv 


It's not so much variations, more the fact that it mutates too rapidly for a vaccine to be effective. It's the same with the flu and why you need a yearly vaccine for that.


If COVID-19 is found to mutate as rapidly as the flu does then I'd imagine it's here to stay...


Scott
Blackrod, Lancashire (4 miles south of Chorley) at 156m asl.
My weather station 
xioni2
31 March 2020 10:40:06


 If COVID-19 is found to mutate as rapidly as the flu does then I'd imagine it's here to stay...


Originally Posted by: Bolty 


I've read several times (from scientific sources) that this virus is relatively stable so far, which should help with the development of a suitable vaccine.

Maunder Minimum
31 March 2020 10:41:48


 


Isn't the reason a cure for the common cold is so difficult is because it has so many variations??


Originally Posted by: westv 


We can be fairly optimistic that an effective vaccine will be developed - but it is very unlikely to hit the mass market in time for the 2021 holiday season.


Here is a recent and realistic article on the topic:


http://www.rfi.fr/en/science-and-technology/20200307-coronavirus-why-vaccine-will-take-least-12-months


 


New world order coming.
Bolty
31 March 2020 10:42:39


 


I've read several times (from scientific sources) that this virus is relatively stable so far, which should help with the development of a suitable vaccine.


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


Good news then!


Scott
Blackrod, Lancashire (4 miles south of Chorley) at 156m asl.
My weather station 

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