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Brian Gaze
15 April 2020 08:02:50


 


Perhaps, but at least they understand the science at a significantly deeper level.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


 As world leaders in vaccine development and manufacture I am sure GlaxoSmithKline and Sanofi understand the science at least as well. They also have extensive experience of doing this so will know far more about the real world problems that may be encountered even when a candidate shows promise. I am happy to defer to their judgement. If a small start-up or academic team come up with an effective vaccine much sooner it will be a bonus.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Justin W
15 April 2020 08:08:38

Coronavirus Survivors Hope for Immunity — The Reality Is More Complicated


But for now, that’s all it is: a hope. That’s because immunity is a particularly complicated question when it comes to coronaviruses, a class of viruses that includes SARS and MERS as well as seasonal coronaviruses that cause illnesses such as the common cold. They are named for the crown-like spiked proteins that allow them to attach to their cellular hosts.


“There is no proof at this point that the development of an antibody response will be protective,” said David Walt, a professor of pathology at Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston. “There is no evidence yet that people can’t be reinfected with the virus.”


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-14/do-coronavirus-survivors-have-immunity-from-reinfection-maybe


 


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Roger Parsons
15 April 2020 08:20:56


Coronavirus Survivors Hope for Immunity — The Reality Is More Complicated


But for now, that’s all it is: a hope. That’s because immunity is a particularly complicated question when it comes to coronaviruses, a class of viruses that includes SARS and MERS as well as seasonal coronaviruses that cause illnesses such as the common cold. They are named for the crown-like spiked proteins that allow them to attach to their cellular hosts.


“There is no proof at this point that the development of an antibody response will be protective,” said David Walt, a professor of pathology at Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston. “There is no evidence yet that people can’t be reinfected with the virus.”


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-14/do-coronavirus-survivors-have-immunity-from-reinfection-maybe


 


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


Very much agree, Justin.


To reiterate:


.....what the "natural history" of this pathogen will be once it reaches an equilibrium remains to be seen. We do not yet know the long term reliability of any immunity resulting from having CO-19. Nor do we know where the virus will be able to "hide out" in the human population or perhaps some reservoir host. We will be ill advised to let up on the present strategies for  reducing transmission before we have something effective in place to protect us, a vaccine or other medical treatment. That will take time and the prospect of a sequence of CO-19 peaks if we relax our present efforts is deeply worrying."


Roger


RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
Retron
15 April 2020 08:21:38


Coronavirus Survivors Hope for Immunity — The Reality Is More Complicated


But for now, that’s all it is: a hope. That’s because immunity is a particularly complicated question when it comes to coronaviruses, a class of viruses that includes SARS and MERS as well as seasonal coronaviruses that cause illnesses such as the common cold. They are named for the crown-like spiked proteins that allow them to attach to their cellular hosts.


“There is no proof at this point that the development of an antibody response will be protective,” said David Walt, a professor of pathology at Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston. “There is no evidence yet that people can’t be reinfected with the virus.”


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-14/do-coronavirus-survivors-have-immunity-from-reinfection-maybe


 


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


Equally well, there's no evidence that you can be reinfected, at least in the timescales since we've known about the virus.


All I can say is the virus would have to be fundementally different to every other type of coronavirus we know about if it weren't possible to become immune to it (at least for a while).


Leysdown, north Kent
Justin W
15 April 2020 08:22:13


 


Equally well, there's no evidence that you can be reinfected, at least in the timescales since we've known about the virus.


All I can say is the virus would have to be fundementally different to every other type of coronavirus we know about if it weren't possible to become immune to it (at least for a while).


Originally Posted by: Retron 


We are immune to the common cold for one to two months.


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
bledur
15 April 2020 08:29:03


 


We are immune to the common cold for one to two months.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


 Shame they shut this place up the road from me . Salisbury Common Cold Unit  They were doing a lot of research and you could go and get paid to catch a cold.


An aerial view of the Common Cold Unit, Salisbury, Wiltshire.

Gavin D
15 April 2020 08:30:22

Ulric
15 April 2020 08:34:54


We are immune to the common cold for one to two months.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


Most colds are caused by Rhinoviruses not Coronaviruses. It's normal for a healthy adult to have two or three colds a year.


To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
Lionel Hutz
15 April 2020 08:35:49


 


We are immune to the common cold for one to two months.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


I may be incorrect in this, but is it not the case that there is no one "common cold" virus - there are many? Hence, we become immune for a good period of time to the particular strain of the common cold that we catch i.e. we will not suffer from that strain for at least a couple of years. However, we can catch one of the many other common cold viruses a month or two later. 


Lionel Hutz
Nr.Waterford , S E Ireland
68m ASL



Retron
15 April 2020 08:41:26


We are immune to the common cold for one to two months.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


Most colds are caused by rhinoviruses, though, and you will be immune only to that strain which you caught.


As for cold coronaviruses, I can't find (with a quick search) how long immunity lasts. For SARS and MERS, though, it's between 18 months and 2 years.


Leysdown, north Kent
David M Porter
15 April 2020 08:47:47


 


We are immune to the common cold for one to two months.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


Back in 2017 I went down with the common cold on no fewer than three occasions; January, March and at the end of October/start of November.


As it happens, I haven't had it once since late 2017.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
doctormog
15 April 2020 08:54:54


 


Back in 2017 I went down with the common cold on no fewer than three occasions; January, March and at the end of October/start of November.


As it happens, I haven't had it once since late 2017.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


This also highlights the somewhat random nature of viruses and their spread. You may have had immunity or you may have had luck.


springsunshine
15 April 2020 08:57:21


This is an interesting read and explains why a lifting of lockdowns could not ends well:


https://centerforinquiry.org/blog/its-the-math-stupid/


 


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


Basically that is saying whatever we do other than the 2 options given means we are royally screwed.

The Beast from the East
15 April 2020 08:59:49


In reply and at the risk of sounding void of compassion to all but the scientific minded.  Every species on this planet has at some time had its numbers culled when they’ve become unsustainable. We are no different! 


Originally Posted by: Caz 


Agree! But I seem to get attacked and suspended when I say this! 


I also agree with Darren's early morning post. We have to live with this for years and accept a certain number of weekly deaths until it runs through the whole population eventually. That will happen before a vaccine is ready for mass distribution


And the vaccine may not be that effective and may need to be changed every year like the flu vaccine


 


 


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
15 April 2020 09:03:17


 


This also highlights the somewhat random nature of viruses and their spread. You may have had immunity or you may have had luck.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


If often get a cold when I am tired, stressed or have had little sleep for a few days.


Is this because  my immune system is weak and vulnerable to a new virus, or a "dormant" virus in my body that reactivates?


 


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
15 April 2020 09:05:41


 


Coronavirus: Fear of reinfection grows after 124 South Koreans test positive for second time


 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


I thought this was debunked by NickR?


Oversensitivity of testing?


 


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President
doctormog
15 April 2020 09:06:48


 


If often get a cold when I am tired, stressed or have had little sleep for a few days.


Is this because  my immune system is weak and vulnerable to a new virus, or a "dormant" virus in my body that reactivates?


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


It’s a good question and I would say the majority of the time it is the former. I don’t think that any cold viruses reactivate as such rather than your immunity to a specific virus fades over time (so reinfection rather than reactivation) and in addition you get viruses that your immune system has not encountered before.


Edit: As for Covid-19 reinfection, I think the body of evidence (and length of time) is too small to come to any valid conclusion. We will no doubt find out in the coming months and years.


The Beast from the East
15 April 2020 09:09:11


 


That is true, Caz, and in a paradoxical way our predators, parasites and pathogens are, in a terrible and relentless fashion, our best allies. They drive co-evolution and in many ways help to achieve an ecological homeostasis. "Consumers" would not benefit from wiping out their own food sources or means of reproduction and distribution, but we are in a kind of "biological arms race". This takes nothing away from the fear and grief caused by our common danger and individual loss - but it is a natural process outside our take on ethics or compassion. No doubt some readers will have reflected on the question of how much our way of life has contributed to our apparent vulnerability as a species to a pandemic.


Roger


Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons 


I strongly believe that the human population will always be regulated naturally as Malthus said. Either by war, famine or disease


Or the planet will cull us with climate change!


 


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President
Phil G
15 April 2020 09:14:28


 


It’s a good question and I would say the majority of the time it is the former. I don’t think that any cold viruses reactivate as such rather than your immunity to a specific virus fades over time (so reinfection rather than reactivation) and in addition you get viruses that your immune system has not encountered before.


Edit: As for Covid-19 reinfection, I think the body of evidence (and length of time) is too small to come to any valid conclusion. We will no doubt find out in the coming months and years.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


 


Just made me think when most get a cold, one cold they receive is not like the next and the symptons often differ i.e. more of a sore throat, headache, phlegm. Some of these can be very mild but hit you with a chest infection later on as well. Whether the differences are the strains, your make up, or there are other factors at work.

The Beast from the East
15 April 2020 09:16:07


 


 


More immediately back on the streets. a couple of men in Brighton are posing as plain-clothes polices and levying 'fines' for ASB, demanding cash on the spot. The police, of course, would just hand over a notice to pay later e.g. through a bank, and never accept cash in hand.


Originally Posted by: DEW 


Yesterday there was a local weirdo with an old fashioned cine camera filming passers by on the street, asking if they were making "essential journeys" and filming them like a vox pop fake journalist. Very intimidating. He came up to me and I told him I was going to Tesco and he said OK, "stay safe, watch your back"


I nodded and quickly moved on from the nutter. But others would have reacted very differently, especially the local yobbos


I imagine by the end of the day his camera would have been smashed to pieces!


 


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
15 April 2020 09:18:54


 


It’s a good question and I would say the majority of the time it is the former. I don’t think that any cold viruses reactivate as such rather than your immunity to a specific virus fades over time (so reinfection rather than reactivation) and in addition you get viruses that your immune system has not encountered before.


Edit: As for Covid-19 reinfection, I think the body of evidence (and length of time) is too small to come to any valid conclusion. We will no doubt find out in the coming months and years.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Thanks


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President
Brian Gaze
15 April 2020 09:24:21


 


I thought this was debunked by NickR?


Oversensitivity of testing?


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


False positives is believed to be a possible cause but at the moment it is not certain. Until confidence levels are higher we can't rely on "herd immunity" as our way out. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Chunky Pea
15 April 2020 09:26:32

It would seem that like most publicly funded 'professional' organisations,  the WHO will parrot whatever the dominant political narrative is at any one particular time:


Gaming bad - WHO last year:


https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/


 


Gaming now good - WHO this year:


https://globalnews.ca/news/6775552/world-health-organization-video-games-coronavirus-winnipeg/


 


 


 


 


 


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
15 April 2020 09:30:44


 


It’s a good question and I would say the majority of the time it is the former. I don’t think that any cold viruses reactivate as such rather than your immunity to a specific virus fades over time (so reinfection rather than reactivation) and in addition you get viruses that your immune system has not encountered before.


Edit: As for Covid-19 reinfection, I think the body of evidence (and length of time) is too small to come to any valid conclusion. We will no doubt find out in the coming months and years.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


There is evidence that some cold viruses can "hit and hide".


Researchers Discover Cold Virus Can 'Hit And Hide'


An international team of researchers has discovered that respiratory syncytial virus (RSV), a common cold virus causing bronchiolitis in children, can act as a 'hit and hide' virus.


Professor Peter Openshaw, from Imperial College London and St Mary's Hospital, and one of the papers authors, comments: "These studies show that RSV is a 'hit and hide' virus, rather like HIV, herpes or some hepatitis viruses. The symptoms seem to go away but the virus is just hiding, waiting for a chance to re-emerge and begin infecting other people."


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/04/040426055429.htm


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
15 April 2020 09:33:26

Sir Keir Starmer has just made a serious error of judgment. He is demanding that the government explains its exit strategy. Completely daft when we’re in the middle of a huge battle in which thousands of lives are being lost.

It’s like Churchill being told during the Blitz to discuss plans to rebuild the country after the war.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Plans for the Welfare State were laid by Beveridge and Butler re-designed the Education System during the war, and presumably Churchill authorised these efforts. So there is precedent for forward planning even at a time of crisis.


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl

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