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The Beast from the East
06 May 2020 09:51:11

"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
llamedos
  • llamedos
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
06 May 2020 09:51:40


 


I don't know whether this is true. Have you got any sources for the claim that HMG actively prevented NHS managers from buying PPE? Thanks.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 

I'm pleased you asked that question Justin, I didn't fancy getting savaged by the Baldock bulldog 


Baldock isn't all bad though, it does have a great butchers shop 

"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Ulric
06 May 2020 09:52:47
covid-19 tracing apps from a security perspective.
https://isc.sans.edu/forums/diary/Privacy+Preserving+Protocols+to+Trace+Covid19+Exposure/26066/ 
To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
The Beast from the East
06 May 2020 09:54:10

Handjob lying again on Sky news.


Claiming France and Spain do not count care home deaths in their numbers, which is why we are top of the league


The stupid presenter just let him get away with it

"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
06 May 2020 09:58:29

"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
06 May 2020 09:59:36

"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Ulric
06 May 2020 10:04:18


 


I don't know whether this is true. Have you got any sources for the claim that HMG actively prevented NHS managers from buying PPE? Thanks.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


This is the link previously posted on 2nd May.


https://www.hsj.co.uk/coronavirus/government-bans-trusts-from-major-ppe-deals-to-stop-them-competing-for-scarce-equipment/7027554.article


The implication is that government stopped NHS managers from buying PPE except through the government scheme and then, predictably, failed to deliver.


 


 

To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
noodle doodle
06 May 2020 10:09:58


 


Roger.


 


I've arrived late to this and the comments made are excellent. Statistics can always be interpreted in a way which suits the persons opinion. With the death rate for Coronavirus this obviously applies. One point I will make and I am not giving an opinion here. The 4 most sizeable  countries in Europe with the highest population densities are  1.The Netherlands, 2.Belgium and  3. United Kingdom 4. Germany.


However of these 4 the United Kingdom also has the largest share of remote areas, therefore it is likely that the urban areas of the UK are actually more densely populated than the other 3 countries. As far as I know this hasn't been mentioned in the comparisons.


 


Brian


Originally Posted by: Sharp Green Fox 


 


Lived in density -->


https://inews.co.uk/opinion/i-mapped-population-density-across-europe-britain-isnt-crowded-think-514403


 


Spain and France have similar absolute densities, but for lived in densities Spain is actually the highest in yurp - most of the population in cities, whereas France is actually v low  - down around iceland/scotland, - still quite rural, explains why the farmers have the country in a permanent nut crush


Though both have been similarly badly bit by corona (france has about a third more people)


 

Heavy Weather 2013
06 May 2020 10:11:18


Handjob lying again on Sky news.


Claiming France and Spain do not count care home deaths in their numbers, which is why we are top of the league


The stupid presenter just let him get away with it


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Yep. France started including care home deaths well before the UK in their daily figure. 


He really is economical with the truth.

Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Heavy Weather 2013
06 May 2020 10:14:24




Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


The RWM were probably delighted by this story. It means they didn’t have to put on their front pages the horrific death toll in this country.


The irony here of course is Boris has affairs and all that ilk. You never see the RWM in such a froth about that sort of stuff.


I do however, agree he should have resigned. 

Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Maunder Minimum
06 May 2020 10:22:37


 The RWM were probably delighted by this story. It means they didn’t have to put on their front pages the horrific death toll in this country.


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


You are talking about marginal differences in most of Europe (with the notable exception of Germany). We cannot be sure of the figures for any country in any case - the closest approximation of the truth will only come via post hoc analysis of excess deaths for a given period in different countries.

New world order coming.
speckledjim
06 May 2020 10:25:04
After 3 weeks back at School for primary children in Denmark it seems to be working well. They and teachers are not wearing masks and are focusing on social distancing (could be a challenge for many primary schools in the UK) and good hygiene.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52550470 
Thorner, West Yorkshire


Journalism is organised gossip
Essan
06 May 2020 10:26:50
To anyone who is self employed and has not received an email from the Govt, you can now go online and check to see if you are eligible for the self-employed income support scheme (you'll need your NI number and your self assessment unique taxpayer reference), and if so, register your contact details. You'll then be notified next week when you can apply - payments expected to take 6 days, so hopefully before the end of the month.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-a-grant-through-the-coronavirus-covid-19-self-employment-income-support-scheme?fbclid=IwAR1wcDP6qYVEWrZwQYv33fiSdIkpVGd6Pt7ykR8CMcVsMC-Kuq1Nvz1M0qc 
Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Maunder Minimum
06 May 2020 10:27:08

After 3 weeks back at School for primary children in Denmark it seems to be working well. They and teachers are not wearing masks and are focusing on social distancing (could be a challenge for many primary schools in the UK) and good hygiene.

Originally Posted by: speckledjim 

">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52550470


We should follow suit. But as you say, it requires respect for the teacher and discipline.

New world order coming.
Maunder Minimum
06 May 2020 10:29:42

To anyone who is self employed and has not received an email from the Govt, you can now go online and check to see if you are eligible for the self-employed income support scheme (you'll need your NI number and your self assessment unique taxpayer reference), and if so, register your contact details. You'll then be notified next week when you can apply - payments expected to take 6 days, so hopefully before the end of the month.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-a-grant-through-the-coronavirus-covid-19-self-employment-income-support-scheme?fbclid=IwAR1wcDP6qYVEWrZwQYv33fiSdIkpVGd6Pt7ykR8CMcVsMC-Kuq1Nvz1M0qc

Originally Posted by: Essan 


Some on here love bashing the Government regardless of how it is doing. On the positive side of the balance sheet was the speed and efficiency with which the furlough scheme was put in place and now we have support for the self employed too.


The Treasury thus far has shown PHE how to get things done!

New world order coming.
Essan
06 May 2020 10:30:13


">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52550470


We should follow suit. But as you say, it requires respect for the teacher and discipline.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

 

I think you may have highlighted two major problems there 

Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Essan
06 May 2020 10:32:12


 


Some on here love bashing the Government regardless of how it is doing. On the positive side of the balance sheet was the speed and efficiency with which the furlough scheme was put in place and now we have support for the self employed too.


The Treasury thus far has shown PHE how to get things done!


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 



Indeed.  We were told this scheme would be in place by the end of May with payments likely in June

Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Phil G
06 May 2020 10:33:38


 


Russia's death figures are not the lowest in proportion to new cases. In any case bear in mind that deaths lag new cases by 2-3 weeks; 2-3 weeks ago Russia only had 1-2,000 cases per day.


Current country totals include:


Russia 165,929 cases, 1,537 deaths (0.9%)
Saudi Arabia 30,251 cases, 200 deaths (0.6%)
Chile 22,016 cases, 275 deaths (1.2%)
Singapore 20,198 cases, 18 deaths (0.1%)
Belarus 18,350 cases, 107 deaths (0.6%)
Qatar 17,142 cases, 12 deaths (0.1%)
UAE 15,192 cases, 146 deaths (1.0%)
Kuwait 5,804 cases, 40 deaths (0.7%)


I haven't noticed you calling out Singapore or Qatar?


Originally Posted by: Darren S 


I don't trust all these either, but Russia is the big one. 100 doctors and nurses have died alone. You mean to say Russia "had only" 1-2,000 new cases per day, but already then their services were stretched with 9 hour ambulance queues just to get into hospitals, ministers going down with the virus like flies. I'll tell ya, there is a bigger catastrophe going on there at the moment.

Brian Gaze
06 May 2020 10:35:13


 


Yep. France started including care home deaths well before the UK in their daily figure. 


He really is economical with the truth.


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


Indeed. The UK government in its daily presentations used the French figures which were including care home deaths and compared their numbers directly to ours which weren't. Funny how they were prepared to make comparisons then between countries at that point. Now we here more and more obfuscation about what has happened.   

Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
xioni2
06 May 2020 10:43:11


 Indeed. The UK government in its daily presentations used the French figures which were including care home deaths and compared their numbers directly to ours which weren't. Funny how they were prepared to make comparisons then between countries at that point. Now we here more and more obfuscation about what has happened.   


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Exactly. Also Belgium's death figures includes suspected cases (without a test). Only the excess mortality will show the true picture after some time.

Justin W
06 May 2020 10:45:21


 


This is the link previously posted on 2nd May.


https://www.hsj.co.uk/coronavirus/government-bans-trusts-from-major-ppe-deals-to-stop-them-competing-for-scarce-equipment/7027554.article


The implication is that government stopped NHS managers from buying PPE except through the government scheme and then, predictably, failed to deliver.


 


 


Originally Posted by: Ulric 


 


Except that HMG only ordered them to stop procuring it themselves on Friday, May 1 according to the that article - long after the PPE crisis got underway. I don't think that it proves anything.

Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Justin W
06 May 2020 10:46:46


 


Exactly. Also Belgium's death figures includes suspected cases (without a test). Only the excess mortality will show the true picture after some time.


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


Excess deaths at 52,000 up to April 24. The death toll in the UK will eventually be north of 100,000. I have no idea whether that will be the highest in Europe but it is pretty clear it will be near the top of the table.

Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Gavin D
06 May 2020 10:48:15
Ikea is planning to reopen its stores across the UK on Monday 18th May
Bugglesgate
06 May 2020 10:49:22


 Exactly. Also Belgium's death figures includes suspected cases (without a test). Only the excess mortality will show the true picture after some time.


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


The stats are a bloody mess - I can't honestly see the point in international comparisons when everyone is doing different things and you don't have confidence in the accuracy of various figures.


The only figures that make sense are death rate  / Million from all sources.  When you have that,  you can argue the toss about population density, resources (etc).


 


 

Chris (It,its)
Between Newbury and Basingstoke
"When they are giving you their all, some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy banging your heart against some mad buggers wall"
Chidog
06 May 2020 10:50:23


 


Excess deaths at 52,000 up to April 24. The death toll in the UK will eventually be north of 100,000. I have no idea whether that will be the highest in Europe but it is pretty clear it will be near the top of the table.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


I believe it was 42k to April 24th and 52k as of yesterday. The point still stands though

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