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moomin75
15 June 2020 16:35:00
GFS backs down yet again, just as UKMO upgrades towards an Azores High. None of these models are fit for purpose.
Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Col
  • Col
  • Advanced Member
15 June 2020 16:39:34

GFS backs down yet again, just as UKMO upgrades towards an Azores High. None of these models are fit for purpose.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Just as I'm watching it uploading, I just knew you'd be there to tell us that!


Col
Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl
Snow videos:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3QvmL4UWBmHFMKWiwYm_gg
moomin75
15 June 2020 16:50:05


 


Just as I'm watching it uploading, I just knew you'd be there to tell us that!


Originally Posted by: Col 

Forgive me for commenting on the models in the model thread.


I am more encouraged that ECM/UKMO has trended more settled because the GFS has been the biggest pile of pig swill going over the last few weeks.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
David M Porter
15 June 2020 16:52:03

GFS seems to be all over the place at the moment; very settled in one op run, and then the polar opposite in the next.


That said, it hasn't been alone recently in this respect.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
moomin75
15 June 2020 16:56:07


GFS seems to be all over the place at the moment; very settled in one op run, and then the polar opposite in the next.


That said, it hasn't been alone recently in this respect.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

No it hasn't been alone, but is without a doubt the worst of the lot. GEM appears to have been the most consistent TBH.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Brian Gaze
15 June 2020 17:35:28

Icon looks ok. Still going round in par.



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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speckledjim
15 June 2020 18:38:40

GFS backs down yet again, just as UKMO upgrades towards an Azores High. None of these models are fit for purpose.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 


You were lauding the UKMO the other week so what’s changed? 


Thorner, West Yorkshire


Journalism is organised gossip
TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
15 June 2020 18:41:50
The models really aren’t all over the place. They just have very slight differences in the positioning of a large dartboard low in the Atlantic.

Slightly further South East and it’s cool, breezy and damp. Slightly further North West and it’s a heatwave.
Brockley, South East London 30m asl
TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
15 June 2020 18:46:40
ECM looks nice.
Brockley, South East London 30m asl
SJV
15 June 2020 18:57:36


 


You were lauding the UKMO the other week so what’s changed? 


Originally Posted by: speckledjim 


I genuinely think some overread the models at times. I don't think the picture has changed too much over recent days when you focus on the ensembles rather than each and every run. That way you smooth over the variability somewhat and get a better look at the trends.

Ally Pally Snowman
15 June 2020 18:57:47

Another absolutely stunning ECM . Azores high pushing in nicely by 120h. 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Downpour
15 June 2020 20:42:16


 


You were lauding the UKMO the other week so what’s changed? 


Originally Posted by: speckledjim 


It’s showing a settled outcome? 


Chingford
London E4
147ft
Downpour
15 June 2020 20:46:23


I wasnt Ally. Read what I just said. I'm looking at ALL the  major models. And furthermore, I said I didn't buy into what GFS was showing over the last few days. It's been nothing short of a shambles for many weeks. I take a broader view of all the major models and form an opinion, and that opinion is more unsettled weather for the rest of June.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


the output looks like fairly benign English summer fare to me: some sunshine, some showers for the gardens. Pleasantly warm in the south. These last few days have been far better than your forecasts predicted - far from being a ‘write off’ June has been rather nice for many!


Chingford
London E4
147ft
Ally Pally Snowman
16 June 2020 06:53:37

Another lovely ECM this morning looks like heatwave conditions from day 6 onwards for the SE and EA. UKMO similar at day 6.


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
16 June 2020 07:01:34

GFS - slack LP this week, then Atlantic more active than predicted yesterday with 985 mb depression of NW Ireland Sun 21st which swirls around and has another go approaching Scotland on Fri 26th, the SE remaining warm under influence of continental HP until a general decrease in pressure Wed 1st.


GEFS - In the S, mostly dry, mean of temps around seasonal norm though op run definitely warm for Thu 25th and cool for Mon 29th. In Scotland a N England, looking a bit cooler after early warmth, and more in the way of rain generally, esp in the W.


ECM - Similar at first but that Atlantic LP fills by Fri 26th


BBC last night were however bullish about large area of HP across UK by the weekend


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
ozone_aurora
16 June 2020 09:11:13

MO haven't seemed to have updated the charts properly. Seems to be 2 sets of models in B&W & colour, starting yesterday, so don't know which one's correct. Does anyone know a good alternative pressure charts site?


TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
16 June 2020 09:54:25

It's got to that stage of the season where I obsessively follow all model updates as they drip out, starting with ICON and ending with ECM and ECM ENS. (Like others do in the winter, when I tend to go into model watching hibernation).


So ICON is first out for 06z:



Similar to 00z, which was one of the more unsettled model runs this morning. Possibly a tad flatter and less cyclonic at 120hrs, but it's marginal.


GFS is next. Up to 120hrs [EDIT: was only up to 90 before] it's pretty similar to 00z (which was a middling run). Marginally better.



Always very noticeable when you do like for like comparisons like this how similar the evolution is between models and between runs up to around 5 days. We only really start diverging in any meaningful way after that. Our marginal position at the edge of the Atlantic storm track means small differences like those above can be the difference between a coolish damp day and a warm muggy one (this Sunday), even within a similar long term evolution.


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
moomin75
16 June 2020 10:51:14
What I've noticed is that on all models, predominantly but noting exclusively the GFS, is that the Azores High always struggles to properly ridge in. It makes efforts constantly, but is being held off by the troughing to our north west forcing it backwards on occasions.
Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Brian Gaze
16 June 2020 11:19:43

What I've noticed is that on all models, predominantly but noting exclusively the GFS, is that the Azores High always struggles to properly ridge in. It makes efforts constantly, but is being held off by the troughing to our north west forcing it backwards on occasions.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 


The clue is in the name. "Azores high". And it's not the second word. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
severnside
16 June 2020 11:19:46

Yes, that's a good summary Moomin, that's what I am seeing too. That Low in the North West is exerting its strength unfortunately. 

TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
16 June 2020 11:30:29


 


The clue is in the name. "Azores high". And it's not the second word. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Yes, that annoying "Azores High" keeps hanging around the Azores because of the pesky "Icelandic Low" which persistently loiters around Iceland.


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
moomin75
16 June 2020 12:01:00


 


The clue is in the name. "Azores high". And it's not the second word. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Yes, but what I'm getting at is in the best summers, the Azores high ridges in across the country and migrates east, dragging up warmth from the south. This year, there seems to be a propensity of it trying to do that, but is being forced backwards by the troughing more than in the better years. That to me is all the evidence I need to assume a changeable summer at best, because in the best summers, the Azore ridge will build and block off anything from the west/northwest.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Brian Gaze
16 June 2020 12:06:27


Yes, but what I'm getting at is in the best summers, the Azores high ridges in across the country and migrates east, dragging up warmth from the south. This year, there seems to be a propensity of it trying to do that, but is being forced backwards by the troughing more than in the better years. That to me is all the evidence I need to assume a changeable summer at best, because in the best summers, the Azore ridge will build and block off anything from the west/northwest.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


The weather at the moment does remind me of the summers of my youth. Often bright in the morning before the cloud and showers bubble up. I'm pleased with my summer forecast so far. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
moomin75
16 June 2020 12:08:04


 


The weather at the moment does remind me of the summers of my youth. Often bright in the morning before the cloud and showers bubble up. I'm pleased with my summer forecast so far. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Indeed Brian. So far, so good with yours!


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Rob K
16 June 2020 14:51:12
Yes it’s proper British summer weather, warm in the sun but with the threat of a downpour (sky properly black here now but again it looks like the rain will skirt a mile or two to the north, just like last night).

Growing consensus on GEFS of a 15C 850mb plume peaking around June 27th.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

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