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White Meadows
07 October 2020 19:15:11

Back to the charts, and its great to see some blocking pop up. Some of these charts if they were say another 6 weeks ahead would be pretty wintry...

But its not that cold yet, and I reckon we will have a very cold, windy and damp end to Autumn. close but no cigar situation...

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


Agreed. 
Some classic blocking hints on the 12z

Gooner
07 October 2020 19:23:11

240 GFS 



300 GFS



384 GFS



lots of blocking around as mentioned - seems to tie in with the lack of zonal winds as Gav has mentioned and per Tally's post 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
07 October 2020 19:25:02

ECM 240 Shows the blocking that's in agreement with the Met update 



Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


White Meadows
07 October 2020 21:35:14
No hurricane this year then! 🤣
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
08 October 2020 07:01:39

16-dayer keeps W Europe cool for the next couple of weeks, and arin to the west (esp the UK week 2). Big blob of blue appears over N Russia week 2 as well - winter on its way. http://www.wxmaps.org/pix/temp4


GFs - current LP passes by followed by that Atlantic ridge of HP as yesterday - but more short-lived than previously forecast with area of LP in N Atlantic affecting all UK Fri 16th moving steadily S past W Ireland to Spain over the following week, and S/SE winds for the UK (gales for the E Coast later)


GEFS - temps dropping off (in the S 7C below norm by Sun 11th) gradually recovering to norm by Fri 18th. Fair agreement to that point but although mean is still on the norm, uncerainty sets in with op & control amongst the warmest. Rain from ca Tue 13th increasing in probability, both frequency and amount, esp in S & W.


ECM - yesterday 12z looked like GFS does now but this morning's 0z takes a different course from Wed 14th with quite deep LP over Belgium that day gradually linking up with Atlantic to set up broad trough of LP France- Greenland by Sat 17th which on the Sun converges on the GFS model with the trough becoming localised off W Ireland.


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Lionel Hutz
08 October 2020 07:50:03


ECM 240 Shows the blocking that's in agreement with the Met update 



Originally Posted by: Gooner 


I seem to recall that there was a marked tendency to blocking last October also until some point in November when the Atlantic started to crank up.


Lionel Hutz
Nr.Waterford , S E Ireland
68m ASL



ballamar
08 October 2020 08:32:15


 


I seem to recall that there was a marked tendency to blocking last October also until some point in November when the Atlantic started to crank up.


Originally Posted by: Lionel Hutz 


indeed almost as soon as Nov ended Atlantic cranked up, who knows if it will be different this year. If you want a cold one the best thing is hope as no model can predict!!


hopefully we get some decent cold early on 

Gooner
08 October 2020 09:01:23


 


I seem to recall that there was a marked tendency to blocking last October also until some point in November when the Atlantic started to crank up.


Originally Posted by: Lionel Hutz 


There was , lets hope its not a repeat , hopefully the forecast of a quieter Atlantic will help our cause ?


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
08 October 2020 09:02:47



Lets hope this can continue 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Saint Snow
08 October 2020 11:06:58




Lets hope this can continue 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


 


for 4 months would be ideal



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
GezM
  • GezM
  • Advanced Member
08 October 2020 11:41:06
I may have missed it, but I'm surprised nobody is talking about the possible impacts of the recently arrived La Nina event on our winter.

This is worth a read ...

https://www.severe-weather.eu/long-range-2/winter-forecast-season-2020-2021-lanina-early-look-fa/ 

Living in St Albans, Herts (116m asl)
Working at Luton Airport, Beds (160m asl)
Saint Snow
08 October 2020 12:17:41

I may have missed it, but I'm surprised nobody is talking about the possible impacts of the recently arrived La Nina event on our winter.

This is worth a read ...

https://www.severe-weather.eu/long-range-2/winter-forecast-season-2020-2021-lanina-early-look-fa/

Originally Posted by: GezM 


 


"Europe is expected to have warmer than average temperatures over most of the continent...


...The British Isles and Scandinavia could have more unsettled winter, as the jet stream positions over these regions, bringing behind more stormy weather."


 


Triffic 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Brian Gaze
08 October 2020 12:21:06

I may have missed it, but I'm surprised nobody is talking about the possible impacts of the recently arrived La Nina event on our winter.

This is worth a read ...

https://www.severe-weather.eu/long-range-2/winter-forecast-season-2020-2021-lanina-early-look-fa/

Originally Posted by: GezM 


Personally I wouldn't bother with any website, app or social media that has words like "severe, snow, thunderstorm" in its title. I could be doing a disservice. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Gandalf The White
08 October 2020 13:13:12


 


Personally I wouldn't bother with any website, app or social media that has words like "severe, snow, thunderstorm" in its title. I could be doing a disservice. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Actually it's a reasonable analysis and their forecast doesn't mention any of the words you've quoted.


Their summary says 'Europe is expected to have warmer than average temperatures over most of the continent.'


They look at the ECM, UKMO and CFS seasonal models and the European models point towards high pressure to the south or south-east. One chart looks horribly like the result of a repeated Bartlett pattern, although of course it's a 3-month snap shot.


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


CField
08 October 2020 13:50:52

quote=Gooner;1263672]


 


There was , lets hope its not a repeat , hopefully the forecast of a quieter Atlantic will help our cause ?


whether the winters have been quieter or stormy on the run up to the start of winter ( first two weeks of December) the fixed patterns hence have been remarkably consistent in recent years of establishing over that period.I must say the timetables for autumn starting this year almost identical to last year so theres no reason to believe this year will be any different.Obviously hope it is but since 1987 been in this place too many times to feel comforted by recent charts.But the saying cold Octobers Novembers = mild winters dont really wash if you look at 62 but obviously that followed very cold March....heres to further rollercoasters..


Favourite snowstorm
Famous channel low
Dec 31st 1978
Hastings East Sussex
Foot of level snow severe drifting
Next day max temp -4 degrees Celsius
Gooner
08 October 2020 14:00:00


quote=Gooner;1263672]


 


There was , lets hope its not a repeat , hopefully the forecast of a quieter Atlantic will help our cause ?


Originally Posted by: CField 

whether the winters have been quieter or stormy on the run up to the start of winter ( first two weeks of December) the fixed patterns hence have been remarkable consistent in recent years of establishing over that period.I must say the timetables for autumn starting this year almost identical to last year so theres no reason to believe this year will be any different.Obviously hope it is but since 1987 been in this place too many times to feel comforted by recent charts.But the saying cold Octobers Novembers = mild winters dont really wash if you look at 62 but obviously that followed very cold March....heres to further rollercoasters..



 


 


The weather doesn't have a memory , I'm certainly not a subscriber to pattern matching , actually far too many ingredients to our weather to say X year will be the same as because ………...


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Brian Gaze
08 October 2020 14:07:00


There was , lets hope its not a repeat , hopefully the forecast of a quieter Atlantic will help our cause ?


whether the winters have been quieter or stormy on the run up to the start of winter ( first two weeks of December) the fixed patterns hence have been remarkably consistent in recent years of establishing over that period.I must say the timetables for autumn starting this year almost identical to last year so theres no reason to believe this year will be any different.Obviously hope it is but since 1987 been in this place too many times to feel comforted by recent charts.But the saying cold Octobers Novembers = mild winters dont really wash if you look at 62 but obviously that followed very cold March....heres to further rollercoasters..


Originally Posted by: CField 


In 62 most or nearly all months were below CET IIRC. This year the only below average month so far is July and that was marginal.


https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html


October may finish below par but it's still too early to call. Nonetheless, the La Nina pattern is thought to increase the chances of cold snaps in late autumn and early winter so there is some interest for coldies.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Saint Snow
08 October 2020 14:39:35


quote=Gooner;1263672]


 


There was , lets hope its not a repeat , hopefully the forecast of a quieter Atlantic will help our cause ?


Originally Posted by: CField 

whether the winters have been quieter or stormy on the run up to the start of winter ( first two weeks of December) the fixed patterns hence have been remarkably consistent in recent years of establishing over that period.I must say the timetables for autumn starting this year almost identical to last year so theres no reason to believe this year will be any different.Obviously hope it is but since 1987 been in this place too many times to feel comforted by recent charts.But the saying cold Octobers Novembers = mild winters dont really wash if you look at 62 but obviously that followed very cold March....heres to further rollercoasters..



 


We had a stormy first half/two thirds (I forget) of Nov 10, with I think more flooding in the Lakes (following the devastating floods of 2009). There was one particularly wild storm that blew our trampoline (stored down the side of the house on its side) along to smash the downstairs cloakroom window,


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Whether Idle
08 October 2020 18:00:51

My view is that the global climate systems have been put through so much stress through increased meltwater, heating of oceans and warming at the poles since 2000 (to pluck a somewhat arbitrary date), that the patterns and old linkages that were viable in the latter twentieth century have now ceased to be relevant in a climate that is warming rapidly and a climate in the UK that is increasingly susceptible to getting weather patterns stuck in a rut.


Unfortunately the only new pattern that does appear to have much reliability is that favourable signs in November are replaced by dire Atlantic driven weather for the rest of the winter months.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Brian Gaze
08 October 2020 19:46:11

Warming trend appearing the 16 day 12z GEFS output.



 


Compared with the current GEFS35 (which is actually yesterday's still)


 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
doctormog
08 October 2020 20:05:08
Yes, it looks like we may be back up to average on about 9 days time (although the ECM is less encouraging).
Gandalf The White
08 October 2020 21:49:01

Yes, it looks like we may be back up to average on about 9 days time (although the ECM is less encouraging).

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Yes, I was slightly surprised to see Brian's post because the outlook has the potential to be rather cool. As you say ECM has quite a decent signal for blocking over the Greenland area by Day 10:


 



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
09 October 2020 07:09:32

Jetstream - still in looping mode - big loop over N Sea Sun 11th moving S at first but  becoming a rather tanged cut-off low icovering most of Europe Wed 14th interacting with a narrower loop from the Atlantic which takes over and forms a cut-off in Biscay Sat 17th also mving off S-wards. Then a more or less usual W-ly jet over or close to UK to Sun 25th, though waving about so affecting N and S Britain by turns.


GFS - N-S Ridge of HP for a few days being displaced N-wards by LP over Low Countries Wed 14th and as that LP tracks SW-wards to Spain, ridge becomes aligned W-E over Scotland. Atlantic re-asserts itself Wed 21st with LP north of SCotland generating secondaries which cross S UK Sat 24h and promise to become the major LP centre thereafter with deep LP winding up W of Cornwall Sun 25th


GEFS - Much as yesterday; cool at first recovering to norm with reasonable agreement between runs to Mon 19th, after which much variation but hints of a cool down to Sun 25th. Rain from Tue 13th onwards, some large falls in various runs for the S, less dramatic in Scotland but still not agreeing well with the idea of a ridge there (as per GFS).


ECM - similar to GFS but LP hangs around SW Britain Mon 19th rather than tracking off to Spain


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
CField
09 October 2020 08:53:11

First London snow row....



Favourite snowstorm
Famous channel low
Dec 31st 1978
Hastings East Sussex
Foot of level snow severe drifting
Next day max temp -4 degrees Celsius
Rob K
09 October 2020 09:02:13


First London snow row....


Originally Posted by: CField 


We've had at least two already :)


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

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