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Rob K
10 February 2021 07:48:06
I’ve only just noticed there is a parallel ECM run on Meteociel now.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Gandalf The White
10 February 2021 07:55:40

Looking across the models’ output it does seem very probable that a breakdown to milder (southerly influence) conditions will take place through the weekend. Temperatures look likely to be back into double figures in places by Tuesday. Yes, I guess things could change but at this range it is unlikely they change that much.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


That’s pretty much the way I see it, although double digits might be a stretch for most places.


We have that unfortunate breakdown pattern where the first push from LP dies as it hits the cold air and the block but changes the airmass sufficiently that the second push delivers rain for low ground in the southern half.


But the cold never looks to be pushed very far to our east and there have been repeated hints at a rebuild of high pressure somewhere to our east or north east.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Hippydave
10 February 2021 08:10:06


 


That’s pretty much the way I see it, although double digits might be a stretch for most places.


We have that unfortunate breakdown pattern where the first push from LP dies as it hits the cold air and the block but changes the airmass sufficiently that the second push delivers rain for low ground in the southern half.


But the cold never looks to be pushed very far to our east and there have been repeated hints at a rebuild of high pressure somewhere to our east or north east.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


I think that (and Docs quoted text) are a pretty fair assessment given where all the ops and ens suites are sat at. I guess GFS 00z Op is only a small tweak away from cold and if you squint at the ECM ens for my backyard there's suggestions of colder possibilities after the initial mild breakthrough but in general it seems the cold will be largely pushed back from the country for a while at least. 


Down here I suspect any breakdown will be of the profoundly boring variety - fronts dying and maybe a bit of sleety stuff before that turns to drizzle and then just mild. 


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
Gooner
10 February 2021 08:11:34


 


Not down here it doesn't - the mild air wins out on Tuesday and it chucks it down with rain, not even any transitional snow. There's loads more rain over the following days as the cold retreats further north.


https://xcweather.co.uk/forecast/leysdown


All very much subject to change of course. (The GFS(P) has some snow on Tuesday instead, FWIW. And, of course, it's noteworthy how the transition date keeps being pushed back!)


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Those XC weather charts are a waste of time Darren 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
10 February 2021 08:15:43

Thought it was quiet in here then checked the ECM & GFS...........only hope is for a snowy breakdown but that’s now looking unlikely........at this stage.....

Originally Posted by: surbitonweather 


Depends where you are 


Chart image


Chart image


Chart image


Chart image


Chart image


To be taken with a pinch of salt , further North you are the better . I have found this winter that most computer models forecasting snow are pretty poor IMO - GFS for a few runs is looking at some sort of snowy finish ( to this cold spell )  it's just where and when that has to be decided 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Ally Pally Snowman
10 February 2021 08:24:40

Looks like milder weather from the south from about the 15th is favoured now. Ecm has WAA going right through the UK.  But this should re enforce the block in about 10 days. And could lead to another significant easterly late February. 


 


ECM day 10.


https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=1&model=ecm&var=2&run=0&time=240&lid=OP&h=0&mv=0&tr=24#mapref


GFS day 13


https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=1&model=gfs&var=1&run=0&time=312&lid=OP&h=0&mv=0&tr=24#mapref


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
western100
10 February 2021 08:47:22
Looking at the models today. Looks like a milder period / back to average is on course to begin at the weekend

It will have meant a solid 7 day cold spell which will have been pretty severe by UK standards

Temperatures may go above average in the SW and DD but that’s pretty standard in late February. Elsewhere it will be 5s - 9s potentially

Unfortunately we may not get a snowy end which is always a brucey bonus but the fronts look like changing the airflow significantly and once the push happens it’s a standard rain front?

Can’t discount the precipitation models showing snow but unfortunately they aren’t very accurate +24 hours
Worcestershire / Warwickshire Border
100m ASL
Twitter…..@Weather4u2
western100
10 February 2021 08:51:33


Looks like milder weather from the south from about the 15th is favoured now. Ecm has WAA going right through the UK.  But this should re enforce the block in about 10 days. And could lead to another significant easterly late February. 


 


ECM day 10.


https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=1&model=ecm&var=2&run=0&time=240&lid=OP&h=0&mv=0&tr=24#mapref


GFS day 13


https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=1&model=gfs&var=1&run=0&time=312&lid=OP&h=0&mv=0&tr=24#mapref


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


The WAA would help reinforce a block but where the block is reinforced to is not known. It may end up with a Central European block which would lead to a milder airflow for us or it could reinforce a block back over Scandi which would give the option you say 


Worcestershire / Warwickshire Border
100m ASL
Twitter…..@Weather4u2
Rob K
10 February 2021 09:31:57


 


Those XC weather charts are a waste of time Darren 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Only in the sense that GFS is a waste of time - XC weather gives a useful summary of what the GFS is showing in your backyard without having to squint at dozens of charts.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Sevendust
10 February 2021 09:35:14

Looking across the models’ output it does seem very probable that a breakdown to milder (southerly influence) conditions will take place through the weekend. Temperatures look likely to be back into double figures in places by Tuesday. Yes, I guess things could change but at this range it is unlikely they change that much.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Spot on. With the block remaining to the east you can't rule out a return of cold down the line.


In the meantime a long fetch southerly would be a reminder that we are heading towards Spring.


The weather remains very interesting which is always good in my book 

doctormog
10 February 2021 09:40:31
On a different note I notice that the models are showing some form of polar low in the North Sea later today into Friday and I'm wondering if it could impact some NE parts. It got a brief mention (in terms of snow potential not mentioned as a polar low) on this morning's BBC forecast.

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPUK06_12_1.png 
GezM
  • GezM
  • Advanced Member
10 February 2021 09:57:50

Thought it was quiet in here then checked the ECM & GFS...........only hope is for a snowy breakdown but that’s now looking unlikely........at this stage.....

Originally Posted by: surbitonweather 


My experience of snowy breakdowns is very poor and best avoided. Typically in the South East we have sub-zero temperatures, cloud thickening, winds picking up to make it feel very raw. This is followed by 30 minutes of light sleet/wet snow/freezing rain, which is in turn followed by a critical rise in temperature and 6 hours of cold to mild heavy rain ....


Living in St Albans, Herts (116m asl)
Working at Luton Airport, Beds (160m asl)
Quantum
10 February 2021 10:03:02

weekendairmass


full image:https://i.ibb.co/FmgTK6h/weekendairmass.png


Where the airmass is coming from over the weekend.


The mild atlantic airmass is making very slow progress. Its the development of the med airmass (yellow) that eventually scuppers us.


Takes bloody ages though.


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Scandy 1050 MB
10 February 2021 10:03:42


 


My experience of snowy breakdowns is very poor and best avoided. Typically in the South East we have sub-zero temperatures, cloud thickening, winds picking up to make it feel very raw. This is followed by 30 minutes of light sleet/wet snow/freezing rain, which is in turn followed by a critical rise in temperature and 6 hours of cold to mild heavy rain ....


Originally Posted by: GezM 


Best breakdown this century was from the February 2018 spell, decent day of snow from that on the Friday and even more impressive considering it was March by then.

Chiltern Blizzard
10 February 2021 10:03:54


 


My experience of snowy breakdowns is very poor and best avoided. Typically in the South East we have sub-zero temperatures, cloud thickening, winds picking up to make it feel very raw. This is followed by 30 minutes of light sleet/wet snow/freezing rain, which is in turn followed by a critical rise in temperature and 6 hours of cold to mild heavy rain ....


Originally Posted by: GezM 


Indeed, snowy breakdowns are throughly miserable affairs.


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
chiversa56
10 February 2021 10:06:49


 


Only in the sense that GFS is a waste of time - XC weather gives a useful summary of what the GFS is showing in your backyard without having to squint at dozens of charts.


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Yes I have found XCweather was always good for providing a basic easy visual map on the weather or  which you can select  a particular location.  I like the way it shows the wind direction and speed using colours. as it crosses the UK for example as I say visually effective if you just want to glance  But there are some great apps out there these days .. I have started using the weather channel ( weather.com) which provides a lot of useful location data  (just enter your postcode) .and i like the 'real time' map. but iahve also tried netweather, weather underground and accuweather.  


Lower Test Valley, 20m ASL
ballamar
10 February 2021 10:11:13
GFS looks like there are conflicting signals one to retrogress and one to sink the high. If we do get a mild spell could be short lived and could still be some cold nights
Rob K
10 February 2021 10:13:00
Breakdown is struggling on the GFS op run, first push fizzles to nothing and there second is still in the SW on Tuesday evening.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Quantum
10 February 2021 10:13:35

Monday at 3pm:


https://i.ibb.co/82MNV6B/earlynxtweekairmass.jpg 


Atlantic airmass has retreated west. The problem is the development of the yellow med airmass. This should also kill off any warm front by diluting the temperature gradient (sorry folks, no big breakdown event). Most of the UK is still in the cold airmass though.


earlynxtweekairmass


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Rob K
10 February 2021 10:17:52

GFSP produces quite a snow event in the west on Saturday before the front fizzles:


 


(snow charts come with usual health warnings)


 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
SnowyHythe(Kent)
10 February 2021 10:19:18
Parallel GFS is pushing cold back west
Rob K
10 February 2021 10:20:52

Parallel GFS is pushing cold back west

Originally Posted by: SnowyHythe(Kent) 


Yep and even the op run maintains the block with a cool southeasterly flow, although the deep cold is way down in the Balkans.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Quantum
10 February 2021 10:22:27

Airmass next Tuesday:


Full image: https://i.ibb.co/DrvMgWD/nxttuesdayairmass.jpg



A restrengthening of the front with the red atlantic airmass finally making progress.


Development of a 4th 'W european' airmass from air travelling over the less cold part of France. German airmass still across E UK.


Keep in mind this is +153h now, well into FI and the dark blue line is still over the UK.


 


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
ballamar
10 February 2021 10:24:52
Parallel run pulls out sub -10 this time next week in a keen easterly
The Beast from the East
10 February 2021 10:27:39

Control similar so far. Couldnt be more different to GEM and other output



"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President

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