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Quantum
17 February 2021 11:38:36

One thing I've noticed in the runs that is very consistent, is for an extremely cold siberian high to develop and a classic 'cold continents, warm arctic pattern'


There is some ridiculously cold air Finland eastward that, were a scandi high to setup (and it could) would push the deepest cold this winter in our direction.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
nsrobins
17 February 2021 16:18:31


One thing I've noticed in the runs that is very consistent, is for an extremely cold siberian high to develop and a classic 'cold continents, warm arctic pattern'


There is some ridiculously cold air Finland eastward that, were a scandi high to setup (and it could) would push the deepest cold this winter in our direction.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Q as much as I admire your enthusiasm I think the ship has sailed now for anything the right side of decent.


I wouldn’t rule out a cool/cold spell before the end of March - no one should - but this winter is almost over for me (not that it really begun here).


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Gusty
17 February 2021 16:42:50


 Q as much as I admire your enthusiasm I think the ship has sailed now for anything the right side of decent.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


.... Careful 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
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Snow Hoper
17 February 2021 17:02:18


 


.... Careful 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


 


🤫🤫


Going to war over religion is like killing each other to see who has the better imaginary friend.


Home : Thorndon, Suffolk.
Quantum
17 February 2021 17:03:54

The 12Z charts don't represent the full potential of what could happen if the high develops slightly further NW. In the 12Z GFS and GFSP the real cold air is cutoff in western siberia, and we end up with a run of the mill scandi flow.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
17 February 2021 17:05:15

GEM shows the cold air getting into Europe.



So if a scandi high developed at this point it woudl end up being alot colder than the GFS scenario.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
17 February 2021 17:07:50

CFS shows the other extreme where the high forms too far NW.


Cold gets rerouted via the arctic ocean.



Its a cold northerly but the best route for Siberian cold is a direct one.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
lezrob
17 February 2021 17:09:14
Haha deepest depths of fantasy, but here we go again

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?mode=0&ech=204 

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2021021712/gfs-0-378.png?12 



Been lurking for 7 years... Still know nothing.. Weather fascinates..
Banbury Oxon
Ally Pally Snowman
17 February 2021 18:26:34

GFS Para also has a significant easterly early March.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=336&mode=0&runpara=1


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
nsrobins
17 February 2021 18:29:04


 


.... Careful 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


In the very next run you can see the potential effectiveness of my ruse?


😉😂


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Quantum
17 February 2021 18:31:20


 



This pertubation illustrates the correct positioning of the siberian high.


So the air here is sourced from Russia, not just scandi. This is what we are aiming for.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
17 February 2021 18:33:23


This one may look similar but is a much less ideal scenario.


Scandi sourced rather than siberian.


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
17 February 2021 18:36:35

There is very good agreement for this siberian high setting up. And its positioning is favourable, i.e in the arctic ocean where the warm air is. 2nd chart shows the uncertainty, which is low in this region.


 


 




2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Brian Gaze
17 February 2021 18:41:21

GEFS continues to show the possibility of it turning colder at the very end and the snow row climbs to 9 on this update.


PS: GFSv16 is scheduled to go live on March 17th.  



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
BJBlake
18 February 2021 00:16:32

Yes - here we go...that SSW is showing it’s hand in the models, and 2018 demonstrated well how March can deliver something memorable, even in these warmed times. Just need the jet amplification to rinse and repeat, which is likely. Anyone for a ride on Stealth? Might be rough but it will have some thrills and spills!!


Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL
Surrey John
18 February 2021 07:51:37
Just had a glance at latest ensembles are there is a cooling tread beyond 7 days time (25th)

Now looking like +13c being exceeded in UK in Feb is quite unlikely (or a best just for few hours),

The possibility of another cold pool returning into Northern Europe is currently about a third, so am trying to consider this differently and have just looked at the latest Baltic Sea temperatures and ice as that gives indication of surface cold, it has become much colder than 2-3 weeks ago when it was well above average, even sea ice around Denmark now

http://www.smhi.se/oceanografi/istjanst/produkter/sstcolor.pdf 


Bradford on Avon, Wiltshire
35m ASL
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
18 February 2021 08:12:10

Jetstream strong across the Atlantic, dipping S before returning to the UK before resuming a more direct route to the UK Mon 22nd. The dip to the S repeats in that week, but there's a chaotic break up after Sat 27th with bits of jet anywhere and everywhere, mostly N of the UK, before regular service is resumed Sat 6th.


GFS shows LP in usual N Atlantic position with first SW-lies then W-lies for the UK until Sat 27th when a small LP runs SE and intensifies over France Mon 1st ushering in a large block of HP Ireland-Baltic Wed 3rd, briefly an E-ly regime but the HP slips back to the SW (end of run doesn't resemble yesterday's forecast at all!)


GEFS very mild to Thu 25th (less so in N) then and mostly continuing to decline to around seasonal norm through to Sat 6th but with wide spread of possibilities, only 2 or 3 runs suggesting significant cooling. Rather dry in E, less so in W esp NW later on (contradicts synoptics).


ECM like GFS but the HP establishes more locally over the UK rather than forming an elongated ridge


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Sevendust
18 February 2021 09:14:58

Just had a glance at latest ensembles are there is a cooling tread beyond 7 days time (25th)

Now looking like +13c being exceeded in UK in Feb is quite unlikely (or a best just for few hours),

The possibility of another cold pool returning into Northern Europe is currently about a third, so am trying to consider this differently and have just looked at the latest Baltic Sea temperatures and ice as that gives indication of surface cold, it has become much colder than 2-3 weeks ago when it was well above average, even sea ice around Denmark now

http://www.smhi.se/oceanografi/istjanst/produkter/sstcolor.pdf

Originally Posted by: Surrey John 


What?


It looks likely that London will hit 13'c or higher every day for a week from Saturday with 16'c possible

idj20
18 February 2021 09:55:45


Yes - here we go...that SSW is showing it’s hand in the models, and 2018 demonstrated well how March can deliver something memorable, even in these warmed times. Just need the jet amplification to rinse and repeat, which is likely. Anyone for a ride on Stealth? Might be rough but it will have some thrills and spills!!


Originally Posted by: BJBlake 



Trouble is, in my books a cold snap in March is about as welcome as a fart in a crowded lift while hearing someone coughing. 

All my thoughts and energy are now being reserved for looking out for the first bit of proper warm and dry weather, good enough to do gardening while in shorts and T shirt and some of the outputs actually fills me with some hope with that to mind.


Folkestone Harbour. 
doctormog
18 February 2021 10:18:50
The outlook does look on the milder side of average for the next week or more based on today's (and recent day's) output with a prevailing SWly influence. Unfortunately for much of that time it seems to be dominated by low pressure meaning mild, unsettled and often windy conditions rather than dry and sunny pleasant early spring weather.

As is usual in these situations the wettest conditions will be in more western areas with sheltered eastern parts seeing the best of any drier or brighter weather. All in all, nothing to noteworthy, too cold or exceptionally mild in the current output.
Quantum
18 February 2021 10:20:20

Pattern still consistent. Siberian high with big area of cold air expected to develop.



However the HP builds slightly further west now



Makes a northerly more likely than an easterly.


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
18 February 2021 10:25:19

Notice how the ensembles that do churn out cold runs in FI are going in full whack. -13C on the T850s shouldn't be that common. There is some serious cold air to tap into if we do indeed tap into it.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
18 February 2021 10:26:39

The 6Z has it very close indeed



2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Snow Hoper
18 February 2021 10:43:01
Both the GFS and Para have Easterlies. Just a case of not in the right position to advect the (proper) cold this way.
Going to war over religion is like killing each other to see who has the better imaginary friend.


Home : Thorndon, Suffolk.
Brian Gaze
18 February 2021 10:48:59

GFS6z is another sinker. 



 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

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