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ballamar
02 November 2022 23:45:54
GFS op run keeps uk on the warm side of any blocking - although with less daylight will begin to get cooler
BJBlake
03 November 2022 00:43:02

There has been some consistency between the last two GFS runs in sending warmth far north towards Svaalbard, which has the effect of forming a high pressure to our north-east. However, the heat does not quite make it to svaalbard on this last run and the high generated is centred therefore further south, which always puts us on the wam side. However, this is just a scenario - so I’ll take the hint at the potential for a blocking high to form, to cool things down a tad, and rest the Atlantic conveyor belt. The AMO is still in its warm phase, and blocking is always less certain under this multi-decadal period. We are though at a point in the decline of the warm period, so we might get a few more blocked winters by the time it enters the cool period, if not offset by the galloping warming attributed to Europe (heating twice as fast as the average in the world as a whole). 


Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
03 November 2022 08:11:20

WX temp summary; You may recognise this from 2 days ago - Europe as a whole still warm for the time of year with absolute values still quite high around coasts from Biscay past Spain and into the Med but not far inland. In week 2 a solid advance of cold air from the NE to the Russian border ; just to add that the cold patch over Russia is getting more intense as well as more widespread. Rain forecast also persisting;  mostly based in the Atlantic including Britain, small patch in Adriatic, moving N-wards in week 2; there is however an increase in the large dry area from N Spain up to the Baltic states so it now includes England (I'm being exact, not ignoring the rest of Britain). Italics show repeated text from yesterday.


GFS Op:A collection of LPs moving from mid-Atlantic NE-wards past Scotland through to Fri 11th (945mb S of Greenland Sat 5th and 955mb S of Iceland Thu 10th are the deepest) - then a N-S block of HP with Britain on its W side with S-lies by Sun 13th. This shuffles around in the general area of Britain but by Sat 19th is still there, 1035mb in SW approaches with NW-lies setting in.


ECM: similar to GFS but the track of the LPs is closer to Scotland and the HP block takes a couple of days longer to establish.


GEFS: temps near norm and periods of rain until Thu 10th, then dry in S & E and temps up to 8C above norm by Sun 13th with good ens agreement, descending chaotically with a little rain thereafter. Never quite dry in the N & W, and less good agreement between ens members.


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Ally Pally Snowman
03 November 2022 08:53:59

More exceptional warmth on the way. When will it end?


 



 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
David M Porter
03 November 2022 09:15:31


There has been some consistency between the last two GFS runs in sending warmth far north towards Svaalbard, which has the effect of forming a high pressure to our north-east. However, the heat does not quite make it to svaalbard on this last run and the high generated is centred therefore further south, which always puts us on the wam side. However, this is just a scenario - so I’ll take the hint at the potential for a blocking high to form, to cool things down a tad, and rest the Atlantic conveyor belt. The AMO is still in its warm phase, and blocking is always less certain under this multi-decadal period. We are though at a point in the decline of the warm period, so we might get a few more blocked winters by the time it enters the cool period, if not offset by the galloping warming attributed to Europe (heating twice as fast as the average in the world as a whole). 


Originally Posted by: BJBlake 


IIRC, there was a thread in the former climate forum on the AMO, which I think was linked to an article on the workings of the AMO that our own Gavin P had done on his own website some time back. It was quite an interesting read.


Back to the model output, and is still looks unsettled and mostly mild in the medium term. However, there are some growing suggestions from FI in some op runs of a change to a more settled period from around mid-November, which seems to tie in with the thoughts of the MetO and the BBC monthly outlooks.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
David M Porter
03 November 2022 09:24:26


What temperatures are we talking about from these charts if they were to come to fruition .Itis  all quite unreal for the time of the year...


Originally Posted by: cultman1 


One thing I learned about the British climate a long time ago is that sometimes, the weather pattern can flip quite suddenly and with little warning, at virtually any time of the year.


For example, if I had come onto this forum at any point during the mild and very wet November of 2009 and said that a month or so later, we would see the start of a major month-long freeze and the coldest spell of weather for about 30 years, I am pretty sure I would have been laughed right out of here. Granted, 2009 did not see the same almost continuous exceptional warmth that this year has seen, but I doubt that many, if any, people would have been expecting to see a spell of winter weather like that after the warmth of many previous winters over the preceding 20 years. Then we had 2010, which was even more unsual as that freeze started before November was even over.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Lionel Hutz
03 November 2022 09:45:23


More exceptional warmth on the way. When will it end?


 



 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


And it looks absolutely nailed on too - not a single line below the mean for nearly a week around the middle of the month. But as David says, looks like it will be quite settled so could be quite pleasant.


Lionel Hutz
Nr.Waterford , S E Ireland
68m ASL



Ally Pally Snowman
03 November 2022 09:47:25


What temperatures are we talking about from these charts if they were to come to fruition .Itis  all quite unreal for the time of the year...


Originally Posted by: cultman1 


Mid November looking like we could see 17c to 19c . 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Saint Snow
03 November 2022 10:13:26


 


And it looks absolutely nailed on too - not a single line below the mean for nearly a week around the middle of the month. But as David says, looks like it will be quite settled so could be quite pleasant.


Originally Posted by: Lionel Hutz 


 


With chilly/foggy nights perhaps.


A bit late for the 'mists and mellow fruitfulness' vibe, but it would be welcome nonetheless after a September and especially October that have felt very rainy and damp.



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Matty H
03 November 2022 10:45:41


More exceptional warmth on the way. When will it end?


 



 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


That is a think of absolutely unrivalled beauty 😍


David M Porter
03 November 2022 11:39:51


I would say the odd of a cold spell in the next few weeks are shortening quite rapidly now. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


There have been one or two GFS op runs in recent days in FI that have suggested a colder spell later on this month to be fair, Brian. We shall see.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Rob K
03 November 2022 12:28:30
Based on that chart surely 2022 will be the warmest CET year ever?
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Saint Snow
03 November 2022 12:44:01

Based on that chart surely 2022 will be the warmest CET year ever?

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


 


think that's already very short odds (baring a repeat of Dec 2010)



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Zubzero
03 November 2022 12:57:47

The run off above average temperature is relentless 


https://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?x=309&y=104&run=6&runpara=0&type=0&ext=1


Must be odds on the trend will continue into the start of Winter. I'd bet on not seeing an air frost imby before Christmas. 

ballamar
03 November 2022 15:46:17
What’s great about these warm temps is they will have little bearing on our winter. Just enjoy them, we are just as likely to get cold as we are warm winter even with these balmy temps forecast.
Hippydave
03 November 2022 17:12:18

GFS op continues the HP theme, with a mild/very mild start gradually cooling down to average with cool nights for some. Would be interesting seeing how clear the HP is - screams 'fog' to me, which would suppress temps if persistent enough.


There's also a couple of big cold shots through Scandinavia and E.Europe too. Doesn't look like threatening us but good to see anyway and may help further through the month from a coldie POV. 


 


 


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
GezM
  • GezM
  • Advanced Member
03 November 2022 17:20:04


GFS op continues the HP theme, with a mild/very mild start gradually cooling down to average with cool nights for some. Would be interesting seeing how clear the HP is - screams 'fog' to me, which would suppress temps if persistent enough.


There's also a couple of big cold shots through Scandinavia and E.Europe too. Doesn't look like threatening us but good to see anyway and may help further through the month from a coldie POV. 


 


 


Originally Posted by: Hippydave 


Was thinking the same. On the 12Z the GFS Ops run moves the HP right over the UK. Although uppers are high, I expect that we would start to see surface temperatures drop considerably as the weak sun is unable to penetrate mist, fog and low cloud.  


Living in St Albans, Herts (116m asl)
Working at Luton Airport, Beds (160m asl)
Taylor1740
03 November 2022 18:50:19
Mid month looking exceptionally warm, will it ever get cold again!?

Would be surprised just to even see a frost this Winter, nevermind snow!
NW Leeds - 150m amsl
White Meadows
03 November 2022 19:43:47

Control run on this evenings GFS keen on a mid month change to cold. Fairly well supported too.


https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/show_diagrams.php?model=gfs&lid=ENS&var=2&bw=1&geoid=49069


 


 

David M Porter
03 November 2022 20:57:00


The run off above average temperature is relentless 


https://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?x=309&y=104&run=6&runpara=0&type=0&ext=1


Must be odds on the trend will continue into the start of Winter. I'd bet on not seeing an air frost imby before Christmas. 


Originally Posted by: Zubzero 


Hmmm, Christmas is between seven and eight weeks away at the moment and, even with such a long spell of above average temperatures, I think it would be a bit of a gamble for anyone to predict that there won't be any air frosts before Christmas. Especially with the continuing prediction by the MetO of a change to a more settled and possibly colder spell around the middle of this month which is also now being suggested in FI in a few GFS op runs.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Crepuscular Ray
03 November 2022 21:02:53
Well it's 1 C here at 2100....with frost on my car. Likely to be an air frost here tonight!
Jerry
Edinburgh, in the frost hollow below Blackford Hill
Zubzero
04 November 2022 00:43:34


 


Hmmm, Christmas is between seven and eight weeks away at the moment and, even with such a long spell of above average temperatures, I think it would be a bit of a gamble for anyone to predict that there won't be any air frosts before Christmas. Especially with the continuing prediction by the MetO of a change to a more settled and possibly colder spell around the middle of this month which is also now being suggested in FI in a few GFS op runs.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


The meto have been predicting a change to  more settled and colder conditions for the past month in 15-30 day forecast it ,keeps getting pushed back. 


When was the last below average month? This year is on course to be the warmest ever recorded, imby its quite commen now to be no air frosts before Christmas. 


The run off above average temperatures will come to an end at some point but my guess is December will be yet another above average month. 

David M Porter
04 November 2022 07:54:42


 


The meto have been predicting a change to  more settled and colder conditions for the past month in 15-30 day forecast it ,keeps getting pushed back. 


When was the last below average month? This year is on course to be the warmest ever recorded, imby its quite commen now to be no air frosts before Christmas. 


The run off above average temperatures will come to an end at some point but my guess is December will be yet another above average month. 


Originally Posted by: Zubzero 


We'll just have to wait and see, won't we? From what I've read, I don't think the change that the MetO have been predicing to colder and drier weather has been pushed back a great deal (it was never forecast to come before the second week of November IIRC), and they have been consistent for the past week or so about this happening circa mid-November which is now supported by some model output in FI.


Wrt December, if the pattern that has dominated much of this year continues until the end of the year, then there is more than a fair chance that December will be above average too. However, given what the extended MetO and the BBC extended outlooks are saying plus what some FI model output is now suggesting, I would say this is now open to question to some degree anyway.


As I say, we will have to wait and see.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
DEW
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  • Advanced Member
04 November 2022 08:47:01

WX temp forecast resiling from the expansion of cold weather this morning; week 1 shows Europe with the above-average temps more widespread than yesterday, and although there are tiny patches of cold over mountains further West, the large area of solid cold over Russia has fragmented and withdrawn somewhat, albeit projecting something cooler in the direction of the Carpathians in week 2. AS for rainfall, there are two main patches, one on the Atlantic (week 1 including Britain and Norway, but then retreating NW-wards), the other in the Adriatic (moving to Turkey week 2), and perhaps some in S Spain as well.


GFS Op consistent with yesterday; LPs moving from northern mid-Atlantic NE-wards past Scotland until Fri 11th with strong SW-lies for Britain (LP deepest 970 mb Sun 4th W of Ireland, may include remnants of hurricane Martin and 960 mb S of Iceland Tue 8th) after which HP develops from the S, first as a N-S blocking ridge with S-lies for Britain, then by Wed 16th a large general area of HP which hangs around with some tendency to move N-wards until Sun 20th. (Frost or fog? My guess is for the former as the source of air has been mostly from the SE while the HP was setting up)


ECM like GFS to Fri 11th (has an extra deep LP near Iceland on Thu 11th) but after that the HP develops further to the E, over the near Continent, with strong SW-lies; dry in the SE, probably not dry in the NW.


GEFS like yesterday; rain occasionally heavy to Fri 11th, then drier in most places (N & W Scotland & NI excepted) until Mon 14th when it re-appears in some ens members; becoming abnormally warm around Sun 13th but then breaking into chaos (e.g in the SE by Sun 20th the spread of ens members is from +8C to -8C relative to the norm 0f 2C, day-night average and similar elsewhere).


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
ballamar
04 November 2022 12:28:11
Bit more clustering on as colder outlook towards later November. Think we could see some frost and fog with a below average week or 2 at the end of Autumn
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