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The Beast from the East
20 December 2023 09:36:06

I envy you - down here, the only interest is how many 10C+ days in a row we can get, or whether we might scrape a frost before everyone dies of old age. Current modelling from the MetO has 10 10C+ days in a row, with Christmas Day itself being a mere 3C above average (and the night leading into it is 7C above average)...

FWIW, the ECM's stratosphere forecast has continued to show less of a chance of a SSW than before, a trend over the past few days.

EDIT: I see the usual US cold plunge is going to happen next week. Ordinarily I'd be groaning, as it usually fires up the jet and brings mild crud for us, but as we already have that - maybe it'll flip things the other way!

http://wxmaps.org/pix/temp1.png 
 

Originally Posted by: Retron 



The December CET will definitely be above average so all 12 months of 2023 above average for the first time I think.  The only positive is we can save money on energy bills, but so depressing for those of us who remember what winter used to be like. For younger people I suppose this is just normal 
  
"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Downpour
20 December 2023 09:47:26

After looking at the MetO output https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/maps-and-charts/rainfall-radar-forecast-map  (see both rainfall and type of pptn options) I was going to compliment you on correctly calling mild for the south and some snow showers for the Highlands, despite some ad hominem remarks.

But you may have gone a little too far suggesting sunny for Christmas Day - it looks as if places south of the M4 will have to wait until late on in the day before the rain and likely the associated cloud move off to the south.

Originally Posted by: DEW 



Agreed, although a cameo from the sun is possible on 25 Dec, I think Boxing Day is looking the better of the two at this juncture. 
Chingford
London E4
147ft
johncs2016
20 December 2023 09:48:04

Having just looked at the big three 00Z models there is still some interest for us living up here

GFS shows it cold for the big day with a strong NW flow so Scotland could see some snow showers? There are cold shots further ahead too especially around Hogmanay

MetO shows a slider low across central England after Boxing Day with SE and E winds across Scotland, that's new!

As usual, ECM is more sensible but still very mobile! I think there are still opportunities for snow in the next two weeks especially the further north you are. It all looks very mobile and no long fetch SW winds which I loathe!
 

Originally Posted by: Crepuscular Ray 



On Friday morning, I will be travelling down to Hawick to spend Christmas with my family and then I will be returning home on the following Friday.

It would be great if we could get a bit of snow whilst I am there, especially on Christmas Day but that was just be an added bonus as there has been a number of occasions in recent years when we haven't even had as much as a single air frost during this trips (just to add insult to injury, there has even been the odd occasion when this has happened despite the odd air frost being recorded here in Edinburgh during those periods when I've not even been here to be able to witness that).

Looking at the latest model output, there is a big question mark over whether or not, it will even be cold over Christmas and when is the case, it usually ends up not being all that cold in the end.

In addition to that, the latest models also indicate that if it is cold, that is likely to happen with the winds coming from the NW. That could deliver snow showers to some parts of Scotland.

When it comes to any form of showery activity though, Edinburgh is largely sheltered from that by the Ochil Hills, and the Scottish Borders is even more sheltered from that by the hills in that local area.

This means that if it is cold over that period, it is more likely to just be dry where I am with that also being the case in Edinburgh. If I was to stick my neck out on that one, I would go for Christmas Day where I am to be a day with a lot of cloud and only occasional sunny intervals, but a dry day with temperatures of around 5°C which for this time of year, isn't actually all that cold.

Adding all of that together, I'm not really holding out any hope for even a technical white Christmas where I am, although I do think that there may well be other parts of Scotland which do end up getting a white Christmas.
 
The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
David M Porter
20 December 2023 09:50:08

The December CET will definitely be above average so all 12 months of 2023 above average for the first time I think.  The only positive is we can save money on energy bills, but so depressing for those of us who remember what winter used to be like. For younger people I suppose this is just normal 
  

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 



I'm not sure that July finished up above average? I think you are right about all the other months, though.
Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Retron
20 December 2023 09:52:08

I'm not sure that July finished up above average? I think you are right about all the other months, though.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


0.2 above:

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html 
Leysdown, north Kent
speckledjim
20 December 2023 09:54:01

The December CET will definitely be above average so all 12 months of 2023 above average for the first time I think.  The only positive is we can save money on energy bills, but so depressing for those of us who remember what winter used to be like. For younger people I suppose this is just normal 
  

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Pretty sure Brian posted something saying that it wasn't the first time?
Thorner, West Yorkshire


Journalism is organised gossip
David M Porter
20 December 2023 09:54:49

0.2 above:

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html 

Originally Posted by: Retron 



Thanks, Darren. Close to average I guess it was then. 👍
Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Brian Gaze
20 December 2023 09:56:30

I'm not sure that July finished up above average? I think you are right about all the other months, though.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 



It finished above the 61-90 by 0.2C. The monthly anomalies this year are:

1961-1990
Jan
1.4°C
Feb
2.7°C
Mar
1.4°C
Apr
0.8°C
May
1.4°C
Jun
2.9°C
Jul
0.2°C
Aug
0.6°C
Sep
3.4°C
Oct
1.6°C
Nov

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/cet.aspx 

 
Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Brian Gaze
20 December 2023 10:04:03
I've deleted a number of posts which were OT. The replies will also have gone. 
Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Crepuscular Ray
20 December 2023 10:06:53

On Friday morning, I will be travelling down to Hawick to spend Christmas with my family and then I will be returning home on the following Friday.

It would be great if we could get a bit of snow whilst I am there, especially on Christmas Day but that was just be an added bonus as there has been a number of occasions in recent years when we haven't even had as much as a single air frost during this trips (just to add insult to injury, there has even been the odd occasion when this has happened despite the odd air frost being recorded here in Edinburgh during those periods when I've not even been here to be able to witness that).

Looking at the latest model output, there is a big question mark over whether or not, it will even be cold over Christmas and when is the case, it usually ends up not being all that cold in the end.

In addition to that, the latest models also indicate that if it is cold, that is likely to happen with the winds coming from the NW. That could deliver snow showers to some parts of Scotland.

When it comes to any form of showery activity though, Edinburgh is largely sheltered from that by the Ochil Hills, and the Scottish Borders is even more sheltered from that by the hills in that local area.

This means that if it is cold over that period, it is more likely to just be dry where I am with that also being the case in Edinburgh. If I was to stick my neck out on that one, I would go for Christmas Day where I am to be a day with a lot of cloud and only occasional sunny intervals, but a dry day with temperatures of around 5°C which for this time of year, isn't actually all that cold.

Adding all of that together, I'm not really holding out any hope for even a technical white Christmas where I am, although I do think that there may well be other parts of Scotland which do end up getting a white Christmas.
 

Originally Posted by: johncs2016 



Enjoy your Borders Christmas John. I'll hold the fort in Edinburgh 😁
Jerry
Edinburgh, in the frost hollow below Blackford Hill
The Beast from the East
20 December 2023 10:11:43
GFS building a ridge post Xmas. At least we might get a frost!

 
"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Russwirral
20 December 2023 16:25:32
The slightest hint of something happening around 27th, has been on a few runs.  need the Jet to be a bit further south than it is though
ballamar
20 December 2023 16:41:46

The slightest hint of something happening around 27th, has been on a few runs.  need the Jet to be a bit further south than it is though

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 



looks interesting for 24 hours - too transient for now but as you say could change 
Brian Gaze
20 December 2023 18:37:05
I've just moved a number of posts to the Christmas weather thread.
Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
The Beast from the East
20 December 2023 19:03:43
I made the mistake of looking at GEM first! And its not even supported by its ens. 
Oh well. Looks like this thread will be very quiet for another week or so
"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Ally Pally Snowman
20 December 2023 19:11:42

I made the mistake of looking at GEM first! And its not even supported by its ens. 
Oh well. Looks like this thread will be very quiet for another week or so

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 



Hints also on the ECM this evening at day 10 of HLB to our NW. But its slim pickings atm.
 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Heavy Weather 2013
20 December 2023 20:45:50
Big shift in the last twelves hours in zonal wind forecasts

https://x.com/metjam_/status/1737565781351665962?s=46&t=0CzXil3QOYbo8W1abHQyVQ 

SSW in early January. Could make for some great model watching during the Christmas period.
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
doctormog
20 December 2023 20:50:04

Big shift in the last twelves hours in zonal wind forecasts

https://x.com/metjam_/status/1737565781351665962?s=46&t=0CzXil3QOYbo8W1abHQyVQ 

SSW in early January. Could make for some great model watching during the Christmas period.

Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 



That does seem like a big shift. Interesting.
Gandalf The White
20 December 2023 21:51:58

That does seem like a big shift. Interesting.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 



Yes, quite a marked shift.  You can see the forecast for each of the last 8 days here: https://charts.ecmwf.int/products/extended-zonal-mean-zonal-wind/overview/base_time?area=nh&base_time=202312200000 

Today’s update brings the ensemble mean briefly close to a reversal and below the 90th percentile.
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


David M Porter
20 December 2023 22:18:39

That does seem like a big shift. Interesting.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 



Indeed so, Michael.

IIRC, the weather pattern during mid-late December 2012 was broadly similar to what we have now, i.e unsettled and reasonably mild and this lasted until the early days of January 2013. I might be wrong, but my recollection is that there was a SSW of some sort during that January, and this played a notable part in altering the course of the rest of that winter.
Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Zubzero
20 December 2023 22:34:51
All I know is when the possibility of SSW event taking place in x weeks time is being discussed its a dire outlook for cold. 

Still slim pickings for a frost. https://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?x=306&y=111&run=12&runpara=0&type=3&ext=1  

Only hope is lack off data over the Christmas period causes the winds to reverse at 60* north and santa to tow the British Isles 500 miles north east. 
Downpour
20 December 2023 23:42:45

All I know is when the possibility of SSW event taking place in x weeks time is being discussed its a dire outlook for cold. 

Still slim pickings for a frost. https://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?x=306&y=111&run=12&runpara=0&type=3&ext=1  

Only hope is lack off data over the Christmas period causes the winds to reverse at 60* north and santa to tow the British Isles 500 miles north east. 

Originally Posted by: Zubzero 



Quite so. Meanwhile, the game is afoot for claiming the most springlike maxima over the mild or very mild Christmas period ahead. Is 14c possible? Could 15c be breached? The models are hinting at something rather notable in that regard. 
Chingford
London E4
147ft
Gandalf The White
21 December 2023 00:07:35
The GFS 18z op and the ensemble mean both continue the patttern of colder air gradually filtering south during Xmas Day. If the 18z is correct then it will be one of those days when the highest temperatures in the south occur during the night, with a steady decline from 11-12c to around 10c at dawn and to 6-8c by midnight. As it takes all day for the trough to clear through it looks like a pretty dull, overcast day for the Midlands south.

Scotland sees much colder conditions from early in the day and these spread south, so northern England dropping away to around 4-5c.
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


White Meadows
21 December 2023 02:53:27
Mid-long term prospects still looking quite drab for the UK coldies, mostly westerly or south westerly airflow, grey skies and occasional gales with heavy showers. 

If the eye candy doesn’t start showing its hand by new year then the chances of getting into another Groundhog Day January increases run to run. 
To be fair the last widespread Jan snowfall to memory was over 10 years ago. So hardly worth expecting anything other than more grey dreariness.

As Matty says, if Jan can’t deliver then roll on the lighter evenings and the smell of Spring. 
Retron
21 December 2023 03:52:10

Big shift in the last twelves hours in zonal wind forecasts.

Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


What he doesn't say in that X is that there was a big shift the other way two days before! Beware of taking a single run as gospel, even though it's very nice eye-candy...

I've been looking at those charts daily, and you can too - I've posted the link several times recently, but here it is again:

https://charts.ecmwf.int/products/extended-zonal-mean-zonal-wind?area=nh&base_time=202312200000 
Leysdown, north Kent
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