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Retron
29 December 2023 03:34:53

I for one treated the output from earlier in the week with a great deal of caution, for the reason of the reduction in data there was during Xmas Day and Boxing Day which Darren (Retron) and others rightly spoke about beforehand. I am fairly sure that others here did the same over Xmas.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Yes, it seems just like in the old days, the lack of data did its usual trick of making the models look "blockier" for a time - and even the ECM ensembles joined in, with their strat reversal on the 0z Boxing Day run and subsequent dialling back. Yesterday's EPS hiked the mean another couple of m/s, and the number of members showing a reversal at all has continued to decrease.

This reversal/slowdown is the main thing IMO that will effect a pattern change for us, so we really want that slowdown to be as strong as possible... it's a bit like the old pushing a rock up a hill analogy, the harder the shove you give it to start with the easier it is. Give it a weak shove and it'll just roll back down again.

Still, I guess it's comforting in a way that even with all the tools at our disposal, we still can't forecast even a week away with any great reliability in winter!
Leysdown, north Kent
marco 79
29 December 2023 04:19:26
Cats whisker away from a mini beast on the 0z, five days out. 
Home : Mid Leicestershire ...135m ASL
Retron
29 December 2023 06:33:44
This morning's ensemble watch - it's not good news for the chase, but I'll keep it going for one more day at least.

Truth be told, for London at least the GEFS charts now just look like a typical winter zonal setup...
https://ukwct.org.uk/weather/enswatch.jpg?29 

UserPostedImage
Leysdown, north Kent
CField
29 December 2023 07:20:06

UserPostedImageA mild return to work then pretty bog average so unforgettable start to 2024
 
Favourite snowstorm
Famous channel low
Dec 31st 1978
Hastings East Sussex
Foot of level snow severe drifting
Next day max temp -4 degrees Celsius
Ally Pally Snowman
29 December 2023 07:21:02
Both the GEM and ECM Ops offer some  hope day 9/10 . But the second week of January cold spell is on very shaky ground this morning. 
 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Tim A
29 December 2023 07:42:45
Frustrating model watching whilst the horrible wind continues outside.
Perhaps a small chance mid term of some cold weather under slacker conditions as per the GFS control and a number of other ensembles. 
​​​​​https://modeles16.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/runs/2023122900/gens-0-1-138.png 

Would fit in with the Met Office forecast of cold hard frosts in the North. But looking at the Ensembles overall not the favourite option, can we build on it. 
​​
Tim
NW Leeds
187m asl

 My PWS 
MRayner
29 December 2023 07:44:39
Interest for coldies  seems to permanently sit at day 8/9 🙄 
Location Whisky 🥃 country, Cragganmore ,Moray, 440 AMSL
doctormog
29 December 2023 08:11:59

Interest for coldies  seems to permanently sit at day 8/9 🙄 

Originally Posted by: MRayner 



The outlook is certainly not without interest for your location. Keep an eye on the signal of cold from the east around day 6 as it seems to be a growing trend (more so on the ensemble sets).
Gandalf The White
29 December 2023 08:14:47

Interest for coldies  seems to permanently sit at day 8/9 🙄 

Originally Posted by: MRayner 



As you know, that is true even if it’s snowing outside.

🤔😉
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
29 December 2023 08:18:04
WX charts show the large block of ultra cold weather presently localised over Scandinavia and N Russia flattening out over a presently mild Europe so that by week 2 freezing weather has spread SE-wards to the Balkans, Alps and Germany, with small patches even down to Spain. Britain and Atlantic fringes miss out; cooler but still under oceanic influence. Pptn in week 1 over Britain and most of N Europe except Scandinavia retreats in week 2 to the N Atlantic but the Mediterranean looks very wet.

GFS Op - remnants of Gerrit eventually pulling away E-wards to make room for new LP 975mb Irish Sea Sun 31st (FAX suggests that the associated frontal rain will move through on Sat) , part of which moves NW-wards towards Rockall, part splitting off and forming a centre over Germany by Wed 3rd. Pressure then rises over N Europe; on Fri 5th Britain is in a shallow trough between 1025mb Baltic  and the same off Portugal; the latter comes to dominate and is centred as a large anticyclone 1040mb England Mon 8th, staying around though moving S-wards and generating SW-lies for Scotland. The N-lies on its other side are kept well to the East of the N Sea. 

ECM  - similar to GFS to Fri 5th when the trough between the two areas of HP is deeper for Britain, and any recovery is sabotaged by a deep local LP appearing 975mb Hebrides Sun 7th, this moving into the N Sea and pulling in NE-lies. on Mon 8th.

GEFS - Rain for a week from Sat 30th, becoming drier later in most though not all ens members; temps not far from norm, maybe milder for New Year's Day in the S, cooler led by op & control around the 8th at which point the various ens members already diverging do so more markedly. By the end  op and control have switched to being very mild. Snow rows show the highest likelihood of snow for Thu 4th and that in the NE.
War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Whether Idle
29 December 2023 08:57:09
There seems to be huge amounts of scatter and uncertainty in model land and we're back to 144 being the edge of FI for a bit.  I suspect there could be some interesting surprises pop up in the modelling in a few days' time as we look to the surface conditions from Jan 9th.

The models are churning out a wide range of options from extreme warmth to snowy cold.  Place your bets for January - in my view the constant underachiever, and its difficult to see this altering in 2024.
Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Ally Pally Snowman
29 December 2023 08:59:21
ECM ensembles still look decent enough from the 6th . 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Gandalf The White
29 December 2023 09:08:45

There seems to be huge amounts of scatter and uncertainty in model land and we're back to 144 being the edge of FI for a bit.  I suspect there could be some interesting surprises pop up in the modelling in a few days' time as we look to the surface conditions from Jan 9th.

The models are churning out a wide range of options from extreme warmth to snowy cold.  Place your bets for January - in my view the constant underachiever, and its difficult to see this altering in 2024.

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 



Looking at the 00z GFS ensemble suite, there is a clear trend for 2m temperatures towards daytime maxima around 5c for my location.  Nothing especially cold but below normal, with some very cold options amongst the perturbations and a decent clustering around that coldish outlook.

https://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?x=308&y=114&run=0&runpara=0&type=3&ext=1 
 
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Joe Bloggs
29 December 2023 09:19:51
The EPS remain fairly cold this morning.

Lots of scatter, but there must be some absolute crackers amongst the ensemble set, some very cold runs in there. 

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/ens_image.php?geoid=48970&var=202&run=0&date=2023-12-29&model=ecm&member=ENS&bw=1 

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/ens_image.php?geoid=48970&var=201&run=0&date=2023-12-29&model=ecm&member=ENS&bw=1 

Mean surface temps of 0-2C so a cold set for Manchester at least. 


 

Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

Whether Idle
29 December 2023 09:30:14

Looking at the 00z GFS ensemble suite, there is a clear trend for 2m temperatures towards daytime maxima around 5c for my location.  Nothing especially cold but below normal, with some very cold options amongst the perturbations and a decent clustering around that coldish outlook.

https://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?x=308&y=114&run=0&runpara=0&type=3&ext=1 
 

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Notice the op at the top end later on though....
Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Polar Low
29 December 2023 10:05:19
Just had a look at the 0z ecm set at 500   some belters in there some very snowy I’d say on face value at 850 is a colder set than yesterdays 12z 
Also a few bring the cold  forward a little sooner no backdown from ecm just yet
https://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwfens_table.php?ext=1&x=&lat=51.5085&lon=-0.12574&ville=Londres 

 
UncleAlbert
29 December 2023 10:06:19

There seems to be huge amounts of scatter and uncertainty in model land and we're back to 144 being the edge of FI for a bit.  I suspect there could be some interesting surprises pop up in the modelling in a few days' time as we look to the surface conditions from Jan 9th.

The models are churning out a wide range of options from extreme warmth to snowy cold.  Place your bets for January - in my view the constant underachiever, and its difficult to see this altering in 2024.

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 



ECM op and ens offer the biggest interest this morning for cold fans with GEM op also giving a slight nod.  On your point about January you can't help feeling that if this mid January 'cold spell' does not leave it's ghostly form and become reality then February will be the next chance, at least for the South of the UK.  My reasoning is that since 1958 I have never seen serious cold (4 days +) actually commencing in the last 10 days of January.  Even 1963, when the cold was pretty entrenched in Europe anyway there was some slacking of the cold over the UK in this period.  I was born just after 1947 and that of course was a massive exception.



 
Rob K
29 December 2023 10:34:44
6Z GEFS looks very confused with a big empty hole of nothingness to the north of the UK by T192. No isobars between Scotland and Svalbard. Doesn’t look like any sort of chart we ever see in real life. 
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
jhall
29 December 2023 10:57:42

ECM op and ens offer the biggest interest this morning for cold fans with GEM op also giving a slight nod.  On your point about January you can't help feeling that if this mid January 'cold spell' does not leave it's ghostly form and become reality then February will be the next chance, at least for the South of the UK.  My reasoning is that since 1958 I have never seen serious cold (4 days +) actually commencing in the last 10 days of January.  Even 1963, when the cold was pretty entrenched in Europe anyway there was some slacking of the cold over the UK in this period.  I was born just after 1947 and that of course was a massive exception.

Originally Posted by: UncleAlbert 


1986?
 
Cranleigh, Surrey
White Meadows
29 December 2023 11:07:45

6Z GEFS looks very confused with a big empty hole of nothingness to the north of the UK by T192. No isobars between Scotland and Svalbard. Doesn’t look like any sort of chart we ever see in real life. 

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


That is odd. Too much data in the system perhaps. 
ballamar
29 December 2023 11:13:44
Blocked 6z op run decent for the south in about 10 days. Another take on the changes upcoming
tallyho_83
29 December 2023 11:25:36

6Z GEFS looks very confused with a big empty hole of nothingness to the north of the UK by T192. No isobars between Scotland and Svalbard. Doesn’t look like any sort of chart we ever see in real life. 

Originally Posted by: Rob K 



Yes looks like nothingness to our north between Scotland, Iceland, Norway and svalbard. But I see low developing over Azores. So you would expect HP to be to our north but instead it's no-where to be seen. Strange pattern.

https://wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=1&model=gfs&var=1&run=6&time=192&lid=OP&h=0&mv=0&tr=6#mapref 
Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Chunky Pea
29 December 2023 11:39:55

ECM op and ens offer the biggest interest this morning for cold fans with GEM op also giving a slight nod.  On your point about January you can't help feeling that if this mid January 'cold spell' does not leave it's ghostly form and become reality then February will be the next chance, at least for the South of the UK.  My reasoning is that since 1958 I have never seen serious cold (4 days +) actually commencing in the last 10 days of January.  Even 1963, when the cold was pretty entrenched in Europe anyway there was some slacking of the cold over the UK in this period.  I was born just after 1947 and that of course was a massive exception.



 

Originally Posted by: UncleAlbert 


The last few ECM runs just looked bizzare to me. All going for cold but in very convoluted, almost unrealistic way. 
Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
Brian Gaze
29 December 2023 11:57:16
GEFS 06Z update looks quite mixed, albeit not complete just yet.


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