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Hungry Tiger
Saturday, November 30, 2013 12:12:31 AM

Just looking at the last few posts - I've had a look at the GFS runs all the way through.


A cold spell in on the cards - but we don't know when. But the signals are there.


Something to bear in mind when we look at the December CET I think.


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Gooner
Saturday, November 30, 2013 12:56:20 AM


Porn.


That's porn, Gooner..


Originally Posted by: Gooner 



 


 



Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
Saturday, November 30, 2013 12:57:31 AM


So the Express was right after all!!


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


 


They were never doubted


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
Saturday, November 30, 2013 1:05:40 AM

http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/charts/gefs/gefsens850London0.png


Mixed bag from 18z


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Whether Idle
Saturday, November 30, 2013 6:29:19 AM
Arcus
Saturday, November 30, 2013 7:05:17 AM
Indeed, lots of scenarios on the table this morning. Anyone claiming to have called a cold spell correctly is jumping the gun somewhat. GEM gives us barely a glancing blow, and ends up with a BBQ special:
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rgem2402.gif 
Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
doctormog
Saturday, November 30, 2013 7:16:16 AM

Indeed, lots of scenarios on the table this morning. Anyone claiming to have called a cold spell correctly is jumping the gun somewhat. GEM gives us barely a glancing blow, and ends up with a BBQ special:
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rgem2402.gif 

Originally Posted by: Arcus 



A cold snap of some sort next weekend is still very likely IMO. There is a growing consensus that it will last around 3 days starting around Friday. This, allowing for the normal wobbles, has been modelled very consistently for days now by the ECM and GFS. Interestingly, as you mention Ben the GEM has never really been on board (not just this morning's run).
Whether Idle
Saturday, November 30, 2013 7:19:58 AM

Indeed, lots of scenarios on the table this morning. Anyone claiming to have called a cold spell correctly is jumping the gun somewhat. GEM gives us barely a glancing blow, and ends up with a BBQ special:
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rgem2402.gif 

Originally Posted by: doctormog 



A cold snap of some sort next weekend is still very likely IMO. There is a growing consensus that it will last around 3 days starting around Friday. This, allowing for the normal wobbles, has been modelled very consistently for days now by the ECM and GFS. Interestingly, as you mention Ben the GEM has never really been on board (not just this morning's run).

Originally Posted by: Arcus 


Depends on where you live Doc. In the south lands some models eradicate the cold. Time will tell.

Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
doctormog
Saturday, November 30, 2013 7:25:15 AM

Indeed, lots of scenarios on the table this morning. Anyone claiming to have called a cold spell correctly is jumping the gun somewhat. GEM gives us barely a glancing blow, and ends up with a BBQ special:
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rgem2402.gif 

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 



A cold snap of some sort next weekend is still very likely IMO. There is a growing consensus that it will last around 3 days starting around Friday. This, allowing for the normal wobbles, has been modelled very consistently for days now by the ECM and GFS. Interestingly, as you mention Ben the GEM has never really been on board (not just this morning's run).

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Depends on where you live Doc. In the south lands some models eradicate the cold. Time will tell.

Originally Posted by: Arcus 



You mean the GFS 00z op run has"gone off on one"? It could wll be right but at this range they could all be wrong. I'd be surprised to see the GFS op run scenarios come to fruition. If it appears on the 06z run I would take more note, but I don't expect it to do so.
Whether Idle
Saturday, November 30, 2013 7:29:04 AM

Indeed, lots of scenarios on the table this morning. Anyone claiming to have called a cold spell correctly is jumping the gun somewhat. GEM gives us barely a glancing blow, and ends up with a BBQ special:
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rgem2402.gif 

Originally Posted by: doctormog 



A cold snap of some sort next weekend is still very likely IMO. There is a growing consensus that it will last around 3 days starting around Friday. This, allowing for the normal wobbles, has been modelled very consistently for days now by the ECM and GFS. Interestingly, as you mention Ben the GEM has never really been on board (not just this morning's run).

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Depends on where you live Doc. In the south lands some models eradicate the cold. Time will tell.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 



You mean the GFS 00z op run has"gone off on one"? It could wll be right but at this range they could all be wrong. I'd be surprised to see the GFS op run scenarios come to fruition. If it appears on the 06z run I would take more note, but I don't expect it to do so.

Originally Posted by: Arcus 


No. I mean gem, GFS,last nights JMA, nav-gem (cough) are all putting an anticyclone close to or across the south, killing the northerly and shunting it east for the south.

Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
doctormog
Saturday, November 30, 2013 7:37:07 AM

Indeed, lots of scenarios on the table this morning. Anyone claiming to have called a cold spell correctly is jumping the gun somewhat. GEM gives us barely a glancing blow, and ends up with a BBQ special:
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rgem2402.gif 

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 



A cold snap of some sort next weekend is still very likely IMO. There is a growing consensus that it will last around 3 days starting around Friday. This, allowing for the normal wobbles, has been modelled very consistently for days now by the ECM and GFS. Interestingly, as you mention Ben the GEM has never really been on board (not just this morning's run).

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Depends on where you live Doc. In the south lands some models eradicate the cold. Time will tell.

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 



You mean the GFS 00z op run has"gone off on one"? It could wll be right but at this range they could all be wrong. I'd be surprised to see the GFS op run scenarios come to fruition. If it appears on the 06z run I would take more note, but I don't expect it to do so.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


No. I mean gem, GFS,last nights JMA, nav-gem (cough) are all putting an anticyclone close to or across the south, killing the northerly and shunting it east for the south.

Originally Posted by: Arcus 



Indeed however none of those, except the GFS has in the past few days shown cold weather reaching the south and to be honest I do not rate any of them apart from the GEM (or GFS), except for comedy value. 😁

You are totally right to be cautious as things are by no means certain in terms if getting a cold snap. I just wouldn't write it off when the ECM and UKMO models (the most reliable publicly available output at this range) are still supporting it (albeit that it is just outside the UKMO's time range).
Whether Idle
Saturday, November 30, 2013 7:40:18 AM
Agreed Doc. I'm not writing it off, just emphasising the ongoing uncertainty at this latitude at this time. I can understand your perspective.
Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Retron
Saturday, November 30, 2013 8:01:49 AM

Wow. Here's the 12z ECM ensemble from yesterday for Reading. Note the control run - it's cold, then it gets milder. So what, I hear you say. Well, the reason it becomes milder is because a trough runs SE'wards across the UK. Pressure then builds strongly to the NE and we end up with a Scandinavian High and easterlies. It's not a million miles away from the 0z operational at 240. Hopefully today's 0z ensembles will paint a similar picture!


Leysdown, north Kent
Whether Idle
Saturday, November 30, 2013 8:11:28 AM


Wow. Here's the 12z ECM ensemble from yesterday for Reading. Note the control run - it's cold, then it gets milder. So what, I hear you say. Well, the reason it becomes milder is because a trough runs SE'wards across the UK. Pressure then builds strongly to the NE and we end up with a Scandinavian High and easterlies. It's not a million miles away from the 0z operational at 240. Hopefully today's 0z ensembles will paint a similar picture!


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Worth keeping an eye on Darren.  Keep us posted please.   Plenty of medium and FI interest at the start of winter 13-14


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Chiltern Blizzard
Saturday, November 30, 2013 8:18:40 AM





Holy bartlett, you can see the -15C isotherm scraping shetland on the ECM. Its unfortunate it won't come off, but in my lifetime I don't think Ive actually ever seen a neg 15 before (I mean at 0 hours!). Last march came pretty dam close though. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 



It may have happened a few times but for the south at least January 1987 had t850s below -15°C I believe.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Yeh but I wasn't even a ball of cells in 1987 if


Originally Posted by: Jive Buddy 


What went wrong?....


Originally Posted by: Quantum 



Someone lost their berings? Flapper Blushing

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Cmon, don't I get any credit for mentioning the cold spell 9 days ago, despite the incessant referances to you know what. This is the NAVGEM all over again.   


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


But The cold spell is still in FI.... and then only for some of the country on some of the models, some of time..... If it actually comes, thet you may get credit 


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
Retron
Saturday, November 30, 2013 8:32:33 AM
http://oi44.tinypic.com/2mwzckw.jpg  The control is milder than that from the 12z. I'll post again later this morning when the full control output is available.


Leysdown, north Kent
Retron
Saturday, November 30, 2013 8:36:21 AM


Holy bartlett, you can see the -15C isotherm scraping shetland on the ECM. Its unfortunate it won't come off, but in my lifetime I don't think Ive actually ever seen a neg 15 before (I mean at 0 hours!). Last march came pretty dam close though. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


2005 saw it just the other side of the Channel. We had snowfall for 14 days in a row from that fantastic cold spell, but it was very, very borderline despite the cold uppers - the diurnal warming from the sun gave the snow covering a real hammering each day.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/archive/ra/2005/Rrea00220050228.gif


Leysdown, north Kent
GIBBY
Saturday, November 30, 2013 8:51:08 AM

Hi everyone and good morning. Here is my no frills text account of the midnight outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Saturday November 30th 2013.


All models continue to show High pressure in control of the UK weather for the next 3-4 days with a fine day today with plenty of sunshine but overall cloudy conditions developing from tonight with benign and quiet conditions lasting thereon until the middle of next week with temperatures close to average.


The GFS operational then shows winds increasing across the North on Wednesday and further South on Thursday. A band of rain will be moving South across the UK on Wednesday followed by another on Thursday/Friday with clearer and colder conditions reaching the North briefly with wintry showers in places. This dry and cold weather may reach the South too very briefly before it is swept away NE by Low pressure along with milder, wet and windier weather later next weekend. This then sets up a much more mobile pattern with details irrelevant at this range but the general theme would be wet and windy weather alternating with brief colder interludes with wintry showers across the North at times. Overall temperatures would return to average but maybe returning rather colder later.


UKMO this morning ends next week with cold weather plunging South on Friday with rain in the South clearing to showers of sleet and snow, albeit briefly and mostly across the North and coastal areas in the East and West next weekend with frosts at night and a cold and strong Northerly wind.


GEM today shows no more than a glancing blow from the cold weather next weekend across principally Northern and Eastern areas where wintry showers may occur for a time with frost at night. Further South and West changes will be very tempered and in any event the trend from the start of the new week is for all areas to become mild and rather cloudy with Southerly winds from the Canaries to embalm the UK in mild air as we move into next week, perhaps with some rain in the North and West.


NAVGEM shows a brief encounter with colder air next weekend preceded by some rain and a fresh West wind as a depression moves steadily East across the North. A day of wintry showers look possible before a brief ridge crosses East drying things up perhaps with a night frost or two next weekend with temperatures below average at that time.


ECM today shows the most coherent cold snap next weekend with a two to three day window from next Friday of cold NW then North winds with snow showers, appreciable over Northern hills likely for a period. A ridge of High pressure moving steadily SE to our SW does show the flow being moderated by milder air rounding the High and down across the UK on a NW flow by the start of the new week with rather cloudy and benign conditions returning for many away from the far East where it may well still feel cold and breezy at times perhaps with a few showers, mostly of rain by then.


The GFS Ensembles show that (leaving the operational run to one side as it looks very suspect this morning) the weather looks like staying generally close to average temperature wise as we move through the run. The cold snap though still present for the North and East makes little inroads over the South before SW winds and more changeable weather looks the favoured consensus between the members through the second half of the run. As mentioned with SW winds predominating later in the run and with High pressure likely to be to the SE it will be mild for many especially to the East of high ground with most of the rain towards the North and West.


The Jet Stream currently travelling East at high latitudes well to the North of the UK slowly sinks further South as we go through next week as High pressure tries to give way somewhat. However, after a brief lull a surge of strong jet energy is then sent across the Atlantic and across the British Isles later in the run pumping up the potential for some deep Atlantic depressions to our NW later in the run, borne out by some of GFS's output this morning.


In Summary there is still a period of quiet anticyclonic weather for most areas between now and Wednesday. However, all eyes are on events thereafter with potential for a cold plunge of air to occur over Britain next weekend albeit rather brief. The American models seem to want less to do with this and allows the South to escpae almost entirely while the North sees something of a glancing blow at colder weather for a time. The Euro models are more productive though with ECM leading the field in producing a 2-3 day window of very cold and wintry weather with snow showers and very sharp night frosts. Nevertheless, it looks nothing more than a brief affair with the Jet Stream shown to power up to our West later throwing the potential for the Atlantic to create some large depressions out to the NW with all areas looking favoured to come under their influence with spells of rain and showers along with occasional gales. Though technically mild towards the end of the period some colder injections could affect the North at times with wintry showers over the hills.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
stophe
Saturday, November 30, 2013 9:23:47 AM
gfs ooz for the bin this morning. Completely out of step with the ensembles, unless it's a trendsetter. Hat is standing by.
http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/two/ensembles/ 
doctormog
Saturday, November 30, 2013 9:36:37 AM

gfs ooz for the bin this morning. Completely out of step with the ensembles, unless it's a trendsetter. Hat is standing by.
http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/two/ensembles/ 

Originally Posted by: stophe 



If I am reading the ensemble data correctly that extra thick green line is actually the first half of the op run stretched out over the 384hr period and should be discounted totally (as a computing error) . The actual op run is shown correctly on a separate thick green line up until the end of the 7th of December, beyond that point the line stops.

If you want to see how the op run fits in with the ensemble data, it is shown correctly on the Metoecil charts, for example for Aberdeen

http://meteociel.com/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?ext=1&lat=57.2&lon=-2.3 
GIBBY
Saturday, November 30, 2013 9:57:44 AM


Well observed, I missed that one. I thought it was out of kilter hence my suggestion in my report.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
stophe
Saturday, November 30, 2013 10:16:03 AM

gfs ooz for the bin this morning. Completely out of step with the ensembles, unless it's a trendsetter. Hat is standing by.
http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/two/ensembles/ 

Originally Posted by: doctormog 



If I am reading the ensemble data correctly that extra thick green line is actually the first half of the op run stretched out over the 384hr period and should be discounted totally (as a computing error) . The actual op run is shown correctly on a separate thick green line up until the end of the 7th of December, beyond that point the line stops.

If you want to see how the op run fits in with the ensemble data, it is shown correctly on the Metoecil charts, for example for Aberdeen

http://meteociel.com/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?ext=1&lat=57.2&lon=-2.3 

Originally Posted by: stophe 



Good eyes doc. Hat is currently in the oven at 180 degrees for five minutes. 😃
Gooner
Saturday, November 30, 2013 10:28:10 AM

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn16817.png


A harsh frost for some next weekend


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


jan1987blizzard
Saturday, November 30, 2013 10:31:19 AM

6z GFS certainly better than the 0z GFS, more chance of longjevity of cold with that ridging into Greenland at 168.

Gooner
Saturday, November 30, 2013 10:34:45 AM

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013113006/gfsnh-0-186.png?6


Again different to the 0z


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


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