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Gooner
20 November 2014 00:03:37

First sign of cold on MOGREPS ;)

Originally Posted by: sam1879 


 


Caution re this interpretation being banded-around re MOGREPS, which has caused some bemusement having now discussed with UKMO colleagues: there's no such *definitive* cold signal as being described


 


^^^^^^^Not according to Fergie on NW^^^^^^^^^^


I should imagine he has a bit of inside info


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


sam1879
20 November 2014 00:28:28


 


 


Caution re this interpretation being banded-around re MOGREPS, which has caused some bemusement having now discussed with UKMO colleagues: there's no such *definitive* cold signal as being described


 


^^^^^^^Not according to Fergie on NW^^^^^^^^^^


I should imagine he has a bit of inside info


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


yea its picking up the longwave pattern into december


which is why I never elaborated on any details until I saw more sources other than twitter 


From a purely selfish point of view that may be no bad thing as I just want some mountain snow to get the boards back out


 

Quantum
20 November 2014 00:34:35

There has, to be fair, been quite impressive strat warming on the GFS at the 1mb-5mb level for a while now especially at round 324hr, it would correspond to a cold spell in the 2nd week of December if it appears at all.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
GIBBY
20 November 2014 08:38:13

HERE IS MY LATEST ANALYSIS FROM THE OUTPUTS OF THE WEATHER COMPUTER PREDICTION MODELS FOR TWO WEEKS FROM 8AM TODAY THURSDAY NOVEMBER 20TH 2014.


NEXT UPDATE FRIDAY NOVEMBER 21ST 08:00


THE CURRENT GENERAL SITUATION A slack airflow over the UK will strengthen somewhat as troughs of Low pressure move up from the SW later today, tonight and tomorrow.


MODELS-2 WEEK HEADLINE Slowly becoming windier and more changeable next week and beyond with rain or showers and strong winds at times moving down from the NW. Temperatures near or a little below average.


THE JET STREAM ENSEMBLE FORECAST The GFS Jet Stream Ensemble forecast shows the split in flow currently running East both to the North and South of the UK becoming ill defined and slack for a period early next week before it strengthens markedly close to Southern Britain later next week while maintaining it's tendency to divert both North and South around the mainland of Europe as the High pressure block over Eastern Europe persists.


GFS OPERATIONAL The GFS operational this morning shows a trend towards deep Low pressure gradually moving SE over the UK later next week setting up a spell of wet and very windy weather for all areas. Temperatures would be average at best and it will feel cold in the rain and wind. Later in the run the weather settles down somewhat as the Eastern European High makes a comeback in the form of a ridge stretching West across the UK from Scandinavia bringing cold and drier weather with some frost and patchy fog in the Easterly drift. Weak troughs coming up against the block could give a little rain at times still chiefly in the far West which may fall as snow over Northern high elevations.


THE GFS PARALLEL RUN The GFS Parallel run is broadly similar to the operational this morning through the first two thirds of the run but it brings an even colder Easterly flow for a short while later with a better orientated ridge from Scandinavia allowing East winds and wintry showers near the East coast before the power of the Atlantic ratchets up a major storm cell to the NW at the end with Westerly gales and spells of rain affecting all areas before the end of the run.


THE GFS ENSEMBLES Putting all the GFS members together the ensembles are in unity over bringing the deep Low pressure down across the UK later next week with all it's attendant wind and rain. However, the majority of members want nothing of an attack from cold to the East with the general consensus being a ridge from the SW on the backend of the departing depression to the SE before the Atlantic wins through with more deep depressions close to or over the UK and wind and rain for all in average temperatures to end the period.


UKMO UKMO today shows a very slack period next week as the early week front finally clears the SE. The air will be chilly and probably filled with a lot of mist, low cloud and fog with frost too for some which if persists could give some very cold days for a time otherwise the weather looks fairly benign at the end of run stage.


THE FAX CHARTS The Fax Charts show a marked complexity of the frontal system affecting the UK from late today until late Monday when it looks like finally clearing the SE. As a result there will be a zone of wet weather across the UK only very slowly clearing SE as the higher pressure and chilly air across the NW eventually makes it's way down to the SE at some point early next week.


GEM GEM this morning shows the quiet beginning to the week with the weekend trough only barely having cleared the Southeast early in the week before it moves back North at the same time as being injected by falling pressure from the West. This then strengthens the slack flow across the UK early in the week to much stronger one with eventual Westerly gales and heavy rain for many as on this run Low pressure is held furhter to the North than is shown by other output but meaning little difference in surface conditions to what is being shown by the others.


NAVGEM NAVGEM this morning makes a much cleaner break and clearance of the weekend trough with High pressure covering Southern Britain early in the week with bright days but frost and fog issues likely by night. Later in the week pressure falls from the NW slowly but only the North looks like being affected by wind and rain from Atlantic depressions while the South holds on to something of a ridge with dry and bright weather maintained rather longer as a result.


ECM ECM this morning shows a quiet start to next week as the trough over the SE decays at the start of the week leaving behind a rather cold and potentially frosty and foggy period before the Atlantic winds up by midweek with a deep Low heading SE just to the West of the UK with a strong and cold SE wind bringing rain in across principally Southern and Western areas and as that moves away and decays a new surge of Atlantic energy pushes more Atlantic troughs into the UK with attendant wind and rain especially in the West. Through all of the period the block of High pressure to the East of the UK over Eastern Europe is maintained.


THE ECM ENSEMBLES  The Ensemble run continues to show a deep trough lying from Southern Greenland through the West of the UK to Italy with cyclonic South or SW winds across the UK with spells of rain and showers for all likely in average tmperatures overall.


NOTABLE TREND CHANGES FROM PREVIOUS RUNS The trend still shows a downhill trend to wet and windy weather though it does look like there will be a lot of disruption to troughs and Low pressure, most likely over the UK as they move up against the persistent block of High pressure to the East.


MY THOUGHTS Though nothing very wintry of note is shown in the output today the synoptic pattern could hardly be described as boring as the High pressure block over Europe persists and plays havoc with the models in determining what to do with ever more powerful Atlantic depressions and fronts as we move through the next few weeks. At the current time they mostly all show and agree on the path of the first deep depression as it's programmed to drift down over or just to the West of the UK next week bringing wind, rain and potential gales to places. Once that moves away SE and fills as is currently shown is a window of opportunity for pressure to rise further to the North and NE of the UK and while nothing majorly is shown in this camp this morning look out for the possibility of that happening in future runs over the coming days because if it does I feel it could tilt the balance towards cold reaching our shores soon from the east. As it stands at the moment and bearing in mind we are by then in FI territory the general thrust of thought this morning lies with powering the Atlantic up into a frenzy under a strong Jet flow by then and delivering rain and gales over the UK with a parent and very deep low likely somewhere towards the North and NW. If however, and it is a big 'if' the block to the East proves strong enough the orientation of the second attack from the Atlantic in week 2 could be more favourable under slider Low pressure meaning we might begin to see something more wintry across the UK as we enter December. This is not a forecast from me though and I mention it only as I have seen this setup in many winter's past where projected and powerful storm systems from the Atlantic power up and even strengthen the block to the East. We will need Europe to cool down much more than it currently is though to bring any snow interest into any equation. However, as the ECM Ensembles testifty this morning having a Low pressure belt stretching between Southern Greenland and the UK to Italy with intense High pressure over Russia is not a bad place to be in as we enter December if it's cold weather your looking for later in the season.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
roger63
20 November 2014 08:49:24

All the mechanisms are there, just the cold air isnt.

I wonder if this will be another winter of slider lows. Whether theres cold air in them will be another question.

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


The models seem to have difficulty with slider lows.This  GFS 0h op has a slider LP around 240-252h followed by sustained HP to the east.However looking at the ENS this is very much an outlier with the majority going for continuing Atlantic control.

Polar Low
20 November 2014 08:56:16

Persistent and stubborn heights  to our n/e nice split Q and slowly the building blocks are taking place to our south


much different to last year big victory for the block await next knock down


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=240&mode=101&map=1&type=0&archive=0


 


 


 


 



 


Are all the mechanisms there? It looks to me that all the mechanisms for a westerly regime are there; the angular pattern is very similar to last year with cold shots in America, the NAO is neutral or positive while the AO is negative (although it is to go positive), and the daily express says we are due a very cold snowy winter which pretty much guarantees we arn't.  


Originally Posted by: Quantum 

Polar Low
20 November 2014 09:07:04

Thanks ever so much Martin.


 



HERE IS MY LATEST ANALYSIS FROM THE OUTPUTS OF THE WEATHER COMPUTER PREDICTION MODELS FOR TWO WEEKS FROM 8AM TODAY THURSDAY NOVEMBER 20TH 2014.


NEXT UPDATE FRIDAY NOVEMBER 21ST 08:00


THE CURRENT GENERAL SITUATION A slack airflow over the UK will strengthen somewhat as troughs of Low pressure move up from the SW later today, tonight and tomorrow.


MODELS-2 WEEK HEADLINE Slowly becoming windier and more changeable next week and beyond with rain or showers and strong winds at times moving down from the NW. Temperatures near or a little below average.


THE JET STREAM ENSEMBLE FORECAST The GFS Jet Stream Ensemble forecast shows the split in flow currently running East both to the North and South of the UK becoming ill defined and slack for a period early next week before it strengthens markedly close to Southern Britain later next week while maintaining it's tendency to divert both North and South around the mainland of Europe as the High pressure block over Eastern Europe persists.


GFS OPERATIONAL The GFS operational this morning shows a trend towards deep Low pressure gradually moving SE over the UK later next week setting up a spell of wet and very windy weather for all areas. Temperatures would be average at best and it will feel cold in the rain and wind. Later in the run the weather settles down somewhat as the Eastern European High makes a comeback in the form of a ridge stretching West across the UK from Scandinavia bringing cold and drier weather with some frost and patchy fog in the Easterly drift. Weak troughs coming up against the block could give a little rain at times still chiefly in the far West which may fall as snow over Northern high elevations.


THE GFS PARALLEL RUN The GFS Parallel run is broadly similar to the operational this morning through the first two thirds of the run but it brings an even colder Easterly flow for a short while later with a better orientated ridge from Scandinavia allowing East winds and wintry showers near the East coast before the power of the Atlantic ratchets up a major storm cell to the NW at the end with Westerly gales and spells of rain affecting all areas before the end of the run.


THE GFS ENSEMBLES Putting all the GFS members together the ensembles are in unity over bringing the deep Low pressure down across the UK later next week with all it's attendant wind and rain. However, the majority of members want nothing of an attack from cold to the East with the general consensus being a ridge from the SW on the backend of the departing depression to the SE before the Atlantic wins through with more deep depressions close to or over the UK and wind and rain for all in average temperatures to end the period.


UKMO UKMO today shows a very slack period next week as the early week front finally clears the SE. The air will be chilly and probably filled with a lot of mist, low cloud and fog with frost too for some which if persists could give some very cold days for a time otherwise the weather looks fairly benign at the end of run stage.


THE FAX CHARTS The Fax Charts show a marked complexity of the frontal system affecting the UK from late today until late Monday when it looks like finally clearing the SE. As a result there will be a zone of wet weather across the UK only very slowly clearing SE as the higher pressure and chilly air across the NW eventually makes it's way down to the SE at some point early next week.


GEM GEM this morning shows the quiet beginning to the week with the weekend trough only barely having cleared the Southeast early in the week before it moves back North at the same time as being injected by falling pressure from the West. This then strengthens the slack flow across the UK early in the week to much stronger one with eventual Westerly gales and heavy rain for many as on this run Low pressure is held furhter to the North than is shown by other output but meaning little difference in surface conditions to what is being shown by the others.


NAVGEM NAVGEM this morning makes a much cleaner break and clearance of the weekend trough with High pressure covering Southern Britain early in the week with bright days but frost and fog issues likely by night. Later in the week pressure falls from the NW slowly but only the North looks like being affected by wind and rain from Atlantic depressions while the South holds on to something of a ridge with dry and bright weather maintained rather longer as a result.


ECM ECM this morning shows a quiet start to next week as the trough over the SE decays at the start of the week leaving behind a rather cold and potentially frosty and foggy period before the Atlantic winds up by midweek with a deep Low heading SE just to the West of the UK with a strong and cold SE wind bringing rain in across principally Southern and Western areas and as that moves away and decays a new surge of Atlantic energy pushes more Atlantic troughs into the UK with attendant wind and rain especially in the West. Through all of the period the block of High pressure to the East of the UK over Eastern Europe is maintained.


THE ECM ENSEMBLES  The Ensemble run continues to show a deep trough lying from Southern Greenland through the West of the UK to Italy with cyclonic South or SW winds across the UK with spells of rain and showers for all likely in average tmperatures overall.


NOTABLE TREND CHANGES FROM PREVIOUS RUNS The trend still shows a downhill trend to wet and windy weather though it does look like there will be a lot of disruption to troughs and Low pressure, most likely over the UK as they move up against the persistent block of High pressure to the East.


MY THOUGHTS Though nothing very wintry of note is shown in the output today the synoptic pattern could hardly be described as boring as the High pressure block over Europe persists and plays havoc with the models in determining what to do with ever more powerful Atlantic depressions and fronts as we move through the next few weeks. At the current time they mostly all show and agree on the path of the first deep depression as it's programmed to drift down over or just to the West of the UK next week bringing wind, rain and potential gales to places. Once that moves away SE and fills as is currently shown is a window of opportunity for pressure to rise further to the North and NE of the UK and while nothing majorly is shown in this camp this morning look out for the possibility of that happening in future runs over the coming days because if it does I feel it could tilt the balance towards cold reaching our shores soon from the east. As it stands at the moment and bearing in mind we are by then in FI territory the general thrust of thought this morning lies with powering the Atlantic up into a frenzy under a strong Jet flow by then and delivering rain and gales over the UK with a parent and very deep low likely somewhere towards the North and NW. If however, and it is a big 'if' the block to the East proves strong enough the orientation of the second attack from the Atlantic in week 2 could be more favourable under slider Low pressure meaning we might begin to see something more wintry across the UK as we enter December. This is not a forecast from me though and I mention it only as I have seen this setup in many winter's past where projected and powerful storm systems from the Atlantic power up and even strengthen the block to the East. We will need Europe to cool down much more than it currently is though to bring any snow interest into any equation. However, as the ECM Ensembles testifty this morning having a Low pressure belt stretching between Southern Greenland and the UK to Italy with intense High pressure over Russia is not a bad place to be in as we enter December if it's cold weather your looking for later in the season.


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 

White Meadows
20 November 2014 09:39:19
I have a feeling the Azores high is going to dominate into the first half of December. That stubborn old beast.
David M Porter
20 November 2014 09:43:04

I have a feeling the Azores high is going to dominate into the first half of December. That stubborn old beast.

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


Assuming that happens, I only hope that it then doesn't give way to raging atlantic zonality for weeks on end from mid-December onwards, as happened last year. We'll just have to keep our eyes peeled to the models as that time approaches.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
White Meadows
20 November 2014 10:00:21


 


Assuming that happens, I only hope that it then doesn't give way to raging atlantic zonality for weeks on end from mid-December onwards, as happened last year. We'll just have to keep our eyes peeled to the models as that time approaches.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Yes, I'd rather have endless dry and mild, even dull mirky weather than persistent gales, heavy rain, storm after storm like last winter. It made going outside very unpleasant. 


With a little miracle we'll have a pattern switch in the next few weeks in time for Christmas. As many have alluded to, I think the key to this happening will start from rising pressure over NE America. 

SEMerc
20 November 2014 11:04:53


Some attempt on the GFS and GFSP to push the jet a little further south and introduce colder air on the back end of an LP. It seems pretty futile though when a ridge is waiting in the azors to cut it off. Basically its an unmitigated disaster for those that want cold.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Yep, I have to say we're basically 'Bransoned' for the forseeable.

Solar Cycles
20 November 2014 11:18:34
Indeed Brian but as your well aware the continent at this time of year can cool quite rapidly and if that low slides SE then there's a possibility of the cold over Russia backing Westwards, I would say though I think at this stage any cold pooling over Russia will stay in Russia for the next 14+ days at least.
Brian Gaze
20 November 2014 12:46:40

GEFS6z pretty consistent with recent suites:


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
yorkshirelad89
20 November 2014 12:56:19

Indeed Brian but as your well aware the continent at this time of year can cool quite rapidly and if that low slides SE then there's a possibility of the cold over Russia backing Westwards, I would say though I think at this stage any cold pooling over Russia will stay in Russia for the next 14+ days at least.

Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 


Agreed, look at how warm the USA was during October...


The pattern over Europe has been stagnant this November with the warm plume that we saw on Haloween still lingering. I remember back in 2009 at the start of December all indications were for a very mild month and then out of absolutely nowhere a rogue GFS run suggested high pressure building over the UK delivering WAA to the Arctic and then that set the tone for the rest of the winter.


I'm not saying that will happen again but all it could take is a reallignment of the Russian high to change the pattern.


In a week things can change over Europe dramtically, but El Nino winters usually see colder then average conditions in the latter part of the winter, so we may have to be patient.


Hull
Gavin P
20 November 2014 13:43:01

Hi all,


Here's today's video update; East or west? The battle continues;



Nothing cold for now but patterns remain of interest, IMO.


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
Quantum
20 November 2014 13:48:02

I know people think I can see cold patterns where non-exist, but I'm really struggling to see anything at all in the medium term. It could be worse, but really not by much if you want cold. The signals beyond the medium term are more promising, there is significant strat warming in the upper levels although it is displacing rather than destructive - I wouldn't call it a major SSW event but in any case there looks to be a chance of seeing something more interesting by the 2nd week of December. But until then you could get eye strain trying to find cold in the charts. When a single ensemble barely gets to the -5 line, that is an indication about how hopeless this all is.


Enjoy the pleasantly mild weather while it lasts.


 


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Maunder Minimum
20 November 2014 13:52:42


I know people think I can see cold patterns where non-exist, but I'm really struggling to see anything at all in the medium term. It could be worse, but really not by much if you want cold. The signals beyond the medium term are more promising, there is significant strat warming in the upper levels although it is displacing rather than destructive - I wouldn't call it a major SSW event but in any case there looks to be a chance of seeing something more interesting by the 2nd week of December. But until then you could get eye strain trying to find cold in the charts. When a single ensemble barely gets to the -5 line, that is an indication about how hopeless this all is.


Enjoy the pleasantly mild weather while it lasts.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


As a simple rule of thumb, for as long as the United States is having all the fun, we will get all the gunk.


Last winter saw the PV drop into Canada and the Great Lakes region - if that happens this winter, then we will have another mild, wet fest.


So look Stateside and pray that the cold abates there, so we can get a look-in.


New world order coming.
Brian Gaze
20 November 2014 14:20:44


I know people think I can see cold patterns where non-exist, but I'm really struggling to see anything at all in the medium term. It could be worse, but really not by much if you want cold. The signals beyond the medium term are more promising, there is significant strat warming in the upper levels although it is displacing rather than destructive - I wouldn't call it a major SSW event but in any case there looks to be a chance of seeing something more interesting by the 2nd week of December. But until then you could get eye strain trying to find cold in the charts. When a single ensemble barely gets to the -5 line, that is an indication about how hopeless this all is.


Enjoy the pleasantly mild weather while it lasts.


 


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


One thing we've learnt in recent years is you can virtually always find a punter on the forums saying strat warming is taking place or is about to take place. I'm not having a go at you at all, just making an observation. This is one of the reasons I'm unconvinced of its use as a generic forecasting tool. I am prepared to accept it is a factor which in some scenarios increases the risks of cold weather across the UK. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
yorkshirelad89
20 November 2014 14:25:23


 


One thing we've learnt in recent years is you can virtually always find a punter on the forums saying strat warming is taking place or is about to take place. I'm not having a go at you at all, just making an observation. This is one of the reasons I'm unconvinced of its use as a generic forecasting tool. I am prepared to accept it is a factor which in some scenarios increases the risks of cold weather across the UK. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Agreed


The problem with strat warming effects is that just because they are occuring doesn't mean it will affect the UK. Strat warming almost always leads to increased blocking in the winter months but where it falls is anyones guess. Hence it only increases the risk of cold.


Hull
Russwirral
20 November 2014 14:37:20

I think Brians Buzz post perfectly demonstrates our issue at the moment


 


https://briangaze.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/240_mslp850.png?w=530


 


When someone is getting cold - somewhere is will be getting warmed.  As it stands USA and Russia are getting cold, and we couldnt me more centrally placed in the region getting the warmth.


As good as blocking highs are when its cold.  They can also be obstructive when we want things to get cold.


some faraway beach
20 November 2014 14:41:58


 


One thing we've learnt in recent years is you can virtually always find a punter on the forums saying strat warming is taking place or is about to take place. I'm not having a go at you at all, just making an observation. This is one of the reasons I'm unconvinced of its use as a generic forecasting tool. I am prepared to accept it is a factor which in some scenarios increases the risks of cold weather across the UK. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


I think the problem is the sheer depth of the stratosphere. Isn't it something like 20 miles? You can get sudden warming at one level, but the effects still have to negotiate obstacles on several more levels on their journey down to us in the troposphere for the blocking etc. we're seeking to materialize.


I don't think anyone is being necessarily deluded or mendacious when they point to future strat warming events which fail to deliver for anyone, never mind the UK in particular. It's just that understanding and analysing the route that strat warmings might take after they occur requires a lot of specialized knowledge and, I think, that instinct you only get after many seasons of following these events in obsessive detail.


I'm certainly not one of those people, but there are one or two out there on the web who do seem to be aware of the uncertainties involved and who are definitely worth reading.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
Maunder Minimum
20 November 2014 15:21:20


I think Brians Buzz post perfectly demonstrates our issue at the moment


 


https://briangaze.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/240_mslp850.png?w=530


 


When someone is getting cold - somewhere is will be getting warmed.  As it stands USA and Russia are getting cold, and we couldnt me more centrally placed in the region getting the warmth.


As good as blocking highs are when its cold.  They can also be obstructive when we want things to get cold.


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


I will happily take the short term pain, if there is a long term reward. If the WAA up our flank were to build a solid Scandi HP for example... Unfortunately though, the extensive cold over the USA (lucky buggers) is likely to spoil things for us, since it will lead to ramped up cyclogenesis and a re-invigorated jet fired in our direction, diminishing any chance of a proper Scandi HP getting established.


I don't know why the US ends up getting all the gravy and we end up with the slops as usual. It is our turn damn it! Didn't the USA have enough fun last winter?


New world order coming.
JOHN NI
20 November 2014 16:07:55


 


I will happily take the short term pain, if there is a long term reward. If the WAA up our flank were to build a solid Scandi HP for example... Unfortunately though, the extensive cold over the USA (lucky buggers) is likely to spoil things for us, since it will lead to ramped up cyclogenesis and a re-invigorated jet fired in our direction, diminishing any chance of a proper Scandi HP getting established.


I don't know why the US ends up getting all the gravy and we end up with the slops as usual. It is our turn damn it! Didn't the USA have enough fun last winter?


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Err - something to do with the United States being a continental land mass and we're an island nation bathed in warm water....continental drift might help us in a few millenia.


John.
The orange County of Armagh.
Russwirral
20 November 2014 16:12:16


 


I will happily take the short term pain, if there is a long term reward. If the WAA up our flank were to build a solid Scandi HP for example... Unfortunately though, the extensive cold over the USA (lucky buggers) is likely to spoil things for us, since it will lead to ramped up cyclogenesis and a re-invigorated jet fired in our direction, diminishing any chance of a proper Scandi HP getting established.


I don't know why the US ends up getting all the gravy and we end up with the slops as usual. It is our turn damn it! Didn't the USA have enough fun last winter?


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


 


I would worry too much just yet.  the US is about to warm back up (compared to now) with southerly winds bathing a good portion of the US by next week.  So the situation as alot of people have already mentioned isnt exactly like last year.


 


http://expert-images.weatheronline.co.uk/daten/proficharts/en/2014/11/20/basis06/usus/tmp2/14112318_2006.gif


David M Porter
20 November 2014 16:25:11


 


 


I would worry too much just yet.  the US is about to warm back up (compared to now) with southerly winds bathing a good portion of the US by next week.  So the situation as alot of people have already mentioned isnt exactly like last year.


 


http://expert-images.weatheronline.co.uk/daten/proficharts/en/2014/11/20/basis06/usus/tmp2/14112318_2006.gif


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


Although many parts of the USA had a severe winter last year, I don't recall them getting pasted with snow and severe cold as early as last November though.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022

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