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warrenb
15 January 2015 09:37:40

Yes, people calling then end of the spell before it has started. ENS are the way forward, they were where it was first seen and that is where the end will be first seen, as as I don't go with the GFS ENS, I am with Darren and the ECM ENS.
No end in sight on the ECM ENS. Not terribly cold, but cold none the less.

I have feeling this is a first bite of the cherry anyway.


Liquidic3
15 January 2015 09:49:16

Looking at the short term (Friday into Saturday) - Parts of the NW & N England could see some snow distruption.


 


Looking quite decent for the hills too.


 


GFS

Saint Snow
15 January 2015 09:54:40


I don't think the charts are a downgrade at all more a moving around of weather systems that alter conditions at the surface.


Essentially a cold spell is coming but a severe cold spell wasn't really on the cards yesterday and still isn't, how long it lasts is still up for grabs.


My approach is to divide the spell into 3 and concentrate on each at a time.


1. The weekend north westerly and where snow falls as features move south, west looks best here and Wales best of all.


2. The sliders early next week, far to early to predict any snow locations so don't even bother but will make for tense model watching and plenty of IMBY posts as some get rain, some get snow and some (probably me) stays dry.


3. Later next week on beyond, what happens after the sliders? Easterly or back to zonality? Again far to early to tell but I reckon the MetO favour a return to zonality but only by a short margin.


Whichever way you look at it it's better than a 10 day Bartlett!!!


Andy


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


 


Top post - and the best way of looking at it.


I think we've all experienced the gutting disappointment of seeing a good cold & snowy spell showing on the NWP, then downgrading. Similarly, we've all seen a cold spell develop, but our own little patch miss out on the snowy fun & games (whether through getting rain or it being dry)


By splitting how this is likely to pan out into the different meteorological 'acts', it's useful to assess how likely one is to partake for each stage.


I'm hoping to benefit from the first two, then look for a bit of a freeze to preserve the snow cover. I do hope, however, that as many people as possible throughout the country get to see good falls of snow



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
The Beast from the East
15 January 2015 10:01:20

http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/index.php


LOL at the Control. looks cold but dry later on in the period


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Brian Gaze
15 January 2015 10:03:19


 


LOL


Always the optimist


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


It's best to ignore 'pessimists' and 'optimists' because by implication they are more likely to see the outcome they want. Remaining objective is one of the most difficult tasks. More so than reading the numerical output.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
The Beast from the East
15 January 2015 10:03:37

http://modeles2.meteociel.fr/modeles_gfs/runs/2015011506/51-574.GIF?15-6


Chance of some snow saturday am. Perhaps my long wait will come to an end


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Brian Gaze
15 January 2015 10:10:06

Rain / snow extent into Tuesday morning probably close to the MetO / IanF tweet earlier:



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Quantum
15 January 2015 10:20:03


 


It's still called "lake effect" snow here in the UK, FWIW - it's a recognised term for it.


(I was first aware of the term being used regarding the UK in the 80s following some media reports about 87, which was a classic example of a couple of feet of "lake effect" snow here, but by the 90s its use was widespread on the likes of usw.)


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Yeh this is what I thought, I'm not sure exactly what I said wrong.


I'd be happy to be corrected guys, I'm just confused as to my mistake. Obviously lake effect is notorious in the US because of the colder air which can produce far greater accumulations. That being said there was a thames streamer in 2010 that was a very US style lake effect band, courtesy of very cold air imported from the continent. I think it dropped over a foot of snow which is standard in the lakes. 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
warrenb
15 January 2015 10:28:54


http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/index.php


LOL at the Control. looks cold but dry later on in the period


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


 


Interestingly it was the control that first went with this cold spell.


2 clusters that I can see, and majority remain cold.


Gooner
15 January 2015 10:35:49

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015011506/gfsnh-1-186.png?6


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015011506/gfsnh-0-186.png?6


We cant complain about this , no doubt some will


Think back 12 months


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Quantum
15 January 2015 10:42:50

Despite the super -5 uppers it looks all to be snow at ~132 because temps are subzero, in the UK its rare for subzero temps to give rain, and usually only happens ahead of warm fronts. 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Charmhills
15 January 2015 10:45:31

GFS 06z fi just looks very cold and frosty with the odd flurry down the east coast.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Gooner
15 January 2015 10:47:08


GFS 06z fi just looks very cold and frosty with the odd flurry down the east coast.


Originally Posted by: Charmhills 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn24017.gif


Right out to day 10


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Joe Bloggs
15 January 2015 10:49:53


Rain / snow extent into Tuesday morning probably close to the MetO / IanF tweet earlier:



Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


That chart MUST be wrong, surely??!


 


;-)



Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

Matty H
15 January 2015 10:53:30


 


That chart MUST be wrong, surely??!


 


;-)


Originally Posted by: Joe Bloggs 


It was for earlier this week, so yeah, good chance


Saint Snow
15 January 2015 10:54:19

Nice looking fax for Sunday





Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
moomin75
15 January 2015 11:01:09


 


It's best to ignore 'pessimists' and 'optimists' because by implication they are more likely to see the outcome they want. Remaining objective is one of the most difficult tasks. More so than reading the numerical output.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

I'm not really being a pessimist Brian....but it's a case of once bitten twice shy with me.


The charts are so much better to look at than last year, but as you have intimated, it's extremely marginal for many.


In my view (and it's just an educated guess more than anything), next week will be seasonal for most, but away from favoured areas north of the midlands, there will be very little in the way of wintry precipitation.


However, with my CET "guess" for January being the lowest of the lot, and the fact I mentioned that I felt the middle of January would be much colder than average, I'm not too disappointed at what is being modelled.


I guess as has been said many times, get the cold in, which tends to prove stubborn to shift, and then worry about the semantics of what may happen next.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Gooner
15 January 2015 11:02:51


I'm  a pessimist Brian....but it's a case of once bitten twice shy with me.


The charts are so much better to look at than last year, but as you have intimated, it's extremely marginal for many.


In my view (and it's just an educated guess more than anything), next week will be seasonal for most, but away from favoured areas north of the midlands, there will be very little in the way of wintry precipitation.


However, with my CET "guess" for January being the lowest of the lot, and the fact I mentioned that I felt the middle of January would be much colder than average, I'm not too disappointed at what is being modelled.


I guess as has been said many times, get the cold in, which tends to prove stubborn to shift, and then worry about the semantics of what may happen next.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Edited for you.


 


Your honesty is admired


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


snowjoke111
15 January 2015 11:08:10


I'm not really being a pessimist Brian....but it's a case of once bitten twice shy with me.


The charts are so much better to look at than last year, but as you have intimated, it's extremely marginal for many.


In my view (and it's just an educated guess more than anything), next week will be seasonal for most, but away from favoured areas north of the midlands, there will be very little in the way of wintry precipitation.


However, with my CET "guess" for January being the lowest of the lot, and the fact I mentioned that I felt the middle of January would be much colder than average, I'm not too disappointed at what is being modelled.


I guess as has been said many times, get the cold in, which tends to prove stubborn to shift, and then worry about the semantics of what may happen next.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


But there has already been snow in the south. A snow covering near Salisbury

tallyho_83
15 January 2015 11:14:56


A bit cold over Scotland during the day!? Perhaps that's just over the snow covered hills and mountains!? - A long way off BUT


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Retron
15 January 2015 11:17:40
This morning's 0z ECM control run shows a Scandinavian High setup with the -10C 850 line moving in at T+264, then the deep cold air stays around for many until T+324 - although by then it's leaving Scotland. It's accompanied by NE'lies and it's no surprise that SE England especially is shown to have snow from it. Of course, that's so far out it's purely for interest's sake.

It's actually the snowiest control run yet this winter, with the majority of the UK already having seen snow by T+96.

Needless to say this isn't a forecast as those charts are notorious, especially given the borderline nature of the cold spell for many of us! That said, at least it's being shown... it's more interesting than last year by a long way!


Leysdown, north Kent
GlenH
15 January 2015 11:27:49



A bit cold over Scotland during the day!? Perhaps that's just over the snow covered hills and mountains!? - A long way off BUT


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


 


 


GFS has Scotland under cloudless high pressure and deep snow cover at that point, so I would suggest -15C is quite feasible in highland valleys, as the cold air sinks. After all, much colder temperatures have occurred in those locations under similar conditions.

Gary L
15 January 2015 11:29:35


 


That chart MUST be wrong, surely??!


 


;-)


Originally Posted by: Joe Bloggs 


 


I follow him (Ian F) but can't seem to find the tweet?

Maunder Minimum
15 January 2015 11:37:45


Nice looking fax for Sunday



 


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Yes, a fax chart to gladden the old ticker. How often do we see an Icelandic HP cell in January? Not a lot, as PD would say.


New world order coming.
Retron
15 January 2015 11:46:06

The extended 0z ECM ensembles for London are now available - yesterday's 12z at top, 0z at the bottom.


The only noteably change is in the far reaches of FI, where rather more members than yesterday are in the milder cluster. As a result the mean is dragged upwards a bit.



Leysdown, north Kent

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