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Jive Buddy
08 January 2016 11:55:05

We've had the following cascaded down to us for Emergency Response preparedness:


"The Met Office have issued a Cold Weather Alert for the UK for next week. It's not expected to affect us in Kent & Sussex until Tuesday"


Make of that what you will


It's not over, until the fat Scandy sinks.....

Location: St. Mary Cray, S.E. London border with Kent.
picturesareme
08 January 2016 11:56:53


 


 


4 of those weeks were exceptional.  We are now entering a run of more seasonal weather and there is nothing in the model output to suggest that a return to December's exceptional warmth is on the cards.   With more normal weather patterns there is always a greater likelihood of some colder than usual weather in the south as well.

Also noting the long term seasonal expectation from the MetO and others that February will likely be the coldest month this wintejw.


Originally Posted by: Essan 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?code=4&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0


 

Rob K
08 January 2016 11:58:24


We've had the following cascaded down to us for Emergency Response preparedness:


"The Met Office have issued a Cold Weather Alert for the UK for next week. It's not expected to affect us in Kent & Sussex until Tuesday"


Make of that what you will


Originally Posted by: Jive Buddy 


 


To be fair the criteria for the Cold Weather Alerts are not exactly stringent for southern softy locations. Basically it just means you might be able to leave your milk on the doorstep all day and have a 50% chance it won't go off.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Quantum
08 January 2016 11:59:13

Both ECM and GFS are mild outlirs in their suite. More runs are needed. UKMO is very different to the other runs, I suggest waiting until the 12Z set; the models are all over the place today. 


Still, I advise people to ignore any solutions that are unrealistic including dart board lows, or LPs on very wierd tracks. At the end of the day there are only really two options, mild or cold. Inbetweenie situs are not realistic.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Nordic Snowman
08 January 2016 12:03:26


We've had the following cascaded down to us for Emergency Response preparedness:


"The Met Office have issued a Cold Weather Alert for the UK for next week. It's not expected to affect us in Kent & Sussex until Tuesday"


Make of that what you will


Originally Posted by: Jive Buddy 


In my opinion only, I really do think that situations like these are really playing catch-up.


Before the internet, many people actually watched tv weather and listened to the radio. Even the printed media raised eyebrows. Teletext! Weather for farmers! Long range telephone forecasts! LOL - I used to tune in, phone, scan and seek every bit of detail as possible in my younger days but the reality is this: all of the above is simply out-of-date.


I have not actually watched a tv weather broadcast for a decade!!! Waste of time. Poor graphics, out-of-date and too generalised. Maybe they serve a purpose for the casual person who wants to know if it will be wet or dry today/tomorrow.


Bjorli, Norway

Website 
Weathermac
08 January 2016 12:09:45


 


I take full resposibility Mike. The rot started to set in during the 18z GFS run. Just a couple of hours after my return. I shall now go back into hiding for a while. Upgrades will soon follow.  


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


See you on 1st march then Steve please

Rob K
08 January 2016 12:10:32
Ian F's tweets in past half hour...

"W COUNTRY UPDATE So, strong evidence continues for cold weather into mid nxt week. Longevity unsure but current thoughts are for conditions to stay cold into the nxt weekend & poss early the following week. Weak signal for earlier cessation. Airmass won't be intrinsically that cold: combined w other issues, this means awkward f'cast mix of varying snow levels"
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
SEMerc
08 January 2016 12:11:03


 


This has echoes of the 2001 fiasco. A number of reputable independents quoted this morning in the press are going for a significant cold spell. The Met Office may well come out on top again like they did back then.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


C'mon, Brian, it's just a wobble.


idj20
08 January 2016 12:12:19

It does seem that once (or rather, if) the cold air containing 850's just borderline enough for snow production does eventually arrive at this end of the UK at the end of next week, it'll quickly get brushed aside by default maritime south westerly airflow.
  The northern contingence should do well snow-wise out of this cold spell, while the best us southerner can hope for is a good few days of sunny days and frosty nights to dry things up.  Best quit while I'm behind and just bank that.
  I reckon there'll be a "transitional" snowfall event later on down the line (next weekend?) should a warm front try and move back in from the Atlantic and run onto the cold air sitting over the UK. That can sometimes provide the goods snow-wise but it's not really the "holy grail" of wintry weather we are looking for as they tend to be short lived and over high ground before the mild air eventually takes over making it all misty and murky in the end.


Folkestone Harbour. 
Quantum
08 January 2016 12:17:59

One thing to bare in mind, this thing:



has tropical characteristics, note is is fairly symmetrical, and with a well defined eye. Currently it is not tropical (note the cold front); however if this does become a cyclone this could really complicate things. Cyclones are very efficient transporters of heat to the northern latitudes, and it will depend on the exact tack whether it acts to increase WAA towards greenland or it causes CAA off canada in its wake.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Gary L
08 January 2016 12:20:06

A bit more support again from the 06z ensembles of an early end to the cold spell. The op and control going warmer quickly...still plenty of support for a prolonged cold spell, so hopefully the 12z runs from all models give us some clarity.


 


 

Darren S
08 January 2016 12:20:22


 


A number of reputable independents quoted this morning in the press are going for a significant cold spell. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


I hope you're not including James Madden, or a certain parliamentary party leader's brother in that statement! 


Darren
Crowthorne, Berks (87m asl)
South Berks Winter Snow Depth Totals:
2023/24 0 cm; 2022/23 7 cm; 2021/22 1 cm; 2020/21 13 cm; 2019/20 0 cm; 2018/19 14 cm; 2017/18 23 cm; 2016/17 0 cm; 2015/16 0.5 cm; 2014/15 3.5 cm; 2013/14 0 cm; 2012/13 22 cm; 2011/12 7 cm; 2010/11 6 cm; 2009/10 51 cm
Robertski
08 January 2016 12:30:10


 


 


To be fair the criteria for the Cold Weather Alerts are not exactly stringent for southern softy locations. Basically it just means you might be able to leave your milk on the doorstep all day and have a 50% chance it won't go off.


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


 


Arcus
08 January 2016 12:31:06


has tropical characteristics, note is is fairly symmetrical, and with a well defined eye. Currently it is not tropical (note the cold front); however if this does become a cyclone this could really complicate things. Cyclones are very efficient transporters of heat to the northern latitudes, and it will depend on the exact tack whether it acts to increase WAA towards greenland or it causes CAA off canada in its wake.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Current thinking from NOAA gives 30% chance on cyclone formation with some sub-tropical characteristics. Projected track out to 5 days:


 


 


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
marting
08 January 2016 12:38:04

Looks to me like the 06z GFS ensemble was better than the 0z, so are we looking at improving as the day goes on again? Morning wobble?


Time will tell. Looking a lot colder overall next week, so nie to have some options.


Martin


Martin
Greasby, Wirral.
Retron
08 January 2016 12:43:36

FWIW (which isn't much given all the uncertainties around), the ECM control this morning brings SW'lies across the UK by 204, then brings in a mixture of southerlies and SW'lies for the rest of the run (to 360), with some exceptionally mild conditions by the end.


 


Leysdown, north Kent
szs
08 January 2016 12:50:48

Wouldnt be suprised at all if high pressure was to build to the north n/east at t120 t144 on tomorrows gfs runs

John p
08 January 2016 13:02:17


FWIW (which isn't much given all the uncertainties around), the ECM control this morning brings SW'lies across the UK by 204, then brings in a mixture of southerlies and SW'lies for the rest of the run (to 360), with some exceptionally mild conditions by the end.


 


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Sometimes Darren....it's OK not to share.


Now I'm depressed.


;-)


Camberley, Surrey
some faraway beach
08 January 2016 13:10:00


 


 


The second part is important, of course, but as for the first, as far as I know the models don't care what time of year it is or where a particular low pressure is, and whether that is usual or unusual. They just take the starting point in the atmosphere of temperature, wind speed, pressure etc etc and apply the same physical interactions as they do on every run. The idea that models should struggle with "unusual" pressure patterns makes no more sense to me than the idea that a calculator should struggle with particular numbers.


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


It might be that at certain times of the year or in certain patterns you need more data and greater refinement to be able to calculate the outcome correctly.


A regularly defined low in an otherwise calm atmosphere could be modelled with a pocket calculator, but the current set-up, which is spawning everything from Azores lows to Arctic highs, is presumably the result of unusual complexity, and hence needs something like the number of data points and calculations that result in the ECM op not emerging until a good hour after the other models.


I am purely guessing here though.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
idj20
08 January 2016 13:16:38


 


 


To be fair the criteria for the Cold Weather Alerts are not exactly stringent for southern softy locations. Basically it just means you might be able to leave your milk on the doorstep all day and have a 50% chance it won't get stolen.


Originally Posted by: Rob K 



Fixed that taking into account my location.  


Folkestone Harbour. 
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
08 January 2016 13:34:16




Fixed that taking into account my location.  


Originally Posted by: idj20 


Chavs and scroats don't step outside when it's cold


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Sinky1970
08 January 2016 13:40:13
Don't know what thread this belongs in, but i thought some might find it interesting:-

http://www.neforum2.co.uk/ferryhillweather/bonacina.html 
Phil24
08 January 2016 14:04:51
Blimey, I'm no weather expert, but you guys need to take a deep breath. Chasing every flipping model is ludicrous. It is going to get colder next week, pretty much nailed on now, for how long, probably until the weekend, after that no one has a clue. The trend is moving slowly into the direction of cold. I have no doubt that there will be a few mild blips on the way, but nothing like past weeks and the final outcome is anyones guess but methinks it will be leaning towards cold if not extremely cold.

Enjoy whats coming especially those living a little further north than the M4 (thats not to say that might not change in favour of some deeper cold forcing its way further south).

It is winter, our weather is quite predictable, that is, you can't predict anything past 5 days.

Russwirral
08 January 2016 14:10:37

very apt by Fergie


 


https://twitter.com/fergieweather/status/685450638667460609


Jeff
  • Jeff
  • Advanced Member
08 January 2016 14:13:19


 


Current thinking from NOAA gives 30% chance on cyclone formation with some sub-tropical characteristics. Projected track out to 5 days:


 


 


Originally Posted by: Arcus 

so, assuming this is the low which is creating havoc with all the models in five or so days' time,  may or may not become a tropical cyclone? However,  I think the key aspect to this important observation is that the guys from NOAA, whom spend all their time expertly tracking and monitoring these disturbances, think it's not going anywhere near our latitudes, never mind the UK?


On the East/West Sussex Border
70m ASL

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