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Gandalf The White
15 January 2017 19:14:16

Could you get much more of a long fetch south westerly than this???? Blasting right through to Western Siberia.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 

">http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1921.gif


In reality it's a westerly flow as far as eastern Poland, which is only a couple of thousand miles from Siberia. 


 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2017011512/ECH0-192.GIF?15-0


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


doctormog
15 January 2017 19:17:20
Please stay on topic. Writing off wintry weather based on the volatile individual runs is as nonsensical as claiming a cold spell when a couple of random cold runs with different pattern appear at a few days out.

The only line to stick to here Kieran is the staying on topic and adhering to the conpde of conduct one. I do not like the insinuation that when someone posts some melodramatic conjecture and is questioned it is suddenly jumped on as a cold bias. No-one I can see is claiming the current outlook is wintry, some are correctly saying it is volatile.

Please do not insult us by suggesting that the only acceptable posts are ones that favour cold.
moomin75
15 January 2017 19:32:58

Please stay on topic. Writing off wintry weather based on the volatile individual runs is as nonsensical as claiming a cold spell when a couple of random cold runs with different pattern appear at a few days out.

The only line to stick to here Kieran is the staying on topic and adhering to the conpde of conduct one. I do not like the insinuation that when someone posts some melodramatic conjecture and is questioned it is suddenly jumped on as a cold bias. No-one I can see is claiming the current outlook is wintry, some are correctly saying it is volatile.

Please do not insult us by suggesting that the only acceptable posts are ones that favour cold.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Point taken and understood.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
sunnyramsgate
15 January 2017 19:39:00
So Coldish in the SE for best part of the week........
Whether Idle
15 January 2017 19:57:53

So Coldish in the SE for best part of the week........

Originally Posted by: sunnyramsgate 


Indeed. 20% chance of light snow IMBY late on 16th...  GEFS are confident of SWrly winds from 24th.  That is 8-9 days away so still a chance of a change, I will eye tomorrow's 12z runs to see if this trend is maintained, or not... the writing appears to be on the wall...but the council are quick to wash it off...(roughly translated = more runs needed).



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Rob K
15 January 2017 20:47:33


looks like its going to be a long wait for the next cold spell if it comes at all, perhaps we will need the strat warming to help us but the clock is ticking on deep cold.


If ECM verifies we will be looking at mid Feb before anything is possible and getting too late by then


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Sorry but is my calendar broken? I only see output out to January 25 on the ECM run. I'm not sure where your additional 20 days of output are to take us to mid Feb?


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Chiltern Blizzard
15 January 2017 21:37:04


looks like its going to be a long wait for the next cold spell if it comes at all, perhaps we will need the strat warming to help us but the clock is ticking on deep cold.


If ECM verifies we will be looking at mid Feb before anything is possible and getting too late by then


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


If (and its a very big if) the ECM verified there's the potential for the Atlantic and Canadian Arctic highs to join and drift east causing a major cold outbreak!  Will it happen like that? High unlikely, but there's more evidence of that evolution currently in the model output (I.e. It's consistent with the ECM op) than 4 weeks of zonality taking us to mid-Feb.


 


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
15 January 2017 22:28:01

This evening's De Bilt ens. Some fairly stark differences in the ensemble consensus between ECM and GFS in the short and medium term...



 



 


 


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Gooner
15 January 2017 22:52:00

Well into FI and still a cold feel for many



Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


moomin75
15 January 2017 22:52:23
Think he confused warm uppers with warm at the surface which we have all done at some stage. However the uppers are exceptional and in any sunshine which would no doubt be limited, it would feel almost spring like.
But that is at day 10 so like is the case with exceptional cold charts it's not really likely to come off like that.
Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
fairweather
16 January 2017 00:55:37

Well there are certainly plenty of "Spin Docs" on this forum on both sides of the argument 🙂 Lucky Alastair Campbell isn't posting! But it has been an uncertain winter. The next week is cold and dry for the S.E and milder elsewhere. Then, initially it looks like a burst of Atlantic stuff but after that it is back into the unknown. To be honest we've all been clueless recently and I reserve the right to be clueless about February and the start of March! Anyway I am old enough to have seen raging westerly gales turn into blizzards within 36 hours so although it is a much rarer occurrence these days and the form horse is not severe cold, I wouldn't be giving up on this winter just yet.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Retron
16 January 2017 04:33:39
There's been very little change model wise over the last couple of days as regards the longer-term outlook. Both GEFS and EPS are showing a marked warm-up around the 24th and this morning's GFS op does the same.

Of course it can still change, but I would always be more confident of a mild/SW'ly type verifying than an easterly type!
Leysdown, north Kent
nsrobins
16 January 2017 06:56:40

I go straight to the GEFS line graph now such is the 'unentertaining' nature of the NWP via a vis winter prospects.
And with only a couple of runs dipping below the -5 line it tells me all I need to know.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Richard K
16 January 2017 07:00:38

One ray of hope is the significant warming in the strat forecast quite consistently at the end of the month:
http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=10&carte=1


(move the time on to the last few frames)


Saffron Walden, NW Essex, approx 70m above sea level (when the tide is out)
Justin W
16 January 2017 07:03:32

While the GEFS show a spell of westerlies in the main, the ECM op has a slider low and a build of pressure behind it limiting westerlies to three or four days.


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Retron
16 January 2017 07:04:46


One ray of hope is the significant warming in the strat forecast quite consistently at the end of the month:
http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=10&carte=1


(move the time on to the last few frames)


Originally Posted by: Richard K 


That ray of hope shines as brightly as an old 1970s torch running on a nearly dead AA battery. (We saw the same thing last year and it delivered diddly squat).


The only bright thing about having such shocklingly low stratospheric temperatures over the UK (other than the UV graphs, as we'll get a mini ozone hole again!) is that we have a chance of seeing nacreous clouds. I missed out last year, so another shot at seeing them would be quite nice!



Leysdown, north Kent
doctormog
16 January 2017 07:10:02
Looking for clarity in the medium term this morning and it seems that by day 9 or 10 the GFS has gone one way and the ECM the opposite this morning! Somewhat of a reversal from last night.

http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2401.gif  what happens next?

Or

http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2401.gifthe  less said about that chart, the better!

Even by day 6 the main three models are all somewhat different. Still more runs needed.
Brian Gaze
16 January 2017 07:40:41


That ray of hope shines as brightly as an old 1970s torch running on a nearly dead AA battery. (We saw the same thing last year and it delivered diddly squat).


Originally Posted by: Retron 


There has been quite a lot of discussion on Twitter in the last few days about the possibility of an SSW bringing a pattern change in February. The problem is we have been hearing this every winter since the SSW concept gained traction and became fashionable.  


My take on the current output is that a transition back to more unsettled weather continues to look likely later this month. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see high pressure muting it to an extent in the south.



 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Easternpromise
16 January 2017 08:27:25

Looking for clarity in the medium term this morning and it seems that by day 9 or 10 the GFS has gone one way and the ECM the opposite this morning! Somewhat of a reversal from last night.

http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2401.gif what happens next?

Or

http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2401.gifthe less said about that chart, the better!

Even by day 6 the main three models are all somewhat different. Still more runs needed.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


 


Doc, your GFS chart link is not correct. No space between "gif" and "the".


 


http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2401.gif 


Location: Yaxley, Suffolk
Solar Cycles
16 January 2017 08:40:36
There's no point dressing the NWP output up its a shocker if its cold anytime soon you're looking for. As for SSW riding in to save the day, well we've seen that one shot dead many times before.
Rob K
16 January 2017 09:44:28
It would be interesting to know what changed upstream/in the stratosphere/in the NOAA and ECMWF server rooms to cause such a sudden collapse of promising-looking output. Unfortunately I doubt even the models know!

It's disappointing how a seemingly pretty certain cold period melted away so suddenly. Even the much vaunted settled dry spell managed to go awry with something like 30 hours of more or less nonstop rain so far here, and another 10 or so to come!
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
SEMerc
16 January 2017 10:03:32


While the GEFS show a spell of westerlies in the main, the ECM op has a slider low and a build of pressure behind it limiting westerlies to three or four days.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


Yes, that caught my eye too. Would have been fascinating to see how a T+264 chart panned out.

Gandalf The White
16 January 2017 10:05:54

There's no point dressing the NWP output up its a shocker if its cold anytime soon you're looking for. As for SSW riding in to save the day, well we've seen that one shot dead many times before.

Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 


Agreed SC. I have very little confidence in SSWs producing changes in the troposphere that are necessarily going to promote cold weather here. There's a world of difference beteeen 'does happen' and 'will happen'.


The nicest label for the overnight output is 'interesting'. To be honest anything would be better than several days of gloom in the current nomansland here beteeen the cold to the east and mild to the west.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


AirbusBod
16 January 2017 10:09:19
.......yet!
Solar Cycles
16 January 2017 10:15:31


 


Agreed SC. I have very little confidence in SSWs producing changes in the troposphere that are necessarily going to promote cold weather here. There's a world of difference beteeen 'does happen' and 'will happen'.


The nicest label for the overnight output is 'interesting'. To be honest anything would be better than several days of gloom in the current nomansland here beteeen the cold to the east and mild to the west.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

Indeed, the thought of 7-10 days of constant gloomy grey laden skies is enough for anyone.

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