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Gusty
30 January 2018 17:35:16


 Steve is the ultimate, "Reverse Psychologist", WI..


Sun/Mon onwards next week open to further upgrades...


Originally Posted by: SnowyHythe(Kent) 


Me ? Never ! 


I should have called curtains on this 'winter' after the early January failed easterly debacle 3 weeks back. 


Sun/Mon. Yes a new rainbow to chase. No doubt that rainbow will disappear as soon as those clouds move in from the west to blot out that increasingly strong late winter sunshine.


ECM will no doubt come out with a decent easterly looking outlook. Don't fall for it. Its a trap. 


See you back here in March lads. I'm in Spring mode now. 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
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Weathermac
30 January 2018 17:55:26


 


Me ? Never ! 


I should have called curtains on this 'winter' after the early January failed easterly debacle 3 weeks back. 


Sun/Mon. Yes a new rainbow to chase. No doubt that rainbow will disappear as soon as those clouds move in from the west to blot out that increasingly strong late winter sunshine.


ECM will no doubt come out with a decent easterly looking outlook. Don't fall for it. Its a trap. 


See you back here in March lads. I'm in Spring mode now. 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


i have a feelng spring will be a long time coming this year with lots of snow around even into april so see you in may steve.tongue-out

Bertwhistle
30 January 2018 17:55:41


Looking at the T500s on the NHem makes this a bit easier to understand.



You could almost argue it is the polar vortex. The reason the -10C isotherm is surviving is due to the insane depth of the cold which extends all the way into the stratosphere.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


I did wonder; seeing a -10 850 patch reach the UK from the NW is very uncommon; for it to arc around the top of the high and reach S England (the first wave of this in the 12z op) is not something I've seen before. Then a second hit at -10s, from a westerly, incredible. But then, those 500s surely must have to be taken with reserve- unless it is an Arctic leak-in as a result of jet disruption or PV fragmentation.


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
Retron
30 January 2018 18:02:18


I did wonder; seeing a -10 850 patch reach the UK from the NW is very uncommon; for it to arc around the top of the high and reach S England (the first wave of this in the 12z op) is not something I've seen before.


Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 


There's actually a second pulse a few days later which makes it to Kent. I guess that explains the zonal look to the GEFS at the moment - lots of sine waves in evidence, but oscillating around -3C or so down here rather than the usual +2 or so. A few of them briefly touch -10C at the bottom of the sine wave, suggesting the operational isn't alone in propelling remarkably cold air SE'wards.


FWIW, the first pulse of -10s from the NW results in highs of 3C under clear blue skies according to the GFS - interesting to experience, I guess, but those same -10s from the east instead would have resulted in so much more.


 


Leysdown, north Kent
squish
30 January 2018 18:23:31
ICON and NAVGEM both build the high over the UK at +180 thus preventing a blast from the NW as shown on the GFS. Interesting to see what the ECM shows ...
D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
fairweather
30 January 2018 18:24:57


 


If by ‘South’ you mean the coastal counties of England then you may have a point. 


Depending on context ‘South’ could mean anywhere south of the Midlands and then your comment would be highly inaccurate.


Here, for example, we’ve had two substantial snowfalls; one ‘disruptive’ for a day.  We’ve had countless overnight frosts as well.  


Plus, there’s a third of winter left and the models aren’t reliable more than a few days out.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


I'm not sure how this relates to my comments about the modeling of Continental harsh cold! Well obviously I meant south of the M4 corridor because we all know there was a bit of snow north of there. But that has nothing to do with my comment regarding Continental serious cold being modeled for here and not happening in previous years. At least there has been no promise of that.It seems to me that some cold fans set their sights realistically low these days or are too young to know what a harsh winter spell is! One frost here in January, scraping in for an hour at -0.6C doesn't constitute a cold January to me!


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Karl Guille
30 January 2018 18:40:38
ECM flirting with the south-east on this run! I wonder how much more energy would need to slip southwards to give us a day or two of easterlies in the Channel?
http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2018013012/ECM0-144.GIF?30-0 
St. Sampson
Guernsey
Karl Guille
30 January 2018 18:45:10
Still flirting at T192 but its origins are very definitely not from the east!!
http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2018013012/ECM0-192.GIF?30-0 
St. Sampson
Guernsey
Solar Cycles
30 January 2018 18:49:49


 


 


 


Cosmic



Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

😂😂😂😂

Solar Cycles
30 January 2018 18:53:12

After many false dawns I really can’t be arsed chasing another phantom snow event which will probably result in an hour or two of sleet followed by a bit of light drizzle. Next week still looks dry and cold for many so at least we’ll see some frosty nights.

Whether Idle
30 January 2018 19:01:19


 


There's actually a second pulse a few days later which makes it to Kent. I guess that explains the zonal look to the GEFS at the moment - lots of sine waves in evidence, but oscillating around -3C or so down here rather than the usual +2 or so. A few of them briefly touch -10C at the bottom of the sine wave, suggesting the operational isn't alone in propelling remarkably cold air SE'wards.


FWIW, the first pulse of -10s from the NW results in highs of 3C under clear blue skies according to the GFS - interesting to experience, I guess, but those same -10s from the east instead would have resulted in so much more.


Originally Posted by: Retron 


I'm not sure its game over yet Darren.  I think its best to wait at least 24 hours on this one.  


Expect plenty of scatter in FI on the ECM ens.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Karl Guille
30 January 2018 19:14:27
Whether Idle
30 January 2018 19:17:09

And here's what JMA thinks of things at T144 and 168!
http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/jma/runs/2018013012/J144-7.GIF?30-12
Originally Posted by: Karl Guille 

">http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/jma/runs/2018013012/J168-7.GIF?30-12


Yes, a lot of bolt shooting has happened this evening. More runs needed.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Bertwhistle
30 January 2018 19:18:33

12z gives a London snow-row total of 104; I think it topped 120 once this season- but, boy, what a contrast this year, forecast-wise even, compared to the previous 4. The better winter continues.


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
Rob K
30 January 2018 19:24:18


12z gives a London snow-row total of 104; I think it topped 120 once this season- but, boy, what a contrast this year, forecast-wise even, compared to the previous 4. The better winter continues.


Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 


I've certainly seen more snow falling this winter than in the last two or three, but it hasn't resulted in anything more than a dusting at home, and a temporary couple of cm on the top of the Surrey Hills earlier in the month.


 


It also seems that the variability both between models and between runs has been at an all-time high, or maybe I'm just looking at more different models these days. 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Brian Gaze
30 January 2018 19:24:20

I've added in 5 and 10 day temp anomaly charts. They compare the GFS op to the 1981 - 2010 reanalysis data from NCEP. They are logically correct but I have some reservations. Hopefully they'll be of some use, the direct links are: 


5 day temp anomaly 1981 - 2010


10 day temp anomaly 1981 - 2010


 



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Rob K
30 January 2018 19:31:28
Is that the mean temperature anomaly or the max temperature anomaly, Brian?
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Bertwhistle
30 January 2018 19:35:50


 


I've certainly seen more snow falling this winter than in the last two or three, but it hasn't resulted in anything more than a dusting at home, and a temporary couple of cm on the top of the Surrey Hills earlier in the month.


 


It also seems that the variability both between models and between runs has been at an all-time high, or maybe I'm just looking at more different models these days. 


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Maybe, but I've felt that too- although a member for <3 years, a watcher for longer. I think maybe the models deal with less frequent weather patterns less well than the frequent. Stands to reason- scientifically, greater sample size correlates with greater confidence levels. The odd & often conflicting signals this season have meant that even the most knowledgeable on TWO seem perplexed at times.


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
Whether Idle
30 January 2018 21:35:44

As I suspected, a  large variation in the 2m temperatures on the SW Holland ensembles from day 5, which then widens to make pretty much anything possible from day 8: 


https://www.weerplaza.nl/15daagseverwachting/?type=eps_pluim&element=&r=zuidwest


Cooling then warming trend discernible though.  But a different picture will be painted again in 12 hrs time.


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Brian Gaze
30 January 2018 21:41:12

Is that the mean temperature anomaly or the max temperature anomaly, Brian?

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Mean.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
JACKO4EVER
30 January 2018 21:48:39
Quiet in here tonight..,,, mind you I’ve just looked at the latest model output and I’m not surprised.
30 January 2018 21:58:41


I've added in 5 and 10 day temp anomaly charts. They compare the GFS op to the 1981 - 2010 reanalysis data from NCEP. They are logically correct but I have some reservations. Hopefully they'll be of some use, the direct links are: 


5 day temp anomaly 1981 - 2010


10 day temp anomaly 1981 - 2010


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Thanks Brian. That is a very useful addition to your charts.


I have just calculated the latest anomalies for the CET thread and I came up with an anomaly of -0.3C for the next 10 days. That is using data from the Meteogroup app which I understand is derived from the ECM model.


I tried using the site below to estimate the anomaly using GFS data - using Luton AP as a proxy for Rothamsted, Leeds/Bradford as the best available proxy for Stonyhurst and Brize Norton as a proxy for Pershore.


http://wxweb.meteostar.com/sample/sample_C.shtml?text=EGVN/


A bit of a rough and ready calculation but this gave me an anomaly of -0.8C. So a bit higher than ECM but still somewhat less than the -2C anomaly shown on your 10 day chart for central England.


This chart shows the anomaly for the next 8 days as in the 0C to -2C range for central England. 


http://wxmaps.org/pix/temp4.html


My calculations have the anomaly for days 1-8 as -1.2C (as opposed to the -0.8C for days 1-10). 


So your anomaly figures seem about right - possibly a little too much on the negative side. But certainly no more than a 1C variance which is easily accounted for by the rather rough and ready nature of my quick calculations.

ballamar
30 January 2018 21:59:52
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU18_93_1.png 

If that could slide a bit further west.....
Whether Idle
30 January 2018 22:04:06

Quiet in here tonight..,,, mind you I’ve just looked at the latest model output and I’m not surprised.

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Cant agree with that at all.  Model fatigue has set in after months of cold chasing for many punters, sadly just as the charts start to get really interesting.


Take the ICON 18z offering - for t120 - fascinating and an upgrade:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/icone_cartes.php?&ech=120&mode=0&map=2&archive=0


 


 


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Karl Guille
30 January 2018 22:15:17
Subtle changes at T108 with the colder -4 850hPA air across western France and into the Bay of Biscay and -6 850hPA air across much of the eastern side of the UK!
http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2018013018/gfs-1-108.png?18 
St. Sampson
Guernsey

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