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Gusty
23 February 2018 18:10:38

The 12z GEFS are indeed impressive. Generally a very respectable cluster keeping things sub -8c out to the 8th MARCH.


This is unprecedented and probably something that hasn't occurred possibly ever ?


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Steve - Folkestone, Kent
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Whether Idle
23 February 2018 18:10:48

ECM t72


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=72&mode=1&map=1&type=0&archive=0


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Rob K
23 February 2018 18:11:58
My local Met Office automated forecast (Sandhurst) has ramped up the snow risk a fair bit. Wednesday night into Thursday morning now has 40-50% snow risk the whole time (along with a -10C "feels like" temperature!)
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
SJV
23 February 2018 18:12:36


 


'Imo, it's going to snow because of X, Y or Z' = positive post?


'Imo, it's not going to snow because of X, Y or Z' = trolling?


Originally Posted by: Devonian 


No, it was tongue in cheek, hence the emoticon  It was more about those who post in February that 'winter is over' (when the charts don't show cold) when of course we can see cold and snow in March, as we are seeing now 


 

some faraway beach
23 February 2018 18:13:55


The deep cold to the NE on the +144 UKMO is capable of acting like a blocking high of its own.


It even generates its own higher SLP because it's so dense - hence a lot of models now showing a narrow surface ridge aligned with it by Fri-Sat.


It adds a fascinating twist to things just when we'd otherwise be at the mercy of an evolving west-based negative NAO setup - although I'm not sure given stratospheric signals that the blocking high will actually go so far away. 



The elongated shape of the LP to the south on the +144 UKMO suggests it is continuing to follow the (very!) southerly-tracking jet into the Med. more than break away N in the style of GFS.


I would actually expect, going forward, to see the LP continue across to Italy or thereabouts, with deep cold still moving across the UK from the E or NE albeit not at such brisk pace as earlier in the week, leaving us wondering if the polar vortex will pay us a visit from Siberia way before the remnant cold pooling had even had time to clear away.


That last part depends on how the second bout of anomalies propagating down from the stratosphere happen to orientate, so not worth getting too interested in at this time - especially given what we've got to deal with next week!


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


Thanks for that. It all makes a lot of sense. Good point that the jet is on such a southerly track that repeated promises by the GFS of a breakdown rising from the SW look like a fault with the model. 


Also, more generally, that deep cold is dense air, and hence hard to shift. This has been a problem every time we get real cold in the UK - forecasters and models alike, right back to when I was a kid watching TV forecasts in the Sixties and Seventies, overplay the chances of less dense, milder air shoving dense, cold air aside. The first attempt rarely succeeds in finishing the job.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
jhall
23 February 2018 18:14:50


 


Thanks for that explanation SC!


 


Meanwhile I see the control run has a second crack at a breakdown. The first was all snow, the second turns to rain for a time in the SE before dumping more snow in the Midlands. 


 


Very 1980s these repeated attempts at introducing mild air!


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Or even 1947.


Cranleigh, Surrey
Whether Idle
23 February 2018 18:17:08

ECM t96 bitter snowy in the eastern half at least and there appears to be a tensing of the muscles out to our east, in readiness to fling further cold.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=96&mode=1&map=1&type=0&archive=0


1987 for comparison:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/archives/archives.php?mode=0&month=1&day=11&year=1987&map=0&hour=0&type=ncep


 


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Arcus
23 February 2018 18:17:49


ECM t96 bitter snowy in the eastern half at least and there appears to be a tensing of the muscles out to our east, in readiness to fling further cold.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=96&mode=1&map=1&type=0&archive=0


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


That nice little feature that runs E to W over the UK is back in the frame as well.


 


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Brian Gaze
23 February 2018 18:18:23

As I mentioned recently the Feb 2005 brought 10 - 15 consecutive days with snow falling here despite it not being a very good location for streamers. The main "problem" was the melt due to the lengthening days and (IIRC) warm sectors passing through. Therefore I'd be surprised if this area didn't see at least a little snow before next Thursday. Beyond that is anyone's guess at the moment.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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doctormog
23 February 2018 18:20:33


ECM t96 bitter snowy in the eastern half at least and there appears to be a tensing of the muscles out to our east, in readiness to fling further cold.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=96&mode=1&map=1&type=0&archive=0


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Yes that little feature and generally the flow from the east could result in a lot of snow in places I think. 


Is it safe to say that it will get cold in the coming days when this is the picture at 48hr? http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2018022312/ECM0-48.GIF?23-0 


Whether Idle
23 February 2018 18:22:58

ECM 120 - the stuff of dreams.  Bitter, potential for snow nationwide.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=120&mode=1&map=0&type=0&archive=0


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
moomin75
23 February 2018 18:24:35


ECM 120 - the stuff of dreams.  Bitter, potential for snow nationwide.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=120&mode=1&map=0&type=0&archive=0


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 

Unbelievable. Wow. What a chart.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Whether Idle
23 February 2018 18:25:23


 


Yes that little feature and generally the flow from the east could result in a lot of snow in places I think. 


Is it safe to say that it will get cold in the coming days when this is the picture at 48hr? http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2018022312/ECM0-48.GIF?23-0 


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


We must study this evening's  faxes - it should be there. 


This is uncanny.  Normally at this point the train is derailed and the forum descends into bickering and recrimination. 


The beast is the bringer of harmony


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
SJV
23 February 2018 18:27:47

nods appreciatively at the ECM 120 chart


Not bad, not bad 

Arcus
23 February 2018 18:30:10
The low wanders into NW Spain at T+144. Place your bets...
Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Rob K
23 February 2018 18:36:00

This cold pool is deeper than 1991. I reckon a few hours after this point we would see sub 500dam somewhere in the UK for the first time since 1987.

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/ecmwf.aspx?run=na&charthour=120&chartname=thickuk_only&chartregion=uk&charttag=UK%20thickness


 


Whatever happens after this point, this is notable in itself. It would only be the third time sub 500 dam air has crossed the UK since the 1940s.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Ally Pally Snowman
23 February 2018 18:36:35

ECM 168 is the greatest winter chart for 1000 years insane 


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Whether Idle
23 February 2018 18:36:40

ECM 168.


 


Be afraid


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=168&mode=1&map=0&type=0&archive=0


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Nordic Snowman
23 February 2018 18:37:22

Certainly some widespread and heavy snow from the ECM Op @ T168:-


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=1&model=ecm&var=2&time=168&run=12&lid=OP&h=0&mv=0&tr=24


Staying on the cold side too.


Next up: T192


Bjorli, Norway

Website 
moomin75
23 February 2018 18:37:39


ECM 168 is the greatest winter chart for 1000 years insane 


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

Absolutely crazy. Snowmageddon Mark II.


I have NEVER seen anything like it.....upgrades continue. 


Dumbfounded. 🌨🌨🌨🌨🌨🌨🌨🌨🌨🌨🌨🌨🌨


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
23 February 2018 18:38:04
I think the -NAO going quickly west based may help a bit, actually. It allows pressure to fall to our East which in turn lets the low slip past rather than stalling up Western Britain.
Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Arcus
23 February 2018 18:38:56


ECM 168.


 


Be afraid


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=168&mode=1&map=0&type=0&archive=0


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Aye, the cold says "no". Meanwhile, a monster Greenland HP and cold air reloading to the N and NE.


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
David M Porter
23 February 2018 18:40:26


Absolutely crazy. Snowmageddon Mark II.


I have NEVER seen anything like it.....upgrades continue. 


Dumbfounded. 🌨🌨🌨🌨🌨🌨🌨🌨🌨🌨🌨🌨🌨


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Private Frazer from Dad's Army has just seen that chart, and his verdict is "WE'RE DOOMED!"



Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Bertwhistle
23 February 2018 18:42:47

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/chart.aspx?chart=///www.theweatheroutlook.com/charts/ecm/120_thickuk.png?cb=289


Is that really the 510 dam line past most of S UK?


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
Gooner
23 February 2018 18:44:55


ECM 168 is the greatest winter chart for 1000 years insane 


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


and the 192 god knows the snow potential 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


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