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Rob K
26 January 2015 22:38:14


Modele UKMO - Carte FAX Bracknell - Pression et fronts


Latest fax chart shows fronts moving South


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


 


Looks like better heights to the north on the fax chart!


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
nsrobins
26 January 2015 22:43:29


 


 


Looks like better heights to the north on the fax chart!


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Agree at first glance but I fear that high is not destined to be a player by next Tues. Still unknown as to where snow falls and how much but I'll stick to my assumption that this is a slow burner and decent cold air does not get in until Sat/Sun. We might have two days of potential in the SE as it stands.
Still, the CF on Weds will be exciting and nocturnal features need to be watched.
In Scotland, yes snow likely but those near the coast need to be mindful of various phases of mixing and higher dp cores that could well restrict snow to higher elevations until Saturday.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
doctormog
26 January 2015 22:46:08


 


Agree at first glance but I fear that high is not destined to be a player by next Tues. Still unknown as to where snow falls and how much but I'll stick to my assumption that this is a slow burner and decent cold air does not get in until Sat/Sun. We might have two days of potential in the SE as it stands.
Still, the CF on Weds will be exciting and nocturnal features need to be watched.
In Scotland, yes snow likely but those near the coast need to be mindful of various phases of mixing and higher dp cores that could well restrict snow to higher elevations until Saturday.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


I would agree with that Neil although later on Wednesday and Thursday will be colder than Fri/Sat albeit with a NWly rather than northerly flow. I'm not holding my breath here at this range but somewhere should do OK.


Gooner
26 January 2015 22:47:22

Modele UKMO - Carte FAX Bracknell - Pression et fronts


Saturday has the cold flow again with disturbances , LP sat above Iceland, where will that go?


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Chiltern Blizzard
26 January 2015 22:48:48


and turning to rain as it moves thru maybe sleet if lucky. . tho could be worse new York is in for 90cm of snow


Originally Posted by: sizzle 


A rather pessimistic analysis given the 528dam line is well over France.


Troughs galore on that northerly airstream!


 


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
26 January 2015 22:56:12

Once again 18Z is way better than ECM in pushing down the cold uppers over the UK in the later stages of the northerly.


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
uncle festa
26 January 2015 23:04:02

Question for Storm Chaser.  If the dew points as you say will be too high post Wednesday's CF shooting through, then I'm puzzled as to how GFS 12z brings up these chartshttp://modeles2.mete...101UK.GIF?26-12 I'm always struggling to find the WRF-nMM charts, so have you a link to the WRF dp charts


Thanks


 


Lee


some intresting murr posts fom NW -----


so when the front clears weds eve- expect a dramatic drop of air & dewpoint from +8c to -3c


 


12pm Weds


http://modeles2.mete...101UK.GIF?26-12


 


15PM Weds


http://modeles2.mete...101UK.GIF?26-12


 


overnight temps plummet in clear air before a period of snow moves in


http://modeles2.mete...779UK.GIF?26-12


 


May well give a dusting- at least the first meaningful snow falling for 2 years.


 


Post that, UKMO brings us a potent arctic blast that would certainly again see snow falling across the region.- At that point we need a bit of timing & luck to see snow cover-


The best 850 GFS chart for some time


http://modeles2.mete...8-7UK.GIF?26-12


deep cold uppers ( -11c) spreading south- very negative dewpoints- so any PPN falling would be snow.


 


Looking nice at this stage...


 


We should start seeing some pinks across the SE on the Euro 4 from the 00z run....


 


ECM to 72 has -6c uppers remaining in the SE


http://www.meteociel...612/ECU0-72.GIF


 
ECM 144 looks potentially great with the icelandic shortwave looking alligned SSE to crosd the uk with ridging behind

Could be good..... 


Originally Posted by: sizzle 


stwike him, centurion, wuffly
Lee
Robertski
26 January 2015 23:04:27


 


There will always be differences of opinion I'm afraid.


However I'm not sure where you get the impression that the Met Office are suggesting something more significant; they posted an update on FB and Twitter that implied a good chance of some snow showers in the south, but with amounts expected to be too low for accumulations.


Their official forecast speaks only of 'blustery wintry showers' for Wednesday night in the south, these focused across the west.


If you have seen something from them that implies otherwise, be sure to post a link so that we can all enjoy it 


 


Believe me, I really want to be able to predict some decent snowfall and accumulations on the ground, but at this stage I have little evidence to support such claims - just a small chance that the models and Met Office are underestimating the precipitation rates.


Some five or six years ago, I was guilty of getting carried away on many occasions, and while on a few occasions it came through, there were enough cases of stressful radar watching and last minute letdowns to hammer home the fact that having low expectations generally allows for a more relaxed existence.


Worth bearing in mind though that I live in a location so poor for snow that even in the coldest week of December 2010 I saw a bit of rain turning my 2-3 inches of level snow into a far less appealing layer of rough ice... so I am bound to be among the most skeptical of us all - it's a force of habit.


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


To be honest I have seen nothing on the BBC and meto web sites that would suggest anything more than just a few wintry showers and a bit of a breeze, colder yes, but certainly nothing to get excited about at this stage. Perhaps as we get closer to Wednesday we will see some kind of upgrade but I'm not too sure sure. It looks a bit of a non event down here at this stage. Still the longer the cold hangs around the better the chance of seeing snow down south. Plenty to keep the interest but I am keeping my feet on the ground and not in my ski boots😊

uncle festa
26 January 2015 23:22:38
Fair play Robertski, although I think(hope) Wednesday's feature might bring a surprise or 2 to the south of the UK. I would love to see the Essex snow shield be smashed by this upcoming cold spell, although StormChaser and a few others on here have taught me caution 'tis a wise thing. On balance, I have a feeling Sunday/Monday has a better potential for producing falling and possibly lying snow in the south.

We shall see

Apologies for not posting charts to back up my musings, many years lurking on the MOD and not much posting makes me a little nervous to post on here
stwike him, centurion, wuffly
Lee
Quantum
26 January 2015 23:26:12

My view is this, if you live North of a line going from Manchester to Hull, then I'd be surprised if you see no (non negligible) snowfall. And by non-negligible, someone who isn't a snow obsessive would say its snowing! For more southern areas its complicated, the west will see snow showers on Wednesday night, that includes large parts of the west midlands. Beyond that its difficult, and the outlook is dominated with meso-features, in other words we are looking at localized significant snowfalls away from the north which will see general snow shower activity. 


Lets have a look at a typical sounding.


Manchester 3pm


Model temps GFS We 28.01.2015 15 GMT  


So this is a marginal snow/rain sounding, the warm layer is thin (barely 40hpa) and cold <4C, and the lapse rate is pretty good. Note also that there is next to no directional wind sheer and that the inversion height is very high, i.e the lake effect potential is fantastic. Manchester is primed to get heavy snow showers Wednesday afternoon. In fact, the sounding at 9pm is even better.


Typically a warm layer of 35hpa for a decent lapse rate supports snow provided the layer isn't too warm. 


By the time we get to thursday, the rain risk all but vanishes.


Model temps GFS Th 29.01.2015 03 GMT


There is no warm layer! This is snow, 100% probability, although ofc that's assuming this sounding is 100% accurate which it isn't. 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
tallyho_83
26 January 2015 23:27:34

So I have a question - it's directed at Gavin more!?

As you know the south missed out on the snow during the last cold spell which was pathetic, do any of you think there is more chance of the south and west having or seeing some snow this time around or will this be a deja-vu of last weeks cold spell that never delivered anything!!? Anyone?

Time and time we have been let down in the south and all snow/sleet showers have always been over higher ground and whilst there were a few showers overnight the temperatures rose and the showers were very light.

Am I wasting my time looking at the models hoping for a decent snow shower or sleet let alone cover? All we need is one flake...just one flake or snow...JUST ONE!! It's not asking for too much surely!?




Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


uncle festa
26 January 2015 23:38:17
Oh, so you've got a snow shield down there as well Tallyho, thought it was just an Essex thing :D
Methinks we all need a few days of strong cold in followed by disturbances in the Northerly flow before we can get all excited, (wake up Sunday and get the sledges out, he said over optimistically) XD
stwike him, centurion, wuffly
Lee
nsrobins
27 January 2015 06:09:10

May I be the first to comment (and more likely totally ignored LOL)


It's as you were really for Weds - Tues next week. Maybe not the same degree of cold on various scales but the risk of snow is still there, as is the feature on Sunday/Monday which is trending towards a more significant disruptive event rather than a squirt of energy moving SE.


As an observation, when the BBC broadcasts start emphasising 'bitter winds' rather than snowfall, you know it's time to be realistic about it all


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
peeps in west oxon
27 January 2015 06:28:19
Thanks Neil. I'm am listening to you!😄
West Oxfordshire, 80M ASL
Weathermac
27 January 2015 06:29:36
Yes neil you only have to view the bbc 5 dayer to see its a non event for most away from the north.
doctormog
27 January 2015 06:41:05

Yes neil you only have to view the bbc 5 dayer to see its a non event for most away from the north.

Originally Posted by: Weathermac 


Which is ironic as I don't expect any significant wintry weather here in the next 5 days. 


As Neil says things look largely unchanged this morning with a cold NWly setting late on Wednesday bringing the risk of snow to some northern and northwestern parts (although NE Scotland should "escape").


Friday and Saturday look chilly but less wintry unless you live on high ground. After that is when the northerly seems like coming in properly. If it has any "features" associated with it, or indeed even happens - well at this time scale it is too risky to say with any confidence.


Sinky1970
27 January 2015 07:10:30

Well next to nothing forecast here in the west midlands over the next 5 days - according to the bbc.


Also, i know it's long way off but the high formation to the north/northeast seems to have been chucked by the GFS, 5c plus uppers cover the country from the southwest.

Snowedin3
27 January 2015 07:18:47

Do people ever listen or take note?  


 


More of the same this morning, i have noticed that the 00z runs are usually the worst set of the bunch with small improvements the rest of the day, however still looking pretty for a cold spell for 5/7 days, the GEFS keeping it pretty cold out to Thursday next week, beyond that who knows! but we shouldn't be looking past the weekend to be honest.


 


 


Dean Barnes
Finstock, Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire
160m ASL 525 Ft
Nordic Snowman
27 January 2015 07:51:06


 


Which is ironic as I don't expect any significant wintry weather here in the next 5 days. 


As Neil says things look largely unchanged this morning with a cold NWly setting late on Wednesday bringing the risk of snow to some northern and northwestern parts (although NE Scotland should "escape").


Friday and Saturday look chilly but less wintry unless you live on high ground. After that is when the northerly seems like coming in properly. If it has any "features" associated with it, or indeed even happens - well at this time scale it is too risky to say with any confidence.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


 


Good summary Doc.


 


This is what I attempted to say yesterday... but seemed to upset some of my pals in Duane and Marcus - unintentionally of course  


Slightly less cold air pushes in on Thursday and Friday which confines any wintry ppn to higher ground and to more northern areas in general (which has been modelled for days now) and as you say, a 2nd wave of colder N'ly winds could push in for the weekend. I still think there will be plenty of dry weather associated with the weekend push, especially down the spine of the country with most showers close to exposed windward coasts in the N, W and E. Wintry in nature but IMHO only, I wouldn't expect too much disruption here. That said, exposed hills in the more prone areas (NYM, Lakes etc) are at greater risk of something more significant.


Early next week to start cold but, as the ENS have been showing, a trend to something less cold or milder could be on the way. Too far away to be certain and hence why I use the term 'hunch'. It could be a case of some breakdown snow at some point, which ironically could see a period of more widespread snow before temperatures climb closer to normal values. Another scenario could be a build of pressure with higher diurnal ranges, especially in the S.


Just my take on things and it isn't easy to write when I am sitting in cold and snowy Norway  It will actually be relatively mild here from tonight and through Wednesday...


Bjorli, Norway

Website 
sizzle
27 January 2015 08:35:26

a morning post by murr on NW ----------
 


Fantastic looking charts for the short & mid term today -
However the trending past 168 hasnt been so kind to as overnight-
Still plenty of wiggle room for those to change

A high expectation of most seeing some of the white stuff this week & if the fronts become a little slow moving then maybe even some covering!

Fingers crossed for better updates on the 12s

Girthmeister
27 January 2015 08:40:10


May I be the first to comment (and more likely totally ignored LOL)


It's as you were really for Weds - Tues next week. Maybe not the same degree of cold on various scales but the risk of snow is still there, as is the feature on Sunday/Monday which is trending towards a more significant disruptive event rather than a squirt of energy moving SE.


As an observation, when the BBC broadcasts start emphasising 'bitter winds' rather than snowfall, you know it's time to be realistic about it all


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


 


Not ignored at all! The Beeb, I think, I have been pretty good with their local forecasts on South Today for "getting colder" and no more, over the last few days. Just looking forward to looking skywards as dusk falls on Wednesday, and hoping, but not expecting. And likewise come the weekend.


As IanDJ said yesterday, the horrendous procession of storms, strong winds and incessant rain in 2013/2014 has made this winter seem benign by comparison, and so like many, I'm just quietly grateful that conditions are quieter. Cold and calm is hence terrific, and any snow is then a bonus.


 


Having said that LOL - it'll be quiet breezy for a time tomorrow:


GIBBY
27 January 2015 08:59:13

HERE IS MY LATEST ANALYSIS FROM THE OUTPUTS OF THE WEATHER COMPUTER PREDICTION MODELS FOR TWO WEEKS FROM 8AM TODAY TUESDAY JANUARY 27TH 2015.


NEXT UPDATE WEDNESDAY JANUARY 28TH 2015 08:00


THE CURRENT GENERAL SITUATION A strengthening SW flow ahead of active cold fronts crossing SE over the UK tonight and tomorrow will be followed by an increasingly cold and windy westerly flow tomorrow.


MODELS-2 WEEK HEADLINE Becoming colder with snow showers or snow at times before becoming less cold and changeable again later next week.


THE JET STREAM ENSEMBLE FORECAST The Jet Stream Forecast shows a week long spell with a deep trough over Europe keeping the flow well South of the UK in NW winds. In week 2 the pattern flattens markedly over the Atlantic and Europe with the flow returning North across the UK between High pressure re-established to the South of the UK and Low to the North.


GFS OPERATIONAL The GFS operational today continues to illustrate the colder theme of weather now for the rest of this week, the weekend and the start to next week with cold West, NW then North winds with wintry and snow showers affecting all areas at some point across the UK with the exposed areas facing NW and North. A marked wind-chill will accompany the cold period. Then as we move through next week milder air will try to dislodge the cold from the Atlantic and a messy mix of rain and snow will accompany that before a slow return to milder SW winds and occasional rain arrives later in the run.


THE GFS CONTROL The GFS control run is not fully available at time of publish but as far as it goes show a lessening of the cold spell as we move into next week from the West.


THE GFS CLUSTERS The GFS Clusters also are only available up to 132hrs today and show a cold and wintry NNW flow across the UK in total domination at that point.


UKMO UKMO this morning continues to show the UK in a very cold Northerly flow to start next week with plenty of snow showers flooding South across the UK with only Central inland areas of Southern Britain least at risk.


THE FAX CHARTS The Fax Charts show plenty of troughs feeding South and SE in the cold flow from tomorrow giving rise to plenty of instability sufficient to give many areas the risk of either wintry or snow showers, the latter especially at the weekend as the flow turns more Northerly.


GEM GEM today continues to show the dissolve of the cold weather early next week in the wake of less cold but very unstable westerly winds with heavy rain and gales likely at times with wintry showers at times too, these especially in the North.


NAVGEM NAVGEM today keeps the cold going over the UK into next week with a ridge eventually cutting off the cold North flow by Tuesday but with the likelihood of it remaining cold with the possibly of a battleground snow event towards the West by midweek


ECM ECM this morning looks very messy as the cold northerly flow dissolves away early next week. Temperatures are shown to steadily rise by day at least as a broad ridge crosses the UK from the West. Frosts are still likely at night though and it would likely stay largely dry.


ECM 10 DAY MEAN The 10 Day Mean this morning looks like broadly setting the UK back on it's default position later next week as Low pressure lies well to the NW and High pressure to the South with broadly westerly winds likely across the UK and a much less marked trough over Europe.


NOTABLE TREND CHANGES FROM PREVIOUS RUNS The trend remains for much colder and windy weather later next week and through next weekend. The longevity of the spell has firmed up somewhat on milder conditions returning from the West as we move deeper into next week.


MY THOUGHTS The cold period is almost upon us now and remarkably the models have held firm on it's evolution of this spell from the weekend. However, the models have found it less easy to agree on the end of the spell which is looking likely towards the middle of next week. In the meantime there is concrete support for a cold and windy West, NW then North wind over the coming 5-6 days starting tomorrow with snow and sleet opportunities for many on all days though as always the hills of the North and West will probably fair best. I know we shouldn't be looking for the end of the spell before it arrives but I wouldn't be giving my report much credibility by not and it does look like there is very good support for less cold conditions to move across from the West by the middle of next week give a day or two. The way that happens is shown by most models to be a real cocktail of options at the moment but the likely scenario is for Westerly winds to regain a foothold across the UK by next weekend with rain at times. GEM shows a more extreme version of this with gales and heavy rain on a strong Westerly flow and the ECM 10 day Mean chart is ugly if it's continued cold your looking for. However, the operationals over the last few runs have shown much volatility in their range of options so I feel the ensembles tell a truer picture and that suggests milder weather as we progress through next week. Nevertheless we have a period of 5-6 days when there is some good opportunity for snow even in the South and though inevitably some will see little or none there will be some who see a lot with disruption and news coverage likely but overall by this time next week I think we will be seeing a moderation in the cold and a gradual return to a more default position we have been in for much of this Winter.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Whiteout
27 January 2015 09:20:43


 


There will always be differences of opinion I'm afraid.


However I'm not sure where you get the impression that the Met Office are suggesting something more significant; they posted an update on FB and Twitter that implied a good chance of some snow showers in the south, but with amounts expected to be too low for accumulations.


Their official forecast speaks only of 'blustery wintry showers' for Wednesday night in the south, these focused across the west.


If you have seen something from them that implies otherwise, be sure to post a link so that we can all enjoy it 


 


Believe me, I really want to be able to predict some decent snowfall and accumulations on the ground, but at this stage I have little evidence to support such claims - just a small chance that the models and Met Office are underestimating the precipitation rates.


Some five or six years ago, I was guilty of getting carried away on many occasions, and while on a few occasions it came through, there were enough cases of stressful radar watching and last minute letdowns to hammer home the fact that having low expectations generally allows for a more relaxed existence.


Worth bearing in mind though that I live in a location so poor for snow that even in the coldest week of December 2010 I saw a bit of rain turning my 2-3 inches of level snow into a far less appealing layer of rough ice... so I am bound to be among the most skeptical of us all - it's a force of habit.


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


Great post James.


It as you were this morning, a 36 hour window of snow up North before winds turn Northerly and the snow gets further restricted. Down south temps of 4-6 with a flake or two possible is hardly newsworthy although it will of course feel very cold.


By mid next week HP takes over i.e


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2015012700/ECM1-192.GIF?27-12


This ties in with latest BBC long range forecast.


At least for this cold spell it has been clear for a while what to expect and the models have handled it well.


Home/Work - Dartmoor
240m/785 ft asl
Gavin P
27 January 2015 09:26:03


So I have a question - it's directed at Gavin more!?

As you know the south missed out on the snow during the last cold spell which was pathetic, do any of you think there is more chance of the south and west having or seeing some snow this time around or will this be a deja-vu of last weeks cold spell that never delivered anything!!? 




Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


 


Nobody can say whether the south will see snow or not at this stage. Take it one day at a time and see what happens.


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
Whiteout
27 January 2015 09:36:26

Fax charts for Thursday pretty much correspond with Met warnings:


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/brack1a.gif


As I said yesterday, am surprised NW Wales and SW moors not included in warning area?


Dry elsewhere.


Home/Work - Dartmoor
240m/785 ft asl

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