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Crepuscular Ray
10 July 2017 07:25:53
All I can see on the charts is a weak Azores High and Lows across Scotland??? I was getting excited with the comments yesterday thinking summer was coming north!!
Jerry
Edinburgh, in the frost hollow below Blackford Hill
David M Porter
10 July 2017 08:12:45

All I can see on the charts is a weak Azores High and Lows across Scotland??? I was getting excited with the comments yesterday thinking summer was coming north!!

Originally Posted by: Crepuscular Ray 


Don't know if you saw the ECM 12z op run from last night, but that is most certainly what it was indicating.


This morning's ECM is not so hot for us here, but I'm wondering if there is a slight degree of volativity in the models right right as there do appear to be some hints of a pattern change.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
moomin75
10 July 2017 08:21:50


 


Don't know if you saw the ECM 12z op run from last night, but that is most certainly what it was indicating.


This morning's ECM is not so hot for us here, but I'm wondering if there is a slight degree of volativity in the models right right as there do appear to be some hints of a pattern change.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

A massive degree of volatility David. ECM has been flip flopping more than the other models this summer. I don't take much credence from ECM past 3-4 days. It's been unusually inconsistent for some time.


Uncertainty is the watch word.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
David M Porter
10 July 2017 08:29:17


A massive degree of volatility David. ECM has been flip flopping more than the other models this summer. I don't take much credence from ECM past 3-4 days. It's been unusually inconsistent for some time.


Uncertainty is the watch word.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Yeah you're right there, Kieren. FWIW this morning's ECM op run seems to be rather more in keeping with what it was indicating in yesterday morning's run plus both runs from Saturday. GFS, unusually, seems to be going for a less unsettled outlook by day 10.


As ever, more runs are needed.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Ally Pally Snowman
10 July 2017 08:55:59

 


The ecm means looks much better than the Op so I would expect an unsettled outlier . Very warm again by day 10 in the south


http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem1921.html


http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2402.html


 


 


Gfs ensemble means look like a heatwave to me . Very warm high pressure close by to our east.


http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rz500m13.html


http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rt850m14.html


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Hungry Tiger
10 July 2017 09:22:10


 


The ecm means looks much better than the Op so I would expect an unsettled outlier . Very warm again by day 10 in the south


http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem1921.html


http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2402.html


 


 


Gfs ensemble means look like a heatwave to me . Very warm high pressure close by to our east.


http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rz500m13.html


http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rt850m14.html


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Looks damned good to me.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


johncs2016
10 July 2017 09:36:58
This weeks written Monthly Outlook which is just been released on the BBC Weather website isn't looking so good for this part of the world, and that means that the omens are not looking so good now for my trip to the Scottish Borders later on this month, despite the models consistently pointing towards better weather coming up later on this month.

Even across the UK as a whole, that change to better weather is now delayed until the final week of the month (by which time, I will have returned home from that trip) and according to that forecast, this improvement still never quite manages to reach Scotland which means that the miserable summer which we have experienced up until now, looks set to continue for another month at least if that forecast is correct, whilst the south of England basks once again in that heatwave which is being predicted by the various models.

The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
David M Porter
10 July 2017 09:48:52

This weeks written Monthly Outlook which is just been released on the BBC Weather website isn't looking so good for this part of the world, and that means that the omens are not looking so good now for my trip to the Scottish Borders later on this month, despite the models consistently pointing towards better weather coming up later on this month.

Even across the UK as a whole, that change to better weather is now delayed until the final week of the month (by which time, I will have returned home from that trip) and according to that forecast, this improvement still never quite manages to reach Scotland which means that the miserable summer which we have experienced up until now, looks set to continue for another month at least if that forecast is correct, whilst the south of England basks once again in that heatwave which is being predicted by the various models.

Originally Posted by: johncs2016 


Best just to follow the models that we have access to and not to get too hooked up on what these monthly outlooks suggest, IMO.


In my experience, they are often of little use in terms of accuracy after the first week of the forecast.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
johncs2016
10 July 2017 09:55:45


 


Best just to follow the models that we have access to and not to get too hooked up on what these monthly outlooks suggest, IMO.


In my experience, they are often of little use in terms of accuracy after the first week of the forecast.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


I don't know if anyone else has spotted this as well in those Monthly Outlook forecasts, but I have found that the final weeks of those forecasts tend to mostly always default to a typical Atlantic-driven scenario with the best weather in SE England and with the most unsettled weather being in NW Britain in general (including here in Scotland) even during those periods where the current situation is nowhere like that, and even when during such periods, the models (the shorter term models at least) aren't suggesting anything like that sort of pattern.


 


The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
10 July 2017 17:52:05
Tantalising set of runs this evening so far: GFS settled, then frigid, never hot. But good high pressure dominance.

UKMO tentative bit moving in right direction.

GEM looking decidedly good. ECM still to come.

Would it be an exaggeration to say that the next 2 days of model runs will determine how this summer is remembered?
Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Bertwhistle
10 July 2017 17:59:11

GFS was slow to roll out after about T+ 198; for the model that sticks its neck out to 384, that's a very unsure moment. Not convinced by the sudden eastward slip of the high in the last few days; it was so slow moving up until then.


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
Brian Gaze
10 July 2017 18:03:06


GFS was slow to roll out after about T+ 198; for the model that sticks its neck out to 384, that's a very unsure moment. Not convinced by the sudden eastward slip of the high in the last few days; it was so slow moving up until then.


Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 


There were network problems at NCEP from 16:00GMT onwards. I think a fix has been put in place so the 18z should be on time.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
10 July 2017 18:38:16
GEFS P09 is by no means a great run for the UK, but if it came off it would almost certainly give France a heatwave beating 2003 in intensity, and would probably see the French record of 44C broken. Starting Sat 22nd, continuing to the end of run and beyond.
Brockley, South East London 30m asl
UncleAlbert
10 July 2017 19:37:25

Pleased to see that the coming changeable spell does now appear to be a blip in this good summer (southern perspective) when compared to how it was viewed by the models during last week.  I say this because the synoptic trend for around St Swithins day so often proves to be the diecast for the period to the end of August - the grain of truth in the legend. 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU12_144_1.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/ECMOPEU12_144_1.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/UKMOPEU12_144_1.png


Not totally plain sailing towards and through next weekend but the general theme seems to be for the axis of high pressure to be near or just to the south of the UK.  Rather typical of the summer so far.


 

Stormchaser
10 July 2017 20:22:56

Tells of the season so far that even this week. it's only Tuesday that looks all that poor down here in far-S. England with remaining days ranging from 'meh' to 'not bad'; Wednesday looks dry with good sunny spells and temps near or a little above average, Thursday similarly warm with a few scattered showers albeit potentially on the heavy side, Friday dry again but perhaps a fair bit of cloud so temps no better than average, the weekend warm but with a chance of some spells of rain or drizzle later on Sunday.


That being as per latest model consensus so it could well change a bit. Weekend's particularly uncertain with GFS allowing more ridge influence on Saturday than the other models.


 


Really though, I'm not that fussed given the signals for next week. By a week from today, the large-scale pattern is shaping up nicely on the evening runs;


 


Note the deep trough(s) in the vicinity of Canada/Greenland. These look to become the dominant cyclonic features in the N. Hemisphere, with the trough NE of the UK weakening in favour of ridges from the Azores (reaching there via the UK).


  


This is a classic response to a combination of AAM (atmospheric angular momentum) having climbed a bit in recent days and the movement of some cold Arctic air into Canada which spawns those deep troughs. It's a good thing AAM has risen because we'd otherwise be at the mercy of an unusually strong upper westerly flow aimed W-E or even more NW-SE across us. That's what the models were toying with before the AAM rise fed through (this, as usual, being underestimated or in the case of GFS completely overlooked until relatively short range).


Longer-term, GFS does what it always seems to do and drops AAM back down, resulting in the ridge pulling back west (dramatically so on this particular run). Theoretically, this should not actually transpire; AAM should drop quite a bit less as the atmospheric state is not conditioned to allow otherwise. Not only that but the typical effect of AAM drops become less troublesome for UK weather prospects going into August (well, at least a little). So with any luck we should have a better chance to hold onto well-placed areas of high pressure for widespread fine weather (rather than just in the south) than has been the case so far this summer.


 


So I am feeling optimistic about our prospects - but will be watching like a hawk in case any of those sneaky spanners rear their heads  


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David M Porter
10 July 2017 21:54:11


Tells of the season so far that even this week. it's only Tuesday that looks all that poor down here in far-S. England with remaining days ranging from 'meh' to 'not bad'; Wednesday looks dry with good sunny spells and temps near or a little above average, Thursday similarly warm with a few scattered showers albeit potentially on the heavy side, Friday dry again but perhaps a fair bit of cloud so temps no better than average, the weekend warm but with a chance of some spells of rain or drizzle later on Sunday.


That being as per latest model consensus so it could well change a bit. Weekend's particularly uncertain with GFS allowing more ridge influence on Saturday than the other models.


 


Really though, I'm not that fussed given the signals for next week. By a week from today, the large-scale pattern is shaping up nicely on the evening runs;


 


Note the deep trough(s) in the vicinity of Canada/Greenland. These look to become the dominant cyclonic features in the N. Hemisphere, with the trough NE of the UK weakening in favour of ridges from the Azores (reaching there via the UK).


  


This is a classic response to a combination of AAM (atmospheric angular momentum) having climbed a bit in recent days and the movement of some cold Arctic air into Canada which spawns those deep troughs. It's a good thing AAM has risen because we'd otherwise be at the mercy of an unusually strong upper westerly flow aimed W-E or even more NW-SE across us. That's what the models were toying with before the AAM rise fed through (this, as usual, being underestimated or in the case of GFS completely overlooked until relatively short range).


Longer-term, GFS does what it always seems to do and drops AAM back down, resulting in the ridge pulling back west (dramatically so on this particular run). Theoretically, this should not actually transpire; AAM should drop quite a bit less as the atmospheric state is not conditioned to allow otherwise. Not only that but the typical effect of AAM drops become less troublesome for UK weather prospects going into August (well, at least a little). So with any luck we should have a better chance to hold onto well-placed areas of high pressure for widespread fine weather (rather than just in the south) than has been the case so far this summer.


 


So I am feeling optimistic about our prospects - but will be watching like a hawk in case any of those sneaky spanners rear their heads  


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


Sounds good, James. The model runs this evening look more promising for northern parts going into next week than they have done at any point in the past month.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
johncs2016
10 July 2017 22:00:17


 


Sounds good, James. The model runs this evening look more promising for northern parts going into next week than they have done at any point in the past month.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


 


My Borders trip will be coming up a week on Wednesday (19 July 2017) and will go on until the following Monday (24 July 2017). If these model runs verify for that period, I might have picked the perfect time for that after all, in terms of trying to get some decent weather for that which will be well worth a massive celebration if that happens, especially when you consider that we have had such a miserable summer in this part of the world up until now (if that happens, I might well be active over on the moaning thread again but this time, it would be to gloat rather than moan).


 


The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
Hungry Tiger
11 July 2017 10:23:25


Tells of the season so far that even this week. it's only Tuesday that looks all that poor down here in far-S. England with remaining days ranging from 'meh' to 'not bad'; Wednesday looks dry with good sunny spells and temps near or a little above average, Thursday similarly warm with a few scattered showers albeit potentially on the heavy side, Friday dry again but perhaps a fair bit of cloud so temps no better than average, the weekend warm but with a chance of some spells of rain or drizzle later on Sunday.


That being as per latest model consensus so it could well change a bit. Weekend's particularly uncertain with GFS allowing more ridge influence on Saturday than the other models.


 


Really though, I'm not that fussed given the signals for next week. By a week from today, the large-scale pattern is shaping up nicely on the evening runs;


 


Note the deep trough(s) in the vicinity of Canada/Greenland. These look to become the dominant cyclonic features in the N. Hemisphere, with the trough NE of the UK weakening in favour of ridges from the Azores (reaching there via the UK).


  


This is a classic response to a combination of AAM (atmospheric angular momentum) having climbed a bit in recent days and the movement of some cold Arctic air into Canada which spawns those deep troughs. It's a good thing AAM has risen because we'd otherwise be at the mercy of an unusually strong upper westerly flow aimed W-E or even more NW-SE across us. That's what the models were toying with before the AAM rise fed through (this, as usual, being underestimated or in the case of GFS completely overlooked until relatively short range).


Longer-term, GFS does what it always seems to do and drops AAM back down, resulting in the ridge pulling back west (dramatically so on this particular run). Theoretically, this should not actually transpire; AAM should drop quite a bit less as the atmospheric state is not conditioned to allow otherwise. Not only that but the typical effect of AAM drops become less troublesome for UK weather prospects going into August (well, at least a little). So with any luck we should have a better chance to hold onto well-placed areas of high pressure for widespread fine weather (rather than just in the south) than has been the case so far this summer.


 


So I am feeling optimistic about our prospects - but will be watching like a hawk in case any of those sneaky spanners rear their heads  


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


Great info there James and thanks for the detailed  explanation.


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
11 July 2017 12:00:08
Humdinger of an 06z run, but for once it's near the top of the ensembles so certainly not nailed on yet.
Brockley, South East London 30m asl
briggsy6
11 July 2017 13:07:08

Sounds like God has been taking a leek over leek. Haha.


Location: Uxbridge
TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
11 July 2017 16:49:53

Oh just look at that:



Textbook. Dreamy. The summer equivalent of a 1050hPa Greenland high in January.


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Nick Gilly
11 July 2017 17:20:48

^That is the 'Holy Grail' for those of us who like hot weather in summer: the Azores High and Scandi High linking up. It's a formidable block which can be very hard to shift.

David M Porter
11 July 2017 17:44:17


^That is the 'Holy Grail' for those of us who like hot weather in summer: the Azores High and Scandi High linking up. It's a formidable block which can be very hard to shift.


Originally Posted by: Nick Gilly 


Indeed, Nick.


Late July & early August 1995 was one very good example of when such a set-up took hold and went on to dominate proceedings for a while. It no doubt helped to produce what is still the warmest August on record AFAIK and what was at the time the second hottest CET month on record, before it was pushed down into third place by July 2006. A fantastic spell which went al long way towards making summer 1995 the best one overall that I can recall for weather in my location.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Ally Pally Snowman
11 July 2017 19:07:28

A stunning ecm tonight while very warm in England , its France that absolutely boils 2003 esque if not even more extreme.


 If the ecm is correct tonight the Heat in France will be making headlines next week . 40c in Paris?


 


http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1922.html


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Hungry Tiger
11 July 2017 19:19:56


Oh just look at that:



Textbook. Dreamy. The summer equivalent of a 1050hPa Greenland high in January.


Originally Posted by: TimS 


My goodness.


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


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