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xioni2
01 April 2020 19:37:24

Just a reminder that this happened on the 10th of March, days after Italian ICU doctors were begging all European countries to lockdown immediately. The next week our govt asked us not to go to pubs and restaurants (only for the PM's father to proudly say that he'd ignore that advice).


Ulric
01 April 2020 19:40:54
I think that most European states will follow similar trajectories with differences arising from demographics, core strength of healthcare systems and the effectiveness of the initial response. The places I'm worried about are the US where there is a major crisis brewing, and India which has very little resource with which to fight this. I think Brazil will get ugly too.
To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
Hungry Tiger
01 April 2020 19:40:58


Just a reminder that this happened on the 10th of March, days after Italian ICU doctors were begging all European countries to lockdown immediately. The next week our govt asked us not to go to pubs and restaurants (only for the PM's father to proudly say that he'd ignore that advice).



Originally Posted by: xioni2 


 


yes but things changed very rapidly after that.


Gavin S. FRmetS.
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xioni2
01 April 2020 19:43:31


 I don’t like to answer for people, but I wonder if Italy’s decline will be slower and more prolonged.


Take today for instance. They still have 4k cases coming through the system daily. We only hit 4k today and look at our recent deaths.


Italys deaths will come down, but I think look at these numbers it will be a long slog. 


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


Who knows of course, but I think the drop in the number of deaths in the UK will also be gradual and slow. We didn't use a hammer approach (some countries like Greece did and they have avoided the surge completely) and we implemented physical distancing in a more gradual manner. Many people didn't wait for the govt to act and as soon as they started seeing the images and the numbers from Italy, they started distancing during 10-23 March. The official lockdown only started on the 24th and that will only affect deaths after mid-April.

Maunder Minimum
01 April 2020 19:49:06

I think that most European states will follow similar trajectories with differences arising from demographics, core strength of healthcare systems and the effectiveness of the initial response. The places I'm worried about are the US where there is a major crisis brewing, and India which has very little resource with which to fight this. I think Brazil will get ugly too.

Originally Posted by: Ulric 


Agreed, but you omitted Pakistan, which in many respects is even more creaky than India.


New world order coming.
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
01 April 2020 19:50:03


Just a reminder that this happened on the 10th of March, days after Italian ICU doctors were begging all European countries to lockdown immediately. The next week our govt asked us not to go to pubs and restaurants (only for the PM's father to proudly say that he'd ignore that advice).



Originally Posted by: xioni2 


According to The Times..


Covid-19 risk was deemed moderate by scientists


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-risk-was-deemed-moderate-by-scientists-x5lwlztz3


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Gavin D
01 April 2020 19:54:05

Over 700 people have died in London from Coronavirus so far



  • London - 727 (34.0%)

  • Midlands - 437 (20.5%)

  • South East - 251 (11.8%)

  • North West - 211 (9.9%)

  • North East and Yorkshire - 211 (9.9%)

  • East of England - 178 (8.3%)

  • South West - 121 (5.7%)


30 deaths are not yet known by NHS trust.


London North West University Healthcare NHS Trust have recorded the most deaths so far with 113

xioni2
01 April 2020 19:57:58

No matter how fair I try to be to the govt, some numbers are truly shocking. Just 2,000 frontline NHS staff have been tested out of a total of ~125,000 who are self isolating. So just 1.6% of frontline medics who are off work have been tested, when many of them could have something else other than covid and they could be working. This is so unfair for their colleagues and their patients and a complete fiasco.

pfw
  • pfw
  • Advanced Member
01 April 2020 19:58:19

Sweden will also continue to be a country to follow


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/sweden-defies-lockdown-trend-bets-citizens-acting-responsibly-n1172781


They have put in place low level restrictions and are counting on people behaving responsibly and other demographic and cultural factors as far as I can see. With primary schools still open this strikes me as very risky, and the report covers a spike in ICU admissions but time will tell. There is clearly a lot of disagreement among Swedish experts on this.


--
Paul.
Ulric
01 April 2020 20:04:43


 


Agreed, but you omitted Pakistan, which in many respects is even more creaky than India.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


We could go on. Malaysia, Indonesia, Myanmar, Bangladesh.....


India and America stand out because of the sheer size of their respective (and different) problems.


To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
Maunder Minimum
01 April 2020 20:08:46


Sweden will also continue to be a country to follow


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/sweden-defies-lockdown-trend-bets-citizens-acting-responsibly-n1172781


They have put in place low level restrictions and are counting on people behaving responsibly and other demographic and cultural factors as far as I can see. With primary schools still open this strikes me as very risky, and the report covers a spike in ICU admissions but time will tell. There is clearly a lot of disagreement among Swedish experts on this.


Originally Posted by: pfw 


Didn't you see this article from Sweden I posted the other day - there has been a leak of government information which is quite alarming - use google translate:


https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/BRK34E/sa-ska-stockholm-hantera-overfulla-sjukhus--om-en-vecka


"


Healthcare in Stockholm is now entering the "next phase of the pandemic".


This is how the situation is described in previously unknown documents from the Stockholm region .
The documents are a guiding forecast for primary care providers, that is, the majority of care that is not performed in hospitals.


The documents dated March 27 show that it is no longer possible to "keep away the patients in the same way in primary care, must begin to manage the flow of patients with infected patients" because in future it will no longer be possible to refer to the hospitals.


The background is according to the documents that as many as 10 percent of all patients with corona symptoms are expected to need hospital care.


However, as the hospital sites are limited, the Stockholm region has set an expected end date for when the intensive care units and the hospital beds are expected to run out of capacity in the Stockholm region.


According to the forecast described in the documents, the locations will run out of capacity on April 7. The maximum number of healthcare needs, the so-called peak, is expected to fall on April 29.


With the sharpened situation, primary care should now focus on ensuring the highest possible quality with the addition that "lowered quality may need to be accepted, can no longer strive for maintained quality".


The documents also show that plans are being made for fewer staff to handle more patients. In order to succeed, the region also wants to take care of corona patients in the home within the framework of ASIH, advanced in-home healthcare. They also want to plan to establish a new form of care, so to speak, especially residential care accommodation, which is an intermediate step between home health care and the elderly care, where exclusively corona-infected elderly people are cared for "under the same roof".


To separate the corona patients' coronation patients from other patients, the Stockholm region wants to open up special infection nodes, that 3-4 medical centers merge to receive corona patients in one place.


At the same time, physicians in primary care should be quickly trained across the web in palliative care, that is, care in the end stage of life. According to the documents, the palliative care should also be expected in home health care, that is, in the patient's own home."


 


 


New world order coming.
Saint Snow
01 April 2020 20:12:39


 


 


yes but things changed very rapidly after that.


Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 


 


Yes, the stable door was slammed shut with haste.


Pity the equine residents had already jogged off.


Allowing the Cheltenham Festival was rank stupidity, and smacks of giving the establishment elite one last jolly before shutting everything down. 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
01 April 2020 20:20:01


 


 


Yes, the stable door was slammed shut with haste.


Pity the equine residents had already jogged off.


Allowing the Cheltenham Festival was rank stupidity, and smacks of giving the establishment elite one last jolly before shutting everything down. 


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Had it been the International Darts Championship...


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Maunder Minimum
01 April 2020 20:22:28

I know April Fools are frowned on today, but I liked this one:



New world order coming.
Saint Snow
01 April 2020 20:24:11


Quite decent article here


If there was a moment when the UK turned its back on the traditional public health approach to fighting an epidemic, this was it. Ebola, Sars, Mers – in previous epidemics, nobody had questioned the need to hunt down and eliminate the virus by testing everyone with symptoms, tracking their contacts and isolating and testing those people in turn. But not this time.


According to Richard Horton, editor-in-chief of the Lancet medical journal, the dominant voices in the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), the scientific expert group advising the government, were mathematical modellers and behavioural scientists, including Halpern.


On 25 March, Horton told MPs on the science and technology select committee that Sage appeared to have little input from public health experts and doctors, despite being chaired by the chief medical officer, Chris Whitty, and the chief scientific officer, Sir Patrick Vallance.


The clue for Horton was in the main papers it considered in advising the government of the strategy.


“There is evidence on modelling and on behavioural science, but I don’t see the evidence from the public health community or from the clinical community,” he explained.


Testing, isolation and quarantine – basic public health interventions – were barely on the agenda. Warnings from Chinese scientists of the severity of Covid-19 had not been understood.


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


 


That's a superb and scarily revealing article. 


I just hope the catastrophic errors, misjudgments and bullsh*t/lies are vividly exposed once this all calms down.


This government of liars and shysters shouldn't be allowed to con the British public yet again. But no doubt they'll be able to deflect blame and the plebs will fall for it.



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Gandalf The White
01 April 2020 20:34:00


 


 


Yes, the stable door was slammed shut with haste.


Pity the equine residents had already jogged off.


Allowing the Cheltenham Festival was rank stupidity, and smacks of giving the establishment elite one last jolly before shutting everything down. 


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


At the time of the Cheltenham Festival the position in the UK can be judged from the chart:


H


 


Total attendance was 250,000. With known cases in the U.K. being only a couple of hundred or so, the likelihood was that somewhere between zero and a couple of people might have been there whilst carrying Covid-19.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


xioni2
01 April 2020 20:37:54


 


At the time of the Cheltenham Festival the position in the UK can be judged from the chart:


 Total attendance was 250,000. With known cases in the U.K. being only a couple of hundred or so, the likelihood was that somewhere between zero and a couple of people might have been there whilst carrying Covid-19.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Only for the govt's own scientific advisors themselves saying a few days later in public that the real number of infections is much higher than the number of confirmed ones.

Darren S
01 April 2020 20:41:04

I think this proves that you can't determine very much from daily variations in new cases; you need to look at a rolling average.


This is the number of cases in my local authority, Wokingham, over the last 2 weeks.





























































19/03/20209
20/03/202012
21/03/202013
22/03/202013
23/03/202013
24/03/202013
25/03/202013
26/03/202013
27/03/202022
28/03/202023
29/03/202023
30/03/202023
31/03/202024
01/04/202067

The number of cases nearly tripled today. I assume that some areas are only reporting some days?


Darren
Crowthorne, Berks (87m asl)
South Berks Winter Snow Depth Totals:
2023/24 0 cm; 2022/23 7 cm; 2021/22 1 cm; 2020/21 13 cm; 2019/20 0 cm; 2018/19 14 cm; 2017/18 23 cm; 2016/17 0 cm; 2015/16 0.5 cm; 2014/15 3.5 cm; 2013/14 0 cm; 2012/13 22 cm; 2011/12 7 cm; 2010/11 6 cm; 2009/10 51 cm
tierradelfuego
01 April 2020 20:47:19


 


Only for the govt's own scientific advisors themselves saying a few days later in public that the real number of infections is much higher than the number of confirmed ones.


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


 


and take into account the numbers, who possibly given the audience had just traveled overseas, and it was a recipe...


 


One friend of ours either had it or something similar a few days after going to the whole race meet, two days later their wife went down with the same thing. The brother of the friend who went, had a few days earlier come back from skiing in Northern Italy.


Bucklebury
West Berkshire Downs AONB
135m ASL

VP2 with daytime FARS
Rainfall collector separated at ground level
Anemometer separated above roof level
WeatherLink Live (Byles Green Weather)
xioni2
01 April 2020 20:49:50


 That's a superb and scarily revealing article. 


I just hope the catastrophic errors, misjudgments and bullsh*t/lies are vividly exposed once this all calms down.


This government of liars and shysters shouldn't be allowed to con the British public yet again. But no doubt they'll be able to deflect blame and the plebs will fall for it.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


The worst for me is that they are not honest. They could say we had that policy in place for these reasons, but we had to change course on the basis of new data we are now doing everything possible, but it's very difficult. Contrast this with the greek PM who went public on the 11th of March and said no matter what the govt did their healthcare system would not be able to cope and the only way to prevent hundreds of thousands of deaths was to shut down the economy immediately.


There were more than 100 schools from Greece visiting N.Italy in february and Greece has a very aged population, mostly living in flats and a poor public health care system. Greece now has just ~1400 infections and ~50 deaths.

tierradelfuego
01 April 2020 20:50:58


I think this proves that you can't determine very much from daily variations in new cases; you need to look at a rolling average.


This is the number of cases in my local authority, Wokingham, over the last 2 weeks.The number of cases nearly tripled today. I assume that some areas are only reporting some days?


Originally Posted by: Darren S 


 


West Berks was the same Darren, today. A comparatively sizable increase albeit from a small base number, although nowhere near tripled tbh. I wonder how it works though in terms of the figures. If someone from Wokingham or a village near Newbury, as we are, was admitted to hospital, surely they would be admitted to the RBH in Reading and then fall under the Reading numbers, or do they take the data based on home address?


Bucklebury
West Berkshire Downs AONB
135m ASL

VP2 with daytime FARS
Rainfall collector separated at ground level
Anemometer separated above roof level
WeatherLink Live (Byles Green Weather)
Phil G
01 April 2020 20:56:06


Over 700 people have died in London from Coronavirus so far



  • London - 727 (34.0%)

  • Midlands - 437 (20.5%)

  • South East - 251 (11.8%)

  • North West - 211 (9.9%)

  • North East and Yorkshire - 211 (9.9%)

  • East of England - 178 (8.3%)

  • South West - 121 (5.7%)


30 deaths are not yet known by NHS trust.


London North West University Healthcare NHS Trust have recorded the most deaths so far with 113


Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


Hi Gavin. I know it will be very low but are you able to put a percentage of death as part of the population in that region. Wondered though certain areas might be low, as a % of their own base they were higher than the larger regions?

Brian Gaze
01 April 2020 20:56:52

GMC 3172375 calls for Whitty, Vallance and Johnson to be put on trial. 




Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Bugglesgate
01 April 2020 21:05:31


GMC 3172375 calls for Whitty, Vallance and Johnson to be put on trial. 




Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


 


Just becuase he's a Dr. doesn't mean he's not a pillock !


Chris (It,its)
Between Newbury and Basingstoke
"When they are giving you their all, some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy banging your heart against some mad buggers wall"
doctormog
01 April 2020 21:08:22


 


 


Just becuase he's a Dr. doesn't mean he's not a pillock !


Originally Posted by: Bugglesgate 


I take it you have read his Twitter feed too? 


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