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DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
13 April 2020 05:35:12

Not a day to dwell on the significance of the number 13


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
13 April 2020 06:22:13

Continuing from the previous thread and the question of religious gatherings.  I’m not particularly religious but I respect the choice of those who are.  This must be a really difficult time for those of certain faiths for whom togetherness is a big part of their faith.  


I know it’s against current regulations but I think at times of need, togetherness is even more important.  I’m not for one minute suggesting they should be excepted from the rules and I don’t condone such gatherings.  However, I do think we could be a little more understanding and less critical of them. We’re all in this together but we all have different needs and circumstances. 


Rant over!  


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.
Roger Parsons
13 April 2020 06:33:23


Continuing from the previous thread and the question of religious gatherings.  I’m not particularly religious but I respect the choice of those who are.  This must be a really difficult time for those of certain faiths for whom togetherness is a big part of their faith.  


I know it’s against current regulations but I think at times of need, togetherness is even more important.  I’m not for one minute suggesting they should be excepted from the rules and I don’t condone such gatherings.  However, I do think we could be a little more understanding and less critical of them. We’re all in this together but we all have different needs and circumstances. 


Rant over!  


Originally Posted by: Caz 


You are right that many churchgoers are missing their get togethers, Caz. All Christian religious activity here is now on-line and in the media - with the exception of ministers doing funeral services on their own. I can't speak for other faiths. This ranges from on-line live and recorded services, zoom and youtube, facebook, forums and ordinary email contacts. And the phone of course. The local churches spearheaded a local helpline and food voucher project supported by local donations. 


All the natural history organisations stopped meetings some time back - and the e-newsletter I edit every week details their cancellations and promotes suggestions for safe observing and recording.


Roger


 


RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
13 April 2020 06:50:34

Dilemma in the southern US - crowd into a tornado shelter and risk Covid infection or stay out and risk the tornado? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52239262


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Gavin D
13 April 2020 07:18:10

​Doctors frustrated by delays in plasma therapy trials for COVID-19 patients




Quote

 


Doctors in the UK say they're increasingly frustrated the government has yet to approve trials for plasma therapy to help treat coronavirus patients. The therapy involves extracting plasma from the blood of people who have recovered from the virus, and giving it to those who are critically ill. The idea is that antibodies produced by patients who have had survived the virus will boost the immune systems of those who are trying to beat the disease.


Trials are already under way in other countries including China, France, Germany and the US but no decision has been made in the UK. Dr Colin Hamilton-Davies leads the acute cardiac critical care unit at Bart's Hospital in London and has spent 30 years looking at this line of research. He said lives could be saved if action is taken immediately. "We have a national health service and blood service that is the envy of the world, we have a very substantially-sized department of blood transfusion, and for people harvesting blood plasma, we could step it up within a week. "We could be administering it, not just to one or two people, but hundreds of patients."


 





https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-doctors-frustrated-by-delays-in-plasma-therapy-trials-for-covid-19-patients-11972462?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter


​

Roger Parsons
13 April 2020 07:27:04


Not a day to dwell on the significance of the number 13


Originally Posted by: DEW 


You would have expected a nuclear power like the UK would also make provision for the aftermath of an exchange of weapons. Remember Protect and Survive?


https://digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/document/110193


So....


Coronavirus: Body-bag stocks 'in danger of running out'


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52205655


Roger


RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
bledur
13 April 2020 08:20:05


​Doctors frustrated by delays in plasma therapy trials for COVID-19 patients




Quote

 


Doctors in the UK say they're increasingly frustrated the government has yet to approve trials for plasma therapy to help treat coronavirus patients. The therapy involves extracting plasma from the blood of people who have recovered from the virus, and giving it to those who are critically ill. The idea is that antibodies produced by patients who have had survived the virus will boost the immune systems of those who are trying to beat the disease.


Trials are already under way in other countries including China, France, Germany and the US but no decision has been made in the UK. Dr Colin Hamilton-Davies leads the acute cardiac critical care unit at Bart's Hospital in London and has spent 30 years looking at this line of research. He said lives could be saved if action is taken immediately. "We have a national health service and blood service that is the envy of the world, we have a very substantially-sized department of blood transfusion, and for people harvesting blood plasma, we could step it up within a week. "We could be administering it, not just to one or two people, but hundreds of patients."


 





https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-doctors-frustrated-by-delays-in-plasma-therapy-trials-for-covid-19-patients-11972462?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter


​Not sure why it needs trialling as it is a very old method of combating disease used before modern drug therapy.


Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

doctormog
13 April 2020 08:32:20
It needs trialling as it is not scientifically proven to be effective or more importantly safe. As easy as it seems to say just start using this therapy, medical history is full of examples showing why that is really not a good idea. Small scale trials absolutely, but rolling it out without proper clinical trials would be medical and scientific insanity.
Roger Parsons
13 April 2020 08:35:22


https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-doctors-frustrated-by-delays-in-plasma-therapy-trials-for-covid-19-patients-11972462?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter


​Not sure why it needs trialling as it is a very old method of combating disease used before modern drug therapy.


 

Originally Posted by: bledur 


You are right, bledur, there is a lot of such history we have forgotten.


A neighbour in his 70s told me that his father had survived "Spanish 'Flu" and had asked for a blood transfusion to be given to his son. This was done and my informant  wonders if he may still have some immunity - tho' whether that would offer any benefit in CO-19 is difficult to imagine.


I have mentioned another neighbour who contracted Polio in the 50s and was in an isolation hospital for some time. His dad, a farm worker, was compelled to be a lone worker for the duration - on his own in remote parts of the farm.


As schoolkids we had to dip our hands into pot permanganate solution [during a Polio scare] after using the toilet. Wash, shake, dip...


Roger


RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
doctormog
13 April 2020 08:38:05


 


You are right, bledur, there is a lot of such history we have forgotten.


A neighbour in his 70s told me that his father had survived "Spanish 'Flu" and had asked for a blood transfusion to be given to his son. This was done and my informant  wonders if he may still have some immunity - tho' whether that would offer any benefit in CO-19 is difficult to imagine.


I have mentioned another neighbour who contracted Polio in the 50s and was in an isolation hospital for some time. His dad, a farm worker, was compelled to be a lone worker for the duration - on his own in remote parts of the farm.


As schoolkids we had to dip our hands into pot permanganate solution [during a Polio scare] after using the toilet. Wash, shake, dip...


Roger


Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons 


One way to get a tan... 


Roger Parsons
13 April 2020 08:39:49


One way to get a tan... 


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Not if you are quick!


R.


RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
bledur
13 April 2020 08:42:43

It needs trialling as it is not scientifically proven to be effective or more importantly safe. As easy as it seems to say just start using this therapy, medical history is full of examples showing why that is really not a good idea. Small scale trials absolutely, but rolling it out without proper clinical trials would be medical and scientific insanity.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


 I thought i read they were using it nearly straight away in the U.S. in this current Covid 19 outbreak.

Roger Parsons
13 April 2020 08:46:38
Just read this interesting piece...
What Boris Johnson's Greek hero teaches us about epidemics
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52236388 

R.

RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
doctormog
13 April 2020 08:59:30


 


 I thought i read they were using it nearly straight away in the U.S. in this current Covid 19 outbreak.


Originally Posted by: bledur 


I suspect there are small scale trials and experimental studies but no it has not yet been approved as a widespread treatment by the FDA. (See here https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/investigational-new-drug-ind-or-device-exemption-ide-process-cber/recommendations-investigational-covid-19-convalescent-plasma )


Hopefully there will be treatments available within the coming months but the longer the trials are the higher the confidence in the safety and efficacy.


There does of course have to be a balance but implementing treatment without full safety trials is a recipe for disaster. The reason we know to do that now is because of what has happened when we didn’t do it on the past.


Phil G
13 April 2020 09:04:39


Continuing from the previous thread and the question of religious gatherings.  I’m not particularly religious but I respect the choice of those who are.  This must be a really difficult time for those of certain faiths for whom togetherness is a big part of their faith.  


I know it’s against current regulations but I think at times of need, togetherness is even more important.  I’m not for one minute suggesting they should be excepted from the rules and I don’t condone such gatherings.  However, I do think we could be a little more understanding and less critical of them. We’re all in this together but we all have different needs and circumstances. 


Rant over!  


Originally Posted by: Caz 


I really can't believe this post. What religion before life and death! Beggars belief. Even the pope done his service remotely. They will survive if they temporarily change the way they pray, but they won't if they carry on as they are, and nor will we. Our paths cross in the supermarkets which are a haven to catch something. Yes we are all in this together, so why not comply like the rest of us. They need their heads banging to get the message in, and some do on here as well!

RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
13 April 2020 09:06:05


 


 I thought i read they were using it nearly straight away in the U.S. in this current Covid 19 outbreak.


Originally Posted by: bledur 


It's been reported that "experiments" have been carried out in China - not clinical trials


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/plasma-from-coronavirus-survivors-found-to-help-severely-ill-patients


https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2763983


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Brian Gaze
13 April 2020 09:16:59

I have concerns about the mass adoption of plasma therapy. Perhaps those with more medical knowledge can reassure me. In particular:


1) Is there a risk of other known viruses being transferred to patients (e.g Hep C, HIV)


2)  Is there a risk of currently unknown viruses which may be circulating at very low levels and (possibly) harmlessly becoming widespread and potentially deadly? 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
llamedos
13 April 2020 09:18:39

I don't recall this being posted yesterday? Bill Gates' opinion that nobody made preparations when a pandemic was inevitable.


 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-52233966/bill-gates-few-countries-will-get-a-grade-for-coronavirus-response


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
doctormog
13 April 2020 09:26:42


I have concerns about the mass adoption of plasma therapy. Perhaps those with more medical knowledge can reassure me. In particular:


1) Is there a risk of other known viruses being transferred to patients (e.g Hep C, HIV)


2)  Is there a risk of currently unknown viruses which may be circulating at very low levels and (possibly) harmlessly becoming widespread and potentially deadly? 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


In answer to 1 the plasma would be screened for HIV and other viruses (certainly in this country). In answer to 2 in theory it could be a risk however the precautions used in normal blood and plasma transfusions would make such a risk negligible.


Re. Bill Gates, if you haven’t seen his 2015 TED talk it is well worth a watch.


Brian Gaze
13 April 2020 09:31:13


 


In answer to 1 the plasma would be screened for HIV and other viruses (certainly in this country). In answer to 2 in theory it could be a risk however the precautions used in normal blood and plasma transfusions would make such a risk negligible.


Re. Bill Gates, if you haven’t seen hus 2015 TED talk it is well worth a watch.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


 Thanks. I'll check out the Bill Gates talk. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
llamedos
13 April 2020 09:35:45

Bill Gates ....TED talks 2015


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
SJV
13 April 2020 09:46:43


 


What religion before life and death! Beggars belief. Even the pope done his service remotely. They will survive if they temporarily change the way they pray, but they won't if they carry on as they are, and nor will we. Our paths cross in the supermarkets which are a haven to catch something. Yes we are all in this together, so why not comply like the rest of us. They need their heads banging to get the message in, and some do on here as well!


Originally Posted by: Phil G 



Religion cannot present itself as a valid excuse in times like this. Gatherings for whatever reason needlessly risk lives.


Sensible religious people will observe guidelines and do the right thing, I have no doubt on that. Those that don't are or not of sound mind and are dangerous to society.


edit: I have no problem with Caz's post, mind you. She provided a balanced opinion and didn't condone, merely understood why it might be difficult for certain groups to comply. Personally, I don't understand why people would risk and effectively sentence others of their ilk to their deaths through negligence but I'm not religious.

Brian Gaze
13 April 2020 09:49:28


 



Religion cannot present itself as a valid excuse in times like this. Gatherings for whatever reason needlessly risk lives.


Sensible religious people will observe guidelines and do the right thing, I have no doubt on that. Those that don't are or not of sound mind and are dangerous to society.


Originally Posted by: SJV 


 Indeed. They should remember that by not following the rules they are endangering other people and not just themselves. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Sevendust
13 April 2020 09:49:54


 



Religion cannot present itself as a valid excuse in times like this. Gatherings for whatever reason needlessly risk lives.


Sensible religious people will observe guidelines and do the right thing, I have no doubt on that. Those that don't are or not of sound mind and are dangerous to society.


edit: I have no problem with Caz's post, mind you. She provided a balanced opinion and didn't condone, merely understood why it might be difficult for certain groups to comply. Personally, I don't understand why people would risk and effectively sentence others of their ilk to their deaths through negligence but I'm not religious.


Originally Posted by: SJV 


Agreed

Gooner
13 April 2020 09:53:26


Bill Gates ....TED talks 2015


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI


Originally Posted by: llamedos 


Incredible how very few people listened to him after that speech 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


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