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Roger Parsons
13 April 2020 20:33:34


Going back to pubs for a moment another serious problem would be the loos. How on earth would access to them be controlled? In most of the pubs here you would only be able to have one person going into the gents (or ladies from what I am told ) at a time if social distancing was to be enforced. Therein lies another problem. Getting to the loos would mean breaking social distancing rules too because in most cases you have to walk past people to get to them. We'd also have long queues forming with the one person at a time rule. The more I think about pubs the more issues I can see. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Read this with interest, Brian - and then brain generated image of attendant in full PPE handing out a couple of sheets of bog paper - rather as the French used to do in the 50s. I shall have a drink and try to forget ...



RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
Gandalf The White
13 April 2020 20:34:39


 


People panicked about brexit unnecessarily, people didn't panic enough about COVID.


Those who panicked about at least 1 of them are going to be in a better position now. It turned out there was a disaster, just not the one people thought there would be.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


But it would be stupidity of the first order to have, like proverbial London buses, two disasters one after the other.


We don't need Brexit delayed; we need it to be cancelled.


Who would have looked after Boris if the Portuguese nurse had gone home because he'd made him feel undervalued?


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Gandalf The White
13 April 2020 20:38:00


 


You are delusional - brexit has left us with a shortage of nurses just when we need them most


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/24/nhs-winter-crisis-thousands-eu-staff-quit


Originally Posted by: RobN 


I find it depressing that whenever we get beyond Covid-19 we have Brexit still looming, with all the delusional nonsense that goes with it.


You'd hope that if we have learned anything from the Covid-19 crisis it is that we need reliable friends close by, not unreliable ones far away.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Quantum
13 April 2020 20:38:05


 


You are delusional - brexit has left us with a shortage of nurses just when we need them most


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/24/nhs-winter-crisis-thousands-eu-staff-quit


Originally Posted by: RobN 


Not true. For England:


In December 2019 there were 125119 doctors.


In June 2016 there were 110 084 doctors


 


In December 2019 there were 332 213 nurses+health visitoors


In June 2016 there were 318 358


 


These figures went up pretty much monotomically (i.e no matter what perior you pick as your start and end you will end up with pretty much the same end result). Ofc the Guardian has probably found a way to massage the statistics into saying what they want them to say. Probably by looking at just gross leaving figures or something.


So no shortage.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
13 April 2020 20:41:20


 


He is in denial.  Would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


See my above post. The idea that brexit caused a nursing shortage is just wrong. They have been montomically increasing since 2016.


And the really tragic thing is that people on here really were in denial back in January when it came to COVID.


 


Anyway I wasn't trying to make a political point, just in response to Beast bringing brexit into this discussion. The only point I made was that as a result of no deal preparations we are probably better off than we otherwise would have been.


Then again, I would have prepared more for COVID, you know back when everyone called me nuts for saying what was going to happen?


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
fairweather
13 April 2020 20:54:03


 


 so does brexit lessen the impact (albeit in a small way) of COVID.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


No.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Brian Gaze
13 April 2020 20:59:26


Hindsight is a wonderful thing so let's avoid it. If everyone else is wearing face masks Brits will want them too. Therefore, let's make sure we're not at the back of the queue. The UK government needs to urgently:


a) review its advice on face masks because it will almost certainly (rightly or wrongly) be forced to change it - so why not get ahead of the game now?


b) provide advice on types of face mask 


c) take measure to ensure people aren't ripped off when buying them


d) possibly use its buying power to purchase them in bulk for the UK population (I'm not talking FFP3 which is where the shortage is for medical staff)


 


Wearing face masks 'will become the norm'


Wearing facial protection will soon become normal, according to the World Health Organization's Covid-19 spokesman David Nabarro.


Speaking on Radio 4's Today programme, Nabarro said people had to come to terms with the new reality of living with the virus.


"This virus is not going to go away. We don't know whether people who have had the virus stay immune and we don't know when we will have a vaccine," he said.


"Some form of facial protection I am sure is going to become the norm, not least to give people reassurance. I think it will come because of what I am calling being Covid-19-ready."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52266235


 


 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Seems like the government is moving quickly on this:


It came as the government said it might change its advice on using face masks.


The UK's chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance told the daily Downing Street news conference an ongoing review was considering the guidance on whether people should wear face masks


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52273774


 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
13 April 2020 21:00:41


From what I've seen, most epidemiologists are sceptical of the reinfection stories, with reactivation or faulty testing (either first or second time round) the most likely reasons - of course, not just faulty testing, but the margin of error in even very good testing.


Originally Posted by: NickR 


Re-activation seems real enough in two cases known to me (a great niece, and an employee in my daughter's firm) both felt they had recovered from the initial bout of Covid but a week or so later had a bad couple of days before recovering again. This ties in with the folk wisdom of 'not being able to shake off a cold' - a 'cold' being not infrequently caused by a different coronavirus


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Brian Gaze
13 April 2020 21:05:20

Our experts appear to have all bases covered when it comes to testing: 




Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
NickR
13 April 2020 21:10:00

This... this is fcking terrifying. We need to think long and hard before removing restrictions and letting infection levels rise again:


https://twitter.com/J_Bloodworth/status/1249794092634124293?s=19


 


(Correct link.)


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
NickR
13 April 2020 21:11:48
Sorry - now put correct link in post above.
Nick
Durham
[email protected]
doctormog
13 April 2020 21:13:37


 


Seems like the government is moving quickly on this:


It came as the government said it might change its advice on using face masks.


The UK's chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance told the daily Downing Street news conference an ongoing review was considering the guidance on whether people should wear face masks


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52273774


 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


It seems like the same evidence-based approach that has been taken all along


”Asked by the BBC's David Shukman whether the government could change its advice to the British public on wearing face masks while outside, Sir Patrick said that, if evidence supported it, the guidance could change.


He added that the government had already seen "more persuasive" data suggesting masks can stop a person passing the virus to someone else, rather than preventing them from catching it.


The World Health Organization said it remains the case that medical masks should be reserved for healthcare workers, not the general public.”


It will not change unless there is a clear benefit from a body of evidence no matter how people try to spin things. That’s how these things work. They are evidence based, not to be mocked or laughed at, no “I told you so” with a silly emoticon. The insinuation we know better than those (like the WHO) would be annoying if it wasn’t so ludicrous.


The WHO don’t just pop onto the BBC or Twitter to formulate their policies. If the body of evidence evolves so will the policies, it’s not a difficult concept surely? It doesn’t mean when we guessed one option we were some how more informed and “knew it all along”.


Gandalf The White
13 April 2020 21:22:58


 


Not true. For England:


In December 2019 there were 125119 doctors.


In June 2016 there were 110 084 doctors


 


In December 2019 there were 332 213 nurses+health visitoors


In June 2016 there were 318 358


 


So no shortage.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Yet there were 43,000 vacancies for nursing staff as of October last year and that won't have changed very much


https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/workforce/nhs-nurse-vacancies-in-england-rise-to-more-than-43000-08-10-2019/


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Gandalf The White
13 April 2020 21:27:59


 


It seems like the same evidence-based approach that has been taken all along


”Asked by the BBC's David Shukman whether the government could change its advice to the British public on wearing face masks while outside, Sir Patrick said that, if evidence supported it, the guidance could change.


He added that the government had already seen "more persuasive" data suggesting masks can stop a person passing the virus to someone else, rather than preventing them from catching it.


The World Health Organization said it remains the case that medical masks should be reserved for healthcare workers, not the general public.”


It will not change unless there is a clear benefit from a body of evidence no matter how people try to spin things. That’s how these things work. They are evidence based, not to be mocked or laughed at, no “I told you so” with a silly emoticon. The insinuation we know better than those (like the WHO) would be annoying if it wasn’t so ludicrous.


The WHO don’t just pop onto the BBC or Twitter to formulate their policies. If the body of evidence evolves so will the policies, it’s not a difficult concept surely? It doesn’t mean when we guessed one option we were some how more informed and “knew it all along”.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


As always, Michael, excellent.



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Joe Bloggs
13 April 2020 21:38:18


This... this is fcking terrifying. We need to think long and hard before removing restrictions and letting infection levels rise again:


https://twitter.com/J_Bloodworth/status/1249794092634124293?s=19


 


(Correct link.)


Originally Posted by: NickR 


Very scary. In all the commotion we’re not stopping to look at the actual effects of this virus on the human body. 


I hope to God there aren’t going to be long term effect of the virus, akin to HIV infection, for example. If so, this is a whole new ball game. 


Thankfully we don’t have any reliable data yet and these are still unknowns. Let’s hope for the best. 



Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

Bolty
13 April 2020 22:28:30


This... this is fcking terrifying. We need to think long and hard before removing restrictions and letting infection levels rise again:


https://twitter.com/J_Bloodworth/status/1249794092634124293?s=19


 


(Correct link.)


Originally Posted by: NickR 


Indeed Nick, I've seen some reports over the last few weeks of lingering lung damage in patients in South Korea, one of which I posted in these threads. I didn't think much of it at the time, as it was only evident in a few patients, but now we're clearly seeing more stories of recurring illness in survivours.


Really not good at all, and will need close monitoring.


Scott
Blackrod, Lancashire (4 miles south of Chorley) at 156m asl.
My weather station 
Gandalf The White
13 April 2020 22:40:32


This... this is fcking terrifying. We need to think long and hard before removing restrictions and letting infection levels rise again:


https://twitter.com/J_Bloodworth/status/1249794092634124293?s=19


 


(Correct link.)


Originally Posted by: NickR 


 


I found this article


https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-10/coronavirus-infection-can-do-lasting-damage-to-the-heart-liver


It confirms that there's evidence that SARS, MERS and Ebola all can result in longer term damage.  But it does emphasise that it's too early to be certain and that with other viruses some long term damage reduces or clears up over time - although it can be quite a long time.


It does also suggest that the longer-lasting damage seems to be linked to those that suffer a more severe illness and that those longer-term effects may be linked to why those patients suffer the more extreme illness.


 


But whatever the explanation it's clearly not good.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


The Beast from the East
13 April 2020 23:10:22

LOL Trump press briefing


Tony Fauci must have had a broken bottled shoved up his arse and his wife taken hostage


Trump then shows a propaganda video of how great he is and then falsely claims Sleepy Joe called him a racist


He basically spends 2 hours trolling! And he loves it!


 


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Roger Parsons
14 April 2020 05:00:25


 


I found this article


https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-10/coronavirus-infection-can-do-lasting-damage-to-the-heart-liver


It confirms that there's evidence that SARS, MERS and Ebola all can result in longer term damage.  But it does emphasise that it's too early to be certain and that with other viruses some long term damage reduces or clears up over time - although it can be quite a long time.


It does also suggest that the longer-lasting damage seems to be linked to those that suffer a more severe illness and that those longer-term effects may be linked to why those patients suffer the more extreme illness.


 


But whatever the explanation it's clearly not good.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Thanks, Gandalf - I'd picked up on this via:


https://uk.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-patients-suffered-strokes-other-neurological-symptoms-says-155200137.html


Very concerning - changes the time implications.


Keep healthy.


R.


RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830

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