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Rob K
14 January 2019 17:38:02


 


Maybe it is just my imagination, but deep frozen spells seem to be curiously lacking in January over the last decade or so. Nearly all of the deep cold events I can recall at least seem to have occurred in either December, February or as in the case in 2013 and 2018, March. I can't remember a similar event in January though, at least in recent times.


Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 


Similarly we haven't had a prolonged hot spell in August for a long time. Maybe not since 2003, although we have had some hot August days.


 


And back on topic the GFSP has almost the whole country snow covered by 186hrs. Nobody has a clue, least of all me.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
tallyho_83
14 January 2019 17:38:19

Very cold Para from GFS. Uncertainty, as ever, rules.

Originally Posted by: Arcus 


A big if and If the Para 12z run is correct then a week tomorrow we could be looking at a stiff northerly and frequent sleet/snow showers with temperatures barely getting above freezing by day:





Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Ally Pally Snowman
14 January 2019 17:47:15

Gotta love the Para after the northerly an easterly.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
moomin75
14 January 2019 17:47:22
The 12z GFS ensembles are continuing the trend upwards in terms of 850s.
Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Arcus
14 January 2019 17:48:24
Para doesn't quite kick on from there (I'll rephrase to "cold" rather than "very cold"), but encouraging to see those signs.
Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
tallyho_83
14 January 2019 17:49:16

First ice day of winter 2018/19 if this Para 12z run comes about:


Let's forget about the 0p run and focus on para? The OP run has been useless this winter!



 


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Brian Gaze
14 January 2019 17:52:23

I've accelerated the TWO GEFS process so charts are appearing about 30 mins earlier than usual this evening. 12z update looks quite mixed.


 



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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doctormog
14 January 2019 17:53:47

The 12z GFS ensembles are continuing the trend upwards in terms of 850s.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Moreso in the south, up here in the short term there has been and continues to be a cooling trend, in the longer term not much change.



Given the changes between runs I wouldn’t read too much into the longer outlook. One look at the GFSP will give you an idea of what is possible (whether iti is probable or not I suspect a different matter). I would expect the volatility to continue for a while yet.


 


Arcus
14 January 2019 17:54:56


First ice day of winter 2018/19 if this Para 12z run comes about:


Let's forget about the 0p run and focus on para? The OP run has been useless this winter


 


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


I wouldn't ignore any output Tally, but given that the GFS Op is often 4th best on the verification (actually 5th behind GEM sometimes) I would factor that in on where I place my faith in the output.


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Ally Pally Snowman
14 January 2019 18:02:33

The 12z GFS ensembles are continuing the trend upwards in terms of 850s.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 


 


Snow rows of 98 though not to be sniffed at. It's marginal down here but snow is possible from about the 19th onwards .


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
tallyho_83
14 January 2019 18:06:22


 


I wouldn't ignore any output Tally, but given that the GFS Op is often 4th best on the verification (actually 5th behind GEM sometimes) I would factor that in on where I place my faith in the output.


Originally Posted by: Arcus 


Well 12z Op run is far more blocked as you can see compared to the 06z run which shows little if any blocking and just zonality. So which is the best model output would you say? ECM?


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


jhall
14 January 2019 18:08:56


 


Maybe it is just my imagination, but deep frozen spells seem to be curiously lacking in January over the last decade or so. Nearly all of the deep cold events I can recall at least seem to have occurred in either December, February or as in the case in 2013 and 2018, March. I can't remember a similar event in January though, at least in recent times.


Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 


I've noticed that too. Easterlies have always tended to occur more often later in the winter, and may now be favoured over northerlies for cold weather - at least in the south - because the Arctic has warmed by so much in recent decades. For a really wintry January in my part of the world, you probably have to go back to 2010.


Cranleigh, Surrey
tallyho_83
14 January 2019 18:15:50

Average ensemble mean from N. Hemisphere view down at the end of each run! - After this mornings disappointment it's game on!


It's looking more blocked from 00z run with HP becoming more dominant over the Arctic/N.Pole regions as you can see we lose those dark blue colours and the jet taking a more southerly track each run:


00z run



06z



12z



 


The caveat is still that annoying Azores HP- which is so stubborn to move anywhere!!


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Arcus
14 January 2019 18:18:28


 


Well 12z Op run is far more blocked as you can see compared to the 06z run which shows little if any blocking and just zonality. So which is the best model output would you say? ECM?


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


In terms of verification it does sometimes vary, but it's usually ECM followed by UKMO (albeit it only runs out to T+144), followed by GFS Para, GFS Op and GEM.


 


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Rob K
14 January 2019 18:18:56

While the 850s may not look mega cold on the GFSP, the low pressure means that the air is colder than you might think, with 510-516dam thicknesses over most of the country, from a northerly.


 



Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
kmoorman
14 January 2019 18:19:13


I've accelerated the TWO GEFS process so charts are appearing about 30 mins earlier than usual this evening. 12z update looks quite mixed.


 



Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


 


We seem to have hit rock bottom in terms on Brighton Snow Rows....    58 is the magic number.



Home: Durrington, Worthing, West Sussex. (16 ASL)
Work: Canary Wharf, London
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doctormog
14 January 2019 18:21:49


 


In terms of verification it does sometimes vary, but it's usually ECM followed by UKMO (albeit it only runs out to T+144), followed by GFS Para, GFS Op and GEM.


 


Originally Posted by: Arcus 


Recently at least, at 144hr the GFS op is in 5th behind the GEM(CMC). The GFS(FV3) Which the current parallel GFSP model is a good way clear of the current GFS operational model and is also ahead of the GEM but still behind the UKMO and ECMWF


https://www.emc.ncep.noaa.gov/gmb/STATS/html/new_acz6.html 


Edit: On the subject of snow rows it’s nice to see the one for three days out for here sitting at 20. (Overall total is 175 FWIW)


jhall
14 January 2019 18:22:51


 


I wouldn't ignore any output Tally, but given that the GFS Op is often 4th best on the verification (actually 5th behind GEM sometimes) I would factor that in on where I place my faith in the output.


Originally Posted by: Arcus 


True, but Tally was referring to the GFSP there, which one would like to think would be somewhat better than the current operational GFS when it comes to verification.


Cranleigh, Surrey
Arcus
14 January 2019 18:26:27


 


Recently at least, at 144hr the GFS op is in 5th behind the GEM(CMC). The GFS(FV3) Which the current parallel GFSP model is a good way clear of the current GFS operational model and is also ahead of the GEM but still behind the UKMO and ECMWF


https://www.emc.ncep.noaa.gov/gmb/STATS/html/new_acz6.html 


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


I was looking at the 12z stats Doc, but yes the pattern is similar with GEM outperforming GFS Op on some of the timescales. 


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Arcus
14 January 2019 18:28:05


 


True, but Tally was referring to the GFSP there, which one would like to think would be somewhat better than the current operational GFS when it comes to verification.


Originally Posted by: jhall 


Tally was asking about ignoring the GFS Op in favour of the para, hence my comment relating to ignoring the GFS Op.


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Ally Pally Snowman
14 January 2019 18:37:45

Looks like the ECM has a snowy slider at 144h nice upgrade 


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
kmoorman
14 January 2019 18:41:46


Looks like the ECM has a snowy slider at 144h nice upgrade 


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


I was about to question it, but then I looked at the 850hpa temps and they are satisfyingly low.


Home: Durrington, Worthing, West Sussex. (16 ASL)
Work: Canary Wharf, London
Follow me on Twitter @kmoorman1968
fairweather
14 January 2019 18:53:04

The 12z GFS ensembles are continuing the trend upwards in terms of 850s.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Mean gone from -7C briefly to -3C now. I still think Saturday will be about the time we can be confident or not about the rest of January being cold. 


S.Essex, 42m ASL
idj20
14 January 2019 18:55:00

Even the ECM is showing a bombing low diving SEwards over the UK at around the 23rd - just like the GFS's 12z as mentioned by me earlier on this afternoon. Should that verify, I think that will be a bigger issue than short lived transitory wintry events.


Folkestone Harbour. 
Arcus
14 January 2019 18:55:07

Hmmmm. Interesting.



Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
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