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idj20
15 January 2019 10:36:51

Those living at the East Coast can put away the worry beads for now as yesterday's bombing low for the 23rd is being replaced by a ridging high on the latest GFS run. Although ECM's easterly would make it feel particularly bleak even without the snow. 


Folkestone Harbour. 
Gavin D
15 January 2019 10:40:01

These changes from GFS are comical in 6hrs we've gone from a hurricane style low over Iceland to relatively calm


gfs-0-234.thumb.png.18fe8b8dd2e3e77da25ef549cedcfe97.pnggfs-0-228.thumb.png.107e07bc57a309a427c45566d501ba98.png

Jeff
  • Jeff
  • Advanced Member
15 January 2019 10:40:16
Actually,it was the PARA at 210 I meant to post for comparison

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSPARAEU12_210_1.png 
On the East/West Sussex Border
70m ASL
Gary L
15 January 2019 10:41:01

ECM 850s in the ENS are -5c or below right out to the end (29th Jan)

Russwirral
15 January 2019 10:46:09

I remember in 2013 we had very similar charts that were seemingly close to a snowy situation, with marginal uppers, then within 48 hrs the cold air dug its heels in and the charts would look very snowy, with the LPs sliding south.  This ECM chart screams of that setup.


 


We will see


 


Netweather GFS Image


fairweather
15 January 2019 10:46:22

The gfs model is so erratic at the moment I said yesterday totally confused with model showing no sign of any strat downwelling.
The output is so poor and inconsistent. Almost certainly data issues after reading some information on model thread in other forum.
Best to ignore gfs output until shutdown is over.

Originally Posted by: DPower 


It isn't. Not if you look at the ensembles and ignore the far reaches that only it shows. If you stick to T+240 and the ensembles it has been quite consistent and no more inconsistent than the other models in the same time frame and if we do not get decent snow and cold next week it will have been the model that hinted at the problem with the ridging of the Azores HP first. With GFS coming out every 6 hours and quoting in the distant unreliable frame it always appears that way. It just comes under more scrutiny when people are looking at possible cold. It is a case of if you say it enough people will believe it and there is too much of that going on these days!


S.Essex, 42m ASL
AJ*
  • AJ*
  • Advanced Member
15 January 2019 10:49:21


 ...


 However, I would expect all checks to be fully automatic because there wouldn't be time for manual ones. What probably happens is an alert is triggered when data is missing or anomalous and a case assigned to it for investigation.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


It could be that alerts are being generated for manual investigation and there is no-one on duty to investigate and correct them, or even to let anyone know that such alerts are being generated.  As Doc's original quote reported:



...

“But in the meantime, the current Global Forecast System — or the GFS — the United States' premier weather model, is running poorly, and there’s no one on duty to fix it.


...

"The Environmental Modeling Center was working to adjust for the new formats when the shutdown started. Saha said that even though the Weather Service is getting the data, the GFS doesn’t recognize the format, so it can’t use it ... ”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2019/01/07/national-weather-service-is-open-your-forecast-is-worse-because-shutdown/?utm_term=.f4e9dec4af1d

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


I guess that the most we can say about this situation is that we don't know how bad the situation is.


Angus; one of the Kent crew on TWO.
Tonbridge, 40m (131ft) asl
Rob K
15 January 2019 10:50:27
Another variation from GFS today building HP across the country and keeping it there for more boring weather.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
tallyho_83
15 January 2019 10:51:41

Just when you think there is the start of a potentially fantastic set up it all goes Tong:



 



 




Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


tallyho_83
15 January 2019 10:54:59

Signs of blocking in the 06z run toward the end of 0P run but look where all the cold air is going yet again?



Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Chunky Pea
15 January 2019 10:59:09

Another variation from GFS today building HP across the country and keeping it there for more boring weather.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Which is why I feel confident that this particular run has a high probability of verifying. 


 


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
Phil G
15 January 2019 11:04:00
GFS is all over the place. Data issues? Though we do see models at odds with each other on occasions.
To me you can't go more than a five days out at the moment. Little confidence thereafter.
DPower
15 January 2019 11:10:59

This Article in the Washington post on the 07/01/2019 goes someway to explain why the gfs model should be ignored until the shutdown is over.


 


http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/jan/07/the-national-weather-service-is-open-but-your-fore/


 

Phil G
15 January 2019 11:13:44


Those living at the East Coast can put away the worry beads for now as yesterday's bombing low for the 23rd is being replaced by a ridging high on the latest GFS run. Although ECM's easterly would make it feel particularly bleak even without the snow. 


Originally Posted by: idj20 


Yes Ian, quite a change and welcome. With such wildly different runs, who knows what will happen come the period. ECM's run would be "interesting" if that's the word for places in the Thames estuary. Sure the north Kent crew can comment for their area, but a set up like that around the 23rd/24th coupled with very high tides (higher than those which caused some coastal flooding in East Anglia) would lead to coastal flooding along the coast at Southend and some inland creeks in Essex. That easterly would create a surge of its own for the Thames.

Quantum
15 January 2019 11:16:30

Move away from the 'black hole low' today in the models. Seems like there is a desire to keep HP lingering over the UK next week. So below average temperatures definitely on the cards. Snow watchers are going to be disappointed by the outlook though.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Crepuscular Ray
15 January 2019 11:16:34
Time to roll out my yearly advice. Stick to 5 day Fax Charts....for your mental state, go no further!

I'm walking in the Lakes Friday and Saturday and the MetO Fax Charts are showing me bright, dry, frosty weather. Perfect. I'm hoping the front coming south on Wednesday night will give a dusting to the tops 👍
Jerry
Edinburgh, in the frost hollow below Blackford Hill
Quantum
15 January 2019 11:18:54


 


Which is why I feel confident that this particular run has a high probability of verifying. 


 


Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 


Indeed. I still think the best rule for model watching goes something like this.


If GFS and ECM both go for Mild then Mild will happen.


If GFS goes for Mild and ECM goes for cold then a disappointing middle will happen (with no snow).


If GFS goes for cold and ECM goes for Mild then Mild will happen


If GFS goes for cold and ECM goes for cold then whichever model is the least cold will happen.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
15 January 2019 11:20:47

Time to roll out my yearly advice. Stick to 5 day Fax Charts....for your mental state, go no further!

I'm walking in the Lakes Friday and Saturday and the MetO Fax Charts are showing me bright, dry, frosty weather. Perfect. I'm hoping the front coming south on Wednesday night will give a dusting to the tops 👍

Originally Posted by: Crepuscular Ray 


Even that can be bad for your mental state when the UKMO is the only model to go for cold and the FAX charts reflect that and the UKMO is inevitably wrong.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
DPower
15 January 2019 11:27:46


 


It isn't. Not if you look at the ensembles and ignore the far reaches that only it shows. If you stick to T+240 and the ensembles it has been quite consistent and no more inconsistent than the other models in the same time frame and if we do not get decent snow and cold next week it will have been the model that hinted at the problem with the ridging of the Azores HP first. With GFS coming out every 6 hours and quoting in the distant unreliable frame it always appears that way. It just comes under more scrutiny when people are looking at possible cold. It is a case of if you say it enough people will believe it and there is too much of that going on these days!


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


The link I have posted should explain why I think your reasoning is wrong.

Brian Gaze
15 January 2019 11:28:59

Ultra blocking showing up quite widely in the GEFS06z. Looks like a big shift, but don't know whether 850s will reflect it.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
tallyho_83
15 January 2019 11:30:27


Move away from the 'black hole low' today in the models. Seems like there is a desire to keep HP lingering over the UK next week. So below average temperatures definitely on the cards. Snow watchers are going to be disappointed by the outlook though.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


So low pressure systems toppling over our HP and going straight into central Europe to give the Alps more snow that they don't need!


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Saint Snow
15 January 2019 11:31:31


Ultra blocking showing up quite widely in the GEFS06z. Looks like a big shift, but don't know whether 850s will reflect it.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


 


Where's the blocking located, though?


 


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Brian Gaze
15 January 2019 11:32:17


Where's the blocking located, though?


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


 


To the north generally. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Brian Gaze
15 January 2019 11:39:26

Here are the GEFS06z (that's the earliest they've ever appeared on TWO).



 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
tallyho_83
15 January 2019 11:39:31

yesterdays 12z para:



Today's 06z PARA



Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


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