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Gandalf The White
14 March 2020 11:08:08


 


All I will say is that COVID-19 is not SARS. Work done by German epidemioligists demonstrate that COVID-19 has a "shed rate" 1,000 times that of SARS - that means everyone who catches it, will infect others.


P.S.


http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/03/study-highlights-ease-spread-covid-19-viruses


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Well, in terms of its structure it is SARS, because its official name is SARS-Cov2


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Gavin D
14 March 2020 11:09:02

Gandalf The White
14 March 2020 11:10:04


 


You are correct, but to be pedantic this is SARS II. The official name of the virus is Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). The disease it causes is called COVID-19.


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


Exactly - it attacks the same part of the body; less deadly but more readily transmissible.


I guess we should be very grateful it isn't as deadly AND more transmissible.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Brian Gaze
14 March 2020 11:12:17


 


Well, in terms of its structure it is SARS, because its official name is SARS-Cov2


 


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


True! I think we're not using that name generally because many people would drop dead from fear before even getting close to the virus. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
xioni2
14 March 2020 11:12:47


Lots of discussion about the "second wave". First reference I encountered from a sane source:


Then — or so the theory goes — enough people will have acquired resistance to Covid-19 to avoid a second wave of disease next autumn or winter. Downing Street believes that other countries that have taken draconian action now will be vulnerable later in the year.


https://www.ft.com/content/0475f450-654f-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6a68


 

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Yes, there was some briefing to journos to that effect on Thursday. I suspect that was coming from politicians or SPADs and not from scientists, but I don't know.


 

westv
14 March 2020 11:16:19

Jet2 have now cancelled all flights to Spain and its islands.


At least it will be mild!
xioni2
14 March 2020 11:18:37

Two very different viruses though and also medicine back then was almost non existent. How well could they fight pneumonia back then? This below, btw, is a classic example of the HMG's briefing to journos!


 





Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

doctormog
14 March 2020 11:19:42

So did the CMO and CSO say what has been claimed or not?


Gavin D
14 March 2020 11:20:21
Apple are closing ALL retail stores outside of Greater China until March 27th

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/03/apples-covid-19-response/ 
Heavy Weather 2013
14 March 2020 11:20:28
22 additional cases in Wales
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Gandalf The White
14 March 2020 11:21:39
It's interesting how the widely differing views in here have begun to coalesce (mostly) around the key points:

1. Trying to keep SARS-Cov2 out forever was always impossible
2. Once a novel virus gets into circulation you can't put the genie back in the bottle; ever.
3. Measures taken have to be commensurate with the prevailing level of risk
4. There is no cavalry riding into view: a vaccine is likely at least a year away and we have will have to ride the next winter season
5. Only herd immunity acquired by catching Covid-19 is going to work until there's a vaccine.
6. We have to do our best to protect vulnerable groups whilst building the herd immunity
7. It's likely that there will be further waves (subject to vaccine availability) and the more you suppress the first wave the more people will be vulnerable to later ones.
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Gavin D
14 March 2020 11:21:51
Public Health Wales have announced 22 more people have tested positive for COVID-19

Total confirmed cases in Wales now 60
Gandalf The White
14 March 2020 11:23:33


Two very different viruses though and also medicine back then was almost non existent. How well could they fight pneumonia back then?


 


 


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


Antibiotics weren't widely available until after World War 2.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


doctormog
14 March 2020 11:28:18

It's interesting how the widely differing views in here have begun to coalesce (mostly) around the key points:

1. Trying to keep SARS-Cov2 out forever was always impossible
2. Once a novel virus gets into circulation you can't put the genie back in the bottle; ever.
3. Measures taken have to be commensurate with the prevailing level of risk
4. There is no cavalry riding into view: a vaccine is likely at least a year away and we have will have to ride the next winter season
5. Only herd immunity acquired by catching Covid-19 is going to work until there's a vaccine.
6. We have to do our best to protect vulnerable groups whilst building the herd immunity
7. It's likely that there will be further waves (subject to vaccine availability) and the more you suppress the first wave the more people will be vulnerable to later ones.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


I would agree with all of that except for the last point which is somewhat unanswerable.


xioni2
14 March 2020 11:29:26

It's interesting how the widely differing views in here have begun to coalesce (mostly) around the key points:

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


I know you said *mostly*, but we are not there yet, dissent and scepticism are still strong here.


Rob K
14 March 2020 11:31:44


 


As I posted yesterday, all secondary schools were told by the Government on Thursday to make sure plans were in place to enable learning from home by yesterday. They were also told to send letters home to parents explaining this.


Now, whether schools have actually done it or not...


(And in the meantime, I've picked up a lovely bug from the head at my school; she was coughing all over the place during the initial meetings a week ago and now I've developed what seems like an extremely mild form of flu... shivering and sweating, cough and yes, I've spent most of the morning dozing. Not like me at all!)


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Will you be following advice and self isolating?


The headteacher at my daughter’s (primary) school emailed yesterday to say she is self isolating for a week due to “heavy cold symptoms” although she is fairly sure she doesn’t have Covid-19.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Devonian
14 March 2020 11:35:14

It's interesting how the widely differing views in here have begun to coalesce (mostly) around the key points:

1. Trying to keep SARS-Cov2 out forever was always impossible
2. Once a novel virus gets into circulation you can't put the genie back in the bottle; ever.
3. Measures taken have to be commensurate with the prevailing level of risk
4. There is no cavalry riding into view: a vaccine is likely at least a year away and we have will have to ride the next winter season
5. Only herd immunity acquired by catching Covid-19 is going to work until there's a vaccine.
6. We have to do our best to protect vulnerable groups whilst building the herd immunity
7. It's likely that there will be further waves (subject to vaccine availability) and the more you suppress the first wave the more people will be vulnerable to later ones.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


I agree, except I don't think there is such a thing as 'herd immunity' - as it is understood anyway. If there was why didn't all the people (adults) who were immune to measles, pre vaccines, not protect those that hadn't had it (children)? Each one of us will either be immune/over it or still to catch it.


Though I guess that is kind of implied in your point 7.

Brian Gaze
14 March 2020 11:35:35


The headteacher at my daughter’s (primary) school emailed yesterday to say she is self isolating for a week due to “heavy cold symptoms” although she is fairly sure she doesn’t have Covid-19.


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


My wife and I both returned from Finland with colds. The issues with self isolation quickly become obvious. We needed to buy food and getting online delivery wasn't possible for another week.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Gooner
14 March 2020 11:37:16

As a company we are in a nightmare situation with regards staff coughing 


Advice is don't run to the doctors - 7 day self isolate 


We'd have no one at work if we followed that advice 


 


Rock and a hard place 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Roger Parsons
14 March 2020 11:39:02


 


I am interested in your definition of "vector", CC. It usually has a specific meaning in epidemiology - a "third party species" or other mechanism responsible for the transmission of an "agent" that infects a "host". Like a mosquito in the transmission of malaria to humans. Another relevant concept is that of a "reservoir", which is an alternative host species - the "reservoir host" in which the agent can survive. This was something that was raised as a possibility issue in the early stages of this pandemic but that question has gone quiet.


Of course a "super spreader" could loosely be termed a vector, but in that looser sense every infected person who infects another would count as a vector. The reason to be clear on this is we are still learning about the transmission of Covid-19 and may yet turn up other potential hosts - pigs or domestic species for example - or true "vector species" we have not yet considered - perish the thought.


The word "herd" is being used in our discussions, and it has a certain charm - not least because our local GPs use the expression "Vaccinate the whole herd" when doing the 'flu vaccinations!


Roger


Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons 


p.s.


I hope you noted the above post, CC, as I am still interested in your interpretation of the word "vector".


WRT Reservoir hosts - may I refer you to the following EDC SARS-CoV paper - Jan 2020. Some interesting history.


https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/factsheet-health-professionals-coronaviruses


R.


RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
xioni2
14 March 2020 11:42:48

I spoke to my sister this morning and Greece is taking such a different approach from here. Even though their number of known cases and deaths is still low, they have now closed malls, big stores, restaurants, cafes, bars, clubs, cinemas, theatres, gyms, museums, hair salons, playgrounds, brothels, you name it. Only takeaway/delivery outlets, supermarkets and pharmacies remain open but with restrictions on the numbers of people allowed inside (only 2 at a time in a chemist etc.). All sporting and cultural events have been cancelled.


They are terrified of the possible impact on their NHS, which has been devastated after the 10-year crisis. It sounds like an extreme reaction to me, but I just don't know. My sister is gobsmacked by HMG's reaction here and she says we are too complacent and are taking a huge gamble. She joked that I should get out now, while there is still time.


 

Chidog
14 March 2020 11:42:55

Whether the UK approach is right or not they are going to have to have balls of steel to maintain it, because in a few weeks time when other countries are over the first wave and we are in the midst of it, mass civil unrest is possible

Rob K
14 March 2020 11:43:04


As a company we are in a nightmare situation with regards staff coughing 


Advice is don't run to the doctors - 7 day self isolate 


We'd have no one at work if we followed that advice 


 


Rock and a hard place 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Agree, it’s so hard to make a decision. For the past few days, on and off, I’ve had a very mild sore throat and a bit of a cough but nothing I would think twice about normally. It’s about the limit of what I normally get with a cold - I usually seem to get a very mild version when everyone around me gets a cold: I have a day or two with a bit of a tickle in the throat and then it disappears. Maybe once every year or two I get a proper full-blown man-flu episode but generally colds seem to pass me by. Based on my previous office half the staff would have to self-isolate at this time of year!


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Gandalf The White
14 March 2020 11:43:14


 


I would agree with all of that except for the last point which is somewhat unanswerable.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Thanks. I did try to qualify the last point by saying 'likely' and not 'certain' but I accept your point.  


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


xioni2
14 March 2020 11:50:52


 My wife and I both returned from Finland with colds. The issues with self isolation quickly become obvious. We needed to buy food and getting online delivery wasn't possible for another week.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


If you believe my neighbour retired virologist, then for the duration of your colds, you are very unlikely to get Covid-19. She has explained that 2 different cold viruses can co-exist, but that is very unlikely for a SARS virus and a cold virus.


 

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